I love job requirements like these...

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redbaron
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I love job requirements like these...

Post by redbaron »

Valid ATPL or IATRA;
3,500 hours total flying time;
1,000 hours multi-engine PIC;
2,500 hours Jet PIC
Customer service-oriented;
Ability to work under pressure.
Do they proofread? Or are they really only interested in ex-Snowbirds and F-16 drivers?
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TeePeeCreeper
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by TeePeeCreeper »

redbaron wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:37 pm
Valid ATPL or IATRA;
3,500 hours total flying time;
1,000 hours multi-engine PIC;
2,500 hours Jet PIC
Customer service-oriented;
Ability to work under pressure.
Do they proofread? Or are they really only interested in ex-Snowbirds and F-16 drivers?
I see no issue with their requirements. After all they are able to ask for whatever requirements they want!

Call me old school but you come off as being entitled imho!

TPC
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telex
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by telex »

redbaron wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:37 pm
Valid ATPL or IATRA;
3,500 hours total flying time;
1,000 hours multi-engine PIC;
2,500 hours Jet PIC
Customer service-oriented;
Ability to work under pressure.
Do they proofread? Or are they really only interested in ex-Snowbirds and F-16 drivers?
Your example drivers won't have much multi PIC.
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FOD_Vacuum
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by FOD_Vacuum »

The only bogus thing about this add is saying that at 1000TT you’d be expected to be jet captain all the way until 3500 TT to log the 2500 jet pic requirement. Other then that, seems fair..
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NotDirty!
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by NotDirty! »

telex wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:46 pm
redbaron wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:37 pm
Valid ATPL or IATRA;
3,500 hours total flying time;
1,000 hours multi-engine PIC;
2,500 hours Jet PIC
Customer service-oriented;
Ability to work under pressure.
Do they proofread? Or are they really only interested in ex-Snowbirds and F-16 drivers?
Your example drivers won't have much multi PIC.
I think that was his point... looking for 2500 jet PIC but only 1000 MPIC, means someone with 1500 single engine jet PIC.
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ayseven
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by ayseven »

Ask and see what happens. They probably have somebody in mind, and need to justify their choice. This is common practice in aviation.
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digits_
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by digits_ »

It could happen theoretically. At 250 hours get into a small piston twin. At 500 multi pic go king air cpt medevac. At 1000 hours, if lucky, go jet pic for a crappy medevac operator. You might be slightly over the 3500 hours but you would be close. Round up or down the hours and you can probably match it.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship

altiplano
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by altiplano »

I think he means the 1000 mpic, but 2500 jet pic...

How many single engine jets are out there? ie.F-16 & Tutor comment.

It would be rare to see someone with 2500 jet, but only 1000 mpic, maybe you'd expect those numbers reversed.

But I think it's likely that this is just cut and paste from their insurance requirements.
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digits_
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by digits_ »

True, but I've rarely seen anyone advertise for Jet multi PIC.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship

MrAviator19
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by MrAviator19 »

It may seem a bit much in today's climate but companies can ask for whatever they want to filter out every joe blow trying to take advantage of the industry's rise in demand.

Now, what's absurd is someone asking for such requirements for a right seat on the PC-12 or King Air (I remember seeing an an ad here like that for a KA a few months ago).

MrA
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altiplano
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by altiplano »

digits_ wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:24 am
True, but I've rarely seen anyone advertise for Jet multi PIC.
Right because most of the time Jet PIC would be multi. That's why it's a strange requirement. 1000 MPIC would be inferred if you had 2500 Jet PIC, because the vast majority of jets are multis, thus the F-16/tutor comment... F-35s I guess... not a lot of jet singles, particularly in civilian roles.
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digits_
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by digits_ »

Oohh, now I see what you mean. Ok, good point, still waking up...
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship

co-joe
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by co-joe »

You'd have to be born into that experience matrix. Parent owns a Fouga or a BD10 jet.
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W5
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by W5 »

Fouga has two engines.
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TT1900
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by TT1900 »

F-18 counts as MPIC. Hawk & Tutor, if not a student, get the remaining 1500 jet PIC.

Nothing wrong with knowing what & who you want.
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co-joe
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by co-joe »

W5 wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:13 pm
Fouga has two engines.
Oh. Woops
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OneYonge
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by OneYonge »

TeePeeCreeper wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:31 pm
redbaron wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:37 pm
Valid ATPL or IATRA;
3,500 hours total flying time;
1,000 hours multi-engine PIC;
2,500 hours Jet PIC
Customer service-oriented;
Ability to work under pressure.
Do they proofread? Or are they really only interested in ex-Snowbirds and F-16 drivers?
I see no issue with their requirements. After all they are able to ask for whatever requirements they want!

Call me old school but you come off as being entitled imho!

