Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

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RadicalRadial
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Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by RadicalRadial » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:11 pm

A friend of a friend ended up getting himself a DUI. He unfortunately for himself, was trying to advance his career in the aviation industry as a pilot at the time.

He's a good guy and it was a genuine mistake on his part... Not that it matters in the big picture, it was still a bonehead/asshole move.

He is wondering if there is any chance on getting on with AC or WJ once the 5 year wait is up and he is able to get a pardon for is stupidity. Will they consider his mistakes and give him a chance? Or did he write off any chance he ever had at a at flying for the big guys?

If it helps, he has a great reputation as a pilot and plenty of powerful references, a business diploma and no prior convictions. It was a true mistake but again, on paper, mistake or not a DUI is a DUI.

What sort of info can you all shed on this?

If you are going to refer me to the search function, do us both a favor by saving both our time and hit the back button instead please.
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altiplano
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by altiplano » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:03 am

I believe the question is to the extent of:

"Have you been convicted of a crime for which a pardon has not been granted?"

It's essentially as if it didn't happen once the pardon goes through. They can't ask, and you don't have to answer.

Also, stay out of the USA until the pardon is granted.

The Americans will get the conviction in their system if you go, and they won't recognize a subsequent Canadian pardon, you will always be a convicted criminal in their system. Your life will be made difficult dealing with expensive waivers to go unrestricted to the US for work the rest of your career.
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iflyroads
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by iflyroads » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:10 am

I believe this is like having an accident or incident. We all make mistakes. Important thing is be honest about it and try to learn from it. If you say he's genuinely that good of a guy then I'm sure any major would be happy to have him.

Good luck!
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edmanster
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by edmanster » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:36 am

In the past (not sure now) - it was required by some operators to bring in a Driver's Record Summary. This was an official record of the past 10 years driving experience. It listed all speeding tickets, warnings & accidents. It can be obtained from the provincial Transportation office. In my opinion .. if someone has a good assortment of speeding tickets - there is a good probability he will be driving excessively air-side between the aircraft. BTW .. if you have a clean record - attaching a copy to the resume would go a long way in showing an individuals character.
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dialdriver
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by dialdriver » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:46 am

iflyroads wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:10 am
I believe this is like having an accident or incident. We all make mistakes. Important thing is be honest about it and try to learn from it. If you say he's genuinely that good of a guy then I'm sure any major would be happy to have him.

Good luck!
Do not even go there! You have a pardon, the issue is off the table. The conviction does not exist. The employer is not allowed to discuss it even.

Find a better example.
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Blueontop
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by Blueontop » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:39 am

altiplano wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:03 am
I believe the question is to the extent of:

"Have you been convicted of a crime for which a pardon has not been granted?"

It's essentially as if it didn't happen once the pardon goes through. They can't ask, and you don't have to answer.

Also, stay out of the USA until the pardon is granted.

The Americans will get the conviction in their system if you go, and they won't recognize a subsequent Canadian pardon, you will always be a convicted criminal in their system. Your life will be made difficult dealing with expensive waivers to go unrestricted to the US for work the rest of your career.
DUI is NOT considered a crime of moral turpitude in the US system. It will NOT be grounds for inadmissibility when crossing. Having said that it has the potential to cause delays when crossing and potential inadmissibility issues crossing other international borders.
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digits_
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by digits_ » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:34 am

Blueontop wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:39 am
Having said that it has the potential to cause delays when crossing and potential inadmissibility issues crossing other international borders.
Which borders? I know quite a few people who have had the European equivalent of a DUI and none of them had ever had problems while travelling.
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DanWEC
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by DanWEC » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:34 am

The US has a specific exclusion preventing denial at the border because of a DUI in Canada, so you're safe- for now.
The problem is it's just a policy, and could disappear or change at any moment. We criminalized DUI's maybe 10 years ago, and we assess foreign convictions according to our own code, so that made it difficult for many Americans to enter. Just ask the NWO fly-in camps how it affected their business!

Once a record suspension (previously called a Pardon) is granted, your criminal record is effectively wiped and you don't have to ever mention it. The only people that have access is the RCMP through a special warrant that would only happen if you got arrested and subsequently charged with something more than a minor offence. Another DUI cancels it as well.

As Altiplano said, avoid the States until the record is cleared, because once you cross and they import your record into their system it's their forever, and could potentially cause embarassment or issues at the border. Some people will say that it's in the shared reciprocal database already, but that's not true- only people on watch lists, and the regular population with indictable offences, and the US equivalent felonies are on there.

Any questions just PM me. I'm not a lawyer, but I had a stint working HTA and traffic offences quite a while ago, and still keep up to date on the procedures.
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Blueontop
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by Blueontop » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:36 pm

digits_ wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:34 am
Blueontop wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:39 am
Having said that it has the potential to cause delays when crossing and potential inadmissibility issues crossing other international borders.
Which borders? I know quite a few people who have had the European equivalent of a DUI and none of them had ever had problems while travelling.
I do not know exactly which ones (albeit possibly none I’ll admit), hence why I simply stated it only had the potential to cause admissibility issues. :D
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altiplano
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by altiplano » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:36 pm

Blueontop wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:39 am
altiplano wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:03 am
I believe the question is to the extent of:

"Have you been convicted of a crime for which a pardon has not been granted?"

It's essentially as if it didn't happen once the pardon goes through. They can't ask, and you don't have to answer.

Also, stay out of the USA until the pardon is granted.

