Canadian Work Permit + 3000hrs PIC + ATPL Subjects + ICAO Multi-engine Licence

[Hay_wire]

Hi Folks,

I hold a South African Multi-Engine CPL, Instrument Rating and Grade II Instructors Rating.
3700hrs total time, 2000hrs turbine
C208, PC12, B190, Kodiak

Majority of experience is in tourism and charter throughout Southern Africa, as well as contract in East Africa.
I also flew a medevac PC12 for 300hrs.
500hrs working in a multi-crew environment, with MCC, TCAS/ACAS, EGPWS/TAWS, and MEL endorsements.

I have contacted various training organizations in Canada about converting my licence, but all came back with different answers and requirements.

I see not all jobs require a full licence conversion, but I am limited to flying as a co-pilot.
My fear about doing the full conversion is putting that money down and not getting a job.

I'm quite happy to co-pilot, and my goal is to get to know Canada and Canadian Aviation, build multi-engine time if I can, and learn from the bottom