TPC

This person thinks everyone is "entitled". "Old School" isn't the right word for a guy like this.
Sure the post was a little snarky, but it was just opening a discussion. Isn't that what the forum is for?
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Skyhunter
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by Skyhunter »

They probably are looking for an ex military guy, that matrix almost perfectly fit my flying hours when I retired from the military, a bit over 1000 hornet (MPIC), rest tutor and Hawk (Jet PIC).

They are allowed to look for that if that is what they want.
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digits_
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by digits_ »

OneYonge wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:28 pm
TeePeeCreeper wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:31 pm
redbaron wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:37 pm


Do they proofread? Or are they really only interested in ex-Snowbirds and F-16 drivers?
I see no issue with their requirements. After all they are able to ask for whatever requirements they want!

Call me old school but you come off as being entitled imho!

TPC

This person thinks everyone is "entitled". "Old School" isn't the right word for a guy like this.
Sure the post was a little snarky, but it was just opening a discussion. Isn't that what the forum is for?
It's not nice I'm tooting my own horn, but I'm going to quote Digits' first law here: "As an AvCanada discussion grows longer the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1"

But even I was flabbergasted it happened in the first reply to the opening post...
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship

OneYonge
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by OneYonge »

poor guy sounds jealous of younger folks making better decisions and getting better jobs costing them less than he did at lower hours tbh.
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planett
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by planett »

They're just minima, as long as you meet the minimum standard in each category, you don't need meet them within those proportions. Business jet jobs have required odd minima for many years. I don't think they're looking for ex-military fighter types but they don't want to exclude them either. Realistically, the job will go to someone with at least double or triple the time in some or all categories with a type rating to boot, and flew some VIPs before. Good jobs in business aviation are not yet subject to the pilot shortage.
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TeePeeCreeper
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by TeePeeCreeper »

OneYonge wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:46 pm
poor guy sounds jealous of younger folks making better decisions and getting better jobs costing them less than he did at lower hours tbh.
Oh dear, if only you knew. Jealousy isn't a factor whatsoever and you don't have a clue of my age. Both are assumptions on your part and at the end of the day we are all in this together.

I will admit that the current times are great for the next generation of aviators. (Minus what seems to be shaping up as a downturn in the financial markets.)

Why would you take offence to knowing or being reminded that some of your brethren whom came before you had to bust their arses off for what guys and gals with 500TT now take for granted? It is what it is I suppose.

All the best to you and your future endeavors.

Fly safe,
TPC
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ayseven
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by ayseven »

I am definitely the old guard, but I will say this: when you spend tens of thousands to learn to fly, wrack your brain around all the rules, be incredibly sharp on the job or else, you do tend to think somebody must owe you something. It is hard getting to the bigs during most times, even if you get a job - you either live in a city trying to live on scraps, or you get eaten by bugs (neither of these is an exaggeration, as we know). You need resiliency, and some of these kids will have a hard time with it, I think. But they will learn. I wish people would have it easy. Life can be hard.
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OneYonge
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by OneYonge »

TeePeeCreeper wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:56 pm
OneYonge wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:46 pm
poor guy sounds jealous of younger folks making better decisions and getting better jobs costing them less than he did at lower hours tbh.
Oh dear, if only you knew. Jealousy isn't a factor whatsoever and you don't have a clue of my age. Both are assumptions on your part and at the end of the day we are all in this together.

I will admit that the current times are great for the next generation of aviators. (Minus what seems to be shaping up as a downturn in the financial markets.)

Why would you take offence to knowing or being reminded that some of your brethren whom came before you had to bust their arses off for what guys and gals with 500TT now take for granted? It is what it is I suppose.

All the best to you and your future endeavors.

Fly safe,
TPC
Who’s taking offense? It is worth noting that someone out there like you exists, but so you know, noone truly cares what you think my friend. We don’t care how much you think you’ve busted your ass. That’s on you. You are welcome to assume folks you don’t know are “entitled”...it’s very telling and we clearly see you have a jealous crab mentality. Who cares if it took you 2000hrs to get somewhere somebody else took only 500hrs to do? You should be happy for them, but you sound resentful and unsupportive of it. Im so sorry this is happening to you.
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OneYonge
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Re: I love job requirements like these...

Post by OneYonge »

ayseven wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:30 am
I am definitely the old guard, but I will say this: when you spend tens of thousands to learn to fly, wrack your brain around all the rules, be incredibly sharp on the job or else, you do tend to think somebody must owe you something. It is hard getting to the bigs during most times, even if you get a job - you either live in a city trying to live on scraps, or you get eaten by bugs (neither of these is an exaggeration, as we know). You need resiliency, and some of these kids will have a hard time with it, I think. But they will learn. I wish people would have it easy. Life can be hard.
Well those people who just can’t cut it, get culled out pretty quickly don’t they. Kids have no idea, but you are right, they learn quick. If something is not for them, there are other ways to make money. Who cares? Good for them. Noone here is demanding anything. Folks are just getting info and making better decisions. Times change, and Old man feelings don’t need to get hurt that the next generation is no longer impressed by how “tough” the older generations are.
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