The Americans will get the conviction in their system if you go, and they won't recognize a subsequent Canadian pardon, you will always be a convicted criminal in their system. Your life will be made difficult dealing with expensive waivers to go unrestricted to the US for work the rest of your career.
DUI is NOT considered a crime of moral turpitude in the US system. It will NOT be grounds for inadmissibility when crossing. Having said that it has the potential to cause delays when crossing and potential inadmissibility issues crossing other international borders.
Wrong. It absolutely has the potential make difficulties for you, not necessarily make you inadmissable, but potentially, but either way it will bring difficulties... the waiver solves those difficulties.

Do you want to deal with that? Just stay out of the States for 5 years... keep it off their system.
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Blueontop
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by Blueontop » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:45 pm

altiplano wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:36 pm
Blueontop wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:39 am
altiplano wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:03 am
I believe the question is to the extent of:

"Have you been convicted of a crime for which a pardon has not been granted?"

It's essentially as if it didn't happen once the pardon goes through. They can't ask, and you don't have to answer.

Also, stay out of the USA until the pardon is granted.

The Americans will get the conviction in their system if you go, and they won't recognize a subsequent Canadian pardon, you will always be a convicted criminal in their system. Your life will be made difficult dealing with expensive waivers to go unrestricted to the US for work the rest of your career.
DUI is NOT considered a crime of moral turpitude in the US system. It will NOT be grounds for inadmissibility when crossing. Having said that it has the potential to cause delays when crossing and potential inadmissibility issues crossing other international borders.
Wrong. It absolutely has the potential make difficulties for you, not necessarily make you inadmissable, but potentially, but either way it will bring difficulties... the waiver solves those difficulties.

Do you want to deal with that? Just stay out of the States for 5 years... keep it off their system.
That’s exactly what I said so how’s it wrong?. :| :rolleyes:
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altiplano
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by altiplano » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:43 pm

It's a crime. It can make you inadmissable depending on the day, and at the least can make it difficult.

Anyway, maybe I read you wrong. I standby my first post. Cheers.
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RadicalRadial
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by RadicalRadial » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:15 pm

Thanks for the replies.

It's too bad most of the Flight Safety courses take place in the states for the mean time.
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by privateer » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:59 pm

Apparently in the US they are more interested in your marijuana stocks.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cannabi ... waiver-to/
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Tailwheelup
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by Tailwheelup » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:41 pm

The above posts contain a lot of speculation and false information.

1. The United States (U.S.) does not deny entry to persons that has a "Driving Under the Influence" (DUI) conviction.
That's it. Period. If you have other convictions or other "history" that is another story. But assuming its a single Canadian DUI
it is not going to stop you entering the USA absent the discretionary power of the agent at the border to take an instant dislike and declare you inadmissible.

You may or may not be asked the question if you cross the USA. What is needed is a copy of "the court records". An open and honest approach will generally not see a problem however, they specifically "understate" questions that specifically ask questions to invite a false no answer.

Airlines, The USA is perhaps one of the few countries where an airline pilot was caught flying a domestic flight, got convicted, did time in jail, did a recovery program and went back to flying for a living with the same airline. The story is on youtube.

The FAA and airline attitude is they want to see a recovery program, and evidence, that a repetition is unlikely to occur.

I don't recall ever reading of a similar policy by a Canadian Airline or Transport Canada. The "full disclosure" should contain a professional opinion on recovery and future risks. It might be well to include references to the FAA program and their findings.

Perhaps it is time for TC and Canada to take a look at drinking and flying as it does occur and we very rarely ever hear about it. TC appear to place the responsibility on the operators and that is not going to work in the long term. Something much better is called for.
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tps8903
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by tps8903 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:07 pm

altiplano wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:03 am
I believe the question is to the extent of:

"Have you been convicted of a crime for which a pardon has not been granted?"

It's essentially as if it didn't happen once the pardon goes through. They can't ask, and you don't have to answer.

Also, stay out of the USA until the pardon is granted.

The Americans will get the conviction in their system if you go, and they won't recognize a subsequent Canadian pardon, you will always be a convicted criminal in their system. Your life will be made difficult dealing with expensive waivers to go unrestricted to the US for work the rest of your career.
Hit the nail on the head.

Pardon means it does not have to be disclosed to anyone, erased from your record. Even police agencies can't see it anymore.

Do not enter the USA until you have a pardon. If you get refused entry due to a conviction there is no pardon for that. Everytime you go to the USA you will have to declare that you have been refused entry before. It will stay on their system. It could seriously jeopardize your employment if you can't enter the USA as a pilot.
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tps8903
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by tps8903 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:09 pm

Tailwheelup wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:41 pm
The above posts contain a lot of speculation and false information.

1. The United States (U.S.) does not deny entry to persons that has a "Driving Under the Influence" (DUI) conviction.
That's it. Period.
You are 100% incorrect about that. They can, and they do.
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tps8903
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by tps8903 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:13 pm

tps8903 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:09 pm
Tailwheelup wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:41 pm
The above posts contain a lot of speculation and false information.

1. The United States (U.S.) does not deny entry to persons that has a "Driving Under the Influence" (DUI) conviction.
That's it. Period.
You are 100% incorrect about that. They can, and they do.

You can read INS s.212 for details.
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altiplano
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by altiplano » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:05 pm

Don't push it is the point!

Might depend on who you get... might depend on you... why risk it?

You might not get denied, but you don't want the chance it might be left hanging over you.

Wait until you're pardoned, don't risk it.
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tps8903
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Re: Do the majors even consider a loser with a pardoned DUI?

Post by tps8903 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:20 am

altiplano wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:05 pm
Don't push it is the point!

Might depend on who you get... might depend on you... why risk it?

You might not get denied, but you don't want the chance it might be left hanging over you.

Wait until you're pardoned, don't risk it.
+1
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