Single IFR in BC

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AirDoan
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Single IFR in BC

Post by AirDoan » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:38 pm

Question for you aviation deities.

I'm a 750 hour (and going up quickly) pilot working a skydive gig right now, and spent a year doing pipelines in Alberta. Tonnes of PIC and Cross Country for my level of TT. I've been working on my Group 1 the last year but hit a snag. I got my Multi VFR done, but am running too low on funds to complete the IFR in the Multi. But I should be able to at least get the Group 3 done in September. Are there many BC jobs (or commutable) that I might have a shot at at the end of this season?

My former CP who has also run several flight schools in the past, suggested I should be able to find something along these lines and could potentially do the upgrade later if the company offered it. If not at least make enough to save up for the upgrade on my own.
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Warden
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Re: Single IFR in BC

Post by Warden » Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:09 pm

Skip the group 3. Get a group 1. It's not that much more money, and since you already have a multi engine you can do a bunch of the qualification in a single engine plane and then do the flight test in a multi. Better off saving a bit more to do the test in a multi engine plane. Flight schools might tell you that you need to do all the training in a multi, but that's not true.

It is much more valuable going forward. There are not many single engine IFR operations around, other than Bravo or ORNGE or Private Air.
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PT6-114A
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Re: Single IFR in BC

Post by PT6-114A » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:01 pm

Just do the group 3 if you get hired you will have to do a ride on the aircraft you will fly, getting you a group 1
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AirDoan
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Re: Single IFR in BC

Post by AirDoan » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:42 pm

PT6-114A wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:01 pm
Just do the group 3 if you get hired you will have to do a ride on the aircraft you will fly, getting you a group 1
That's what my former CP said exactly! So from where I am standing now, that would the most direct to my first IFR job and have someone else pay for the Group 1.

And I appreciate that it's not much more, but the school is trying to get another 10 hours multi out of me. Sad thing is I'd go elsewhere but my checkout is on a Seminole. If I goto another school it'll be the same freaking story as most have Beechcraft, Diamond or Seneca's and they will want 10 on it. I'm already pissed cause this whole thing was because of a mistake the school made with the documents I was given to study. They were wrong and by the time I figured out it wasn't me that was completely at fault with the repeat lessons, we were 10 hours in. Long story that I'm fuming over.
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Warden
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Re: Single IFR in BC

Post by Warden » Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

A piston twin is a piston twin. They don't have individual type ratings, and there is no reason why a school couldn't rent you a different plane with a simple 30 min check out.

I didn't really think of what that poster said which was get a group 3 and if you do a ride you'll get a group 1. That may be the case, but if I was back in my old role years ago when I was the one hiring pilots, TBH with a stack of resumes yours would have not even gotten a second glance with the amount of people who have multi IFR ratings and time.

You might get lucky, but everything will be working against you.
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Re: Single IFR in BC

Post by EPR » Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:03 pm

Yes, you can totally do your IFR on a single engine, and it can then be up graded to a Class 1 once your company gives you your ride on a twin engine later down the road. Flight schools will never tell you that though.
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Warden
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Re: Single IFR in BC

Post by Warden » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:02 pm

Yes, what I'm saying though is if there are two applicants of equal experience for a multi IFR job, the one with the Group 1 is most likely going to get the job offer.
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Scuderia
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Re: Single IFR in BC

Post by Scuderia » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:16 am

AirDoan wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:42 pm
I'm already pissed cause this whole thing was because of a mistake the school made with the documents I was given to study. They were wrong and by the time I figured out it wasn't me that was completely at fault with the repeat lessons, we were 10 hours in. Long story that I'm fuming over.
If the school is worth sticking around at and sees you as more than just a wallet, an honest sit-down with the CFI would hopefully yield a plan for you completing the group one that is tailored to your experience. This includes doing instrument time in a single. I did only three flights in the twin before flight test. All other flights were in a single. We had similar experience (more time and experience than a fresh CPL) when I went through my training.

Hope it works out for you. While what others have suggested with using the PPC to upgrade your group 3 to a group 1 can theoretically work, it stands to reason that a resume with a group 3 would just be thrown out at any multi-IFR gig when a pile of group 1s are there too.

Can't think of many single-engine IFR jobs in BC... Morningstar and SkyLink operate Caravans at YVR, RCMP, Tantalus... at any rate, they tend to be single pilot and prefer prior IFR experience which would probably come from being a FO on a twin.

