• Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Posted: **Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:12 pm**

altiplano wrote: ↑Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:05 pm Good discussion. But I'm having a hard time understanding how you get to $300K without OT at under $200/hr...
I think we're getting away from a base comparison if you want to start adding per diems and OT...
I mean AC has OT too, 1.5-2.5x depending, good per diems - esp overseas, stock match, pension, profit share, good benefits paid by employer... how much does family dental & extended health cost at TS or SW? Disability? etc...
As has been mentioned, for those inclined... there are some 320 FOs doing +200K, some LCC CAs doing +400K, the motivated can do it, or close to...

It's not always about money, I know many corporate pilots that earn a ton, but are away 25 days a month. Everyone knows that AC probably has the best deal in Canada. They also pay new pilots probably by far the lowest mainline wage in the world.

Nothing to be too proud of there. Just a big fish in a small pond that throws its weight around far too much.

Posted: **Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:15 pm**

I mean AC has OT too, 1.5-2.5x depending, good per diems - esp overseas, stock match, pension, profit share, good benefits paid by employer... how much does family dental & extended health cost at TS or SW? Disability? etc...

Air Transat pay dental and health costs and the short term disability. We pay the long term disability. I think we get net 66% of our gross salary during 10 years (and as a backup I pay for a private LoL insurance that covers 500k). They pay for all expenses related to the job, passport, medical, uniform cleaning, etc., moving expenses to another base (and hotel, notary, lease cancellation, public utilities, etc.), we get meal on board.
Pension: I put 5% of my salary in my RRSP and they put 7%. Plus Profit share at the end of the year.
Work environment is excellent (I had the same feeling at Sunwing - but not at Jazz; which is I suppose like AC) we’re not just a number and I am not afraid to call my chief pilot or any supervisor at 2 am if needed. Very nice people here. Of course it's not all perfect and some things need to be improved, but would I leave to go to AC for just very few extra bucks on the hourly rate and few extra benefits? no, sorry but it's not worth it. However I would probably leave for AA or the likes

I have the feeling TS is moving to the right direction, a lot of positive energy at the main office.

Posted: **Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:56 am**

altiplano wrote: ↑Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:05 pm Good discussion. But I'm having a hard time understanding how you get to $300K without OT at under $200/hr...

Pay goes to just over $200/hr next year for Captains. Add in natural block growth due to de-icing, delays, etc you're now probably close to $210,000. If you go over 90 hours per month, now that's paid at time an a half, which is easy to do in the winter. I budget $5000 per year for per-diems, so now you're at $215,000. So, that would be my guess at a BASE salary for a top-scale Captain, with no OT, working 15ish days/month in the winter, and 5-10 in the summer.

Now, add in a 6 month deployment to Europe and now you're close to $250,000 (The company pays for your flights to get you and your family there and back, an apartment and rental car while you're there). If you're a training Captain, add in that extra income and you could be close to $300,000 without doing a day of OT.

To get close to $400,000, you'd need to Deploy for 6 months, maybe do a summer domestic deployment, do the long pairings that get the most per-diems, be a training Captain and do a lot of OT. It's doable, but you're away from home a lot. Some guys don't even have a permanent home.. they just go 6 months in Europe and 6 months deployed in Canada, with all lodging and cars paid for by the company.

Posted: **Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:22 pm**

DHC-1 Jockey wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:56 am
altiplano wrote: ↑Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:05 pm Good discussion. But I'm having a hard time understanding how you get to $300K without OT at under $200/hr...
Pay goes to just over $200/hr next year for Captains. Add in natural block growth due to de-icing, delays, etc you're now probably close to $210,000. If you go over 90 hours per month, now that's paid at time an a half, which is easy to do in the winter. I budget $5000 per year for per-diems, so now you're at $215,000. So, that would be my guess at a BASE salary for a top-scale Captain, with no OT, working 15ish days/month in the winter, and 5-10 in the summer.

Now, add in a 6 month deployment to Europe and now you're close to $250,000 (The company pays for your flights to get you and your family there and back, an apartment and rental car while you're there). If you're a training Captain, add in that extra income and you could be close to $300,000 without doing a day of OT.

To get close to $400,000, you'd need to Deploy for 6 months, maybe do a summer domestic deployment, do the long pairings that get the most per-diems, be a training Captain and do a lot of OT. It's doable, but you're away from home a lot. Some guys don't even have a permanent home.. they just go 6 months in Europe and 6 months deployed in Canada, with all lodging and cars paid for by the company.

Thanks. So $210K for a top scale Captain doing up to 90 hours/month, 10-15 days per month...

To get to $300K - 90 hours+/month, Training Captain uplift, included living expenses to be away from home 6 months/year, and per diems...

Not knocking either, but it doesn't sound like the "normal" situation for the "good proportion" of Captains as was stated. Not knocking it, $200-300K is very good and I wouldn't be looking to go to the bottom of any list either... just trying get actual comparable situations.

Posted: **Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:38 pm**

Everyone at SWG makes more than their posted salary. The nature of our business means being super busy a few months a year. For the couple busy months it’s common to be blocked at over 100hrs in the original sched. So “forced OT” I guess you could say.

Posted: **Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:56 pm**

altiplano wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:22 pm Not knocking either, but it doesn't sound like the "normal" situation for the "good proportion" of Captains as was stated. Not knocking it, $200-300K is very good and I wouldn't be looking to go to the bottom of any list either... just trying get actual comparable situations.