If for some reason you need to stay with this school and they insist on milking you for all twin flights, I might suggest you go ahead and pretend you're doing a group 3. Ask for the pre-flight test to be in the twin, show your instructor you nailed it, do the flight test in the twin.
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AirDoan
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Re: Single IFR in BC

Post by AirDoan » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:08 am

Scuderia wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:16 am
AirDoan wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:42 pm
I'm already pissed cause this whole thing was because of a mistake the school made with the documents I was given to study. They were wrong and by the time I figured out it wasn't me that was completely at fault with the repeat lessons, we were 10 hours in. Long story that I'm fuming over.
If the school is worth sticking around at and sees you as more than just a wallet, an honest sit-down with the CFI would hopefully yield a plan for you completing the group one that is tailored to your experience. This includes doing instrument time in a single. I did only three flights in the twin before flight test. All other flights were in a single. We had similar experience (more time and experience than a fresh CPL) when I went through my training.

Hope it works out for you. While what others have suggested with using the PPC to upgrade your group 3 to a group 1 can theoretically work, it stands to reason that a resume with a group 3 would just be thrown out at any multi-IFR gig when a pile of group 1s are there too.

Can't think of many single-engine IFR jobs in BC... Morningstar and SkyLink operate Caravans at YVR, RCMP, Tantalus... at any rate, they tend to be single pilot and prefer prior IFR experience which would probably come from being a FO on a twin.

If for some reason you need to stay with this school and they insist on milking you for all twin flights, I might suggest you go ahead and pretend you're doing a group 3. Ask for the pre-flight test to be in the twin, show your instructor you nailed it, do the flight test in the twin.
That’s a fair reply. Also was talking to an instructor from Pro IFR that’s also a member of the flying club our drop zone is attached too. He confirmed a lot that’s been said here as well as suggesting I contact Pro with my situation and see if I can’t pop over to Vancouver for a few days/week do a sim evaluation, spend a day or two in the sim, a couple single flights including the 100 NM and then a pre test in the Duchess. I’m awaiting a reply to my inquiry. Only thing I’m worried about is that Alberta Student aid issued my loan based on the first school. So if I finish with another school they may not like that. But I’m in a spot where begging for forgiveness may be better as at least it’ll be done.

I did also reach out to the CFI at the first school but still no reply. The word is he’s not the CFI anymore but next time in town maybe I’ll try and drop in and have a sit down. Finishing with them without the extra 10 hours is plan A, the Pro IFR is plan B and your suggestion about going with the group 3 with a switch at the end will be my plan C. That’s what us pilots do right, always have an out and an alternative.
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Scuderia
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Re: Single IFR in BC

Post by Scuderia » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:18 pm

AirDoan wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:08 am
That’s a fair reply. Also was talking to an instructor from Pro IFR that’s also a member of the flying club our drop zone is attached too. He confirmed a lot that’s been said here as well as suggesting I contact Pro with my situation and see if I can’t pop over to Vancouver for a few days/week do a sim evaluation, spend a day or two in the sim, a couple single flights including the 100 NM and then a pre test in the Duchess. I’m awaiting a reply to my inquiry. Only thing I’m worried about is that Alberta Student aid issued my loan based on the first school. So if I finish with another school they may not like that. But I’m in a spot where begging for forgiveness may be better as at least it’ll be done.

I did also reach out to the CFI at the first school but still no reply. The word is he’s not the CFI anymore but next time in town maybe I’ll try and drop in and have a sit down. Finishing with them without the extra 10 hours is plan A, the Pro IFR is plan B and your suggestion about going with the group 3 with a switch at the end will be my plan C. That’s what us pilots do right, always have an out and an alternative.
Hope it works out, good stuff. You'll definitely be able to make it work, don't let them milk you for extra flights when you can consistently demonstrate competence....
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Foregone
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Re: Single IFR in BC

Post by Foregone » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:56 am

Get the group 1. I say from experience as I had the group 3 and it took me quite a while to find a job with it. And my employer didn’t cover my eventual ride for the group 1 either. I had to cover the refresher in the sim, as well as a refresher flight in a twin, before I did the upgrade ride. You will save money by taking a loan or whatever you have to do to get the group 1 now. It was my handicap- don’t let it be yours.
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