In fact, $215,000-$250,000 would be considered “normal” for a top captain I would think.

Deployments to Europe are very popular due to the per-diems and different type of flying, and this year I couldn’t even hold a deployment. So I stayed in Canada and worked 5 days per month.

No complaints!

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:00 am**

No, not everyone wants to work at Air Canada. Hard to believe eh? I wouldn't mind the pay cheque and benefits of the wide body captains but the type of flying isn't for a lot of us. I have a good book at home about a bush pilot that ended up going into the airlines in his 40s and became Captain on the 747, which was a brand new airplane at the time. His airline flying is described in the last PARAGRAPH of the book.

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:44 am**

pilotidentity wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:00 am His airline flying is described in the last PARAGRAPH of the book.

Perfect. Uneventful. Easy. Enjoy the rest of your life.

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:54 am**

altiplano wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:44 am [quote=pilotidentity post_id=<a href="tel:1061832">1061832</a> time=<a href="tel:1544598027">1544598027</a> user_id=29211]
His airline flying is described in the last PARAGRAPH of the book.

Perfect. Uneventful. Easy. Enjoy the rest of your life.
[/quote]

As I enter my 40s, I find I identify far more with “uneventful”. In the words of Danny Glover, “I’m getting too old for this s***.”

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:09 pm**

Ha ha, that about sums it up. I hear yeah

Posted: **Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:26 am**

Recently dropped my resume online-is anyone else having issues receiving the email that’s supposed to tell you if the application has been received successfully or not? Just sent an email to Tech. What is the newest hiring outlook at AC? Are they still running GS I definitely for the forseable future?

Posted: **Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:40 am**

I can't help with the tech question. As far as hiring is concerned, yes, the plan is to continue running courses. The last bid (which was forward looking 12 months) showed 400+ vacancies. I've also heard unsubstantiated rumours of an additional 300 or so needed to accomodate for the incoming duty regulations.

Good luck

Posted: **Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:34 am**

Sunwing is a place where after a few years, you could make/work as much or as little as you want. They're pilot's junior to me, that make way more then I do. Also when you deploy it's tax free cash, that's why they're so popular. I'm not knocking AC or WJ. I don't really know much about Transat. If you average out dollar for dollar and days worked, I think SWG is the best Canadian NB gig going these days.

Posted: **Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:42 pm**

: payrates.JPG (339.4 KiB) Viewed 2601 times

I think there are 2-3 WJ (not including Encore), SW and TA pilots in every AC ground school but barely any leaving AC - The WJ/SW/TA ones that I have spoken with say that it's the potential of greater pay/pension and greater job security that attracts them to AC. It's not how you start but how you finish!

Posted: **Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:58 pm**

Looks like you only have that "potential" at AC if you're WB skipper though. If you end up 320 your whole time there for example. Top rate at AC, SW, and AT are within a dollar or two. So the question is, are you willing wait (and in some cases young enough) to think you'll see top tier left seat on the 777 for the last few years of your career.

Posted: **Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:30 pm**

I posted this a year or so ago on OTS thread

First Jan 2018 GS had the following composition roughly - I'm guessing the WJ,SW,TA components vary a little school to school but not much, the only larger employer missing was Cargojet
- 3 porter
- 1 corporate
- 5 Encore
- 1 WJ
- 15 Jazz
- 2 Air Transat
- 4 SKY
- 2 Sunwing
- 3 GGN
- 1 Morningstar
- 1 exMilitary

Posted: **Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:10 pm**

Why do people include per diems as part of their Salary?

They are employer reimbursement for unspecified,work related,out of pocket expenses.
And CRA does not consider them salary. Check yout T4s.

The sense I get it is similar to asking someone the temperature and they include the wind chill .sounds more impressive than it is.

As far as overseas work, keep in mind tax rates. During my time overseas, my pay had a total of 17% in deductions, including full medical, insurance, pension savings,and taxes...less than half of what a Canadian pilot at the top end gets hit with, and equates to tens of thousands a year more in the bank. As well as subsidized housing, private world class schools for the kids, longer holidays.

Canadian pilots do not get top wages except at the very upper end of the pay senority list and a huge chunk of that is taxed at 43% or so.

Posted: **Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:29 am**

trey kule wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:10 pm The sense I get it is similar to asking someone the temperature and they include the wind chill .sounds more impressive than it is.

Or, because it reflects an increased rate of heat loss, it gives you a more accurate description of just how much being in the elements is going to suck.

I don't think people include per diems as salary. It is however an important part of the compensation package and some companies do it better than others. Nothing wrong with it being a consideration when it comes to employment opportunities.

Posted: **Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:18 pm**

shimmydampner wrote: ↑Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:29 am
trey kule wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:10 pm The sense I get it is similar to asking someone the temperature and they include the wind chill .sounds more impressive than it is.
Or, because it reflects an increased rate of heat loss, it gives you a more accurate description of just how much being in the elements is going to suck.

I don't think people include per diems as salary. It is however an important part of the compensation package and some companies do it better than others. Nothing wrong with it being a consideration when it comes to employment opportunities.

Exactly. If you get $50k in per diems a year compared to $3k tax Free, it most certainly makes a difference.

Just as if overtime is readily available or only goes to the top guys. It all has a hand to play in what makes a company

Posted: **Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:43 pm**

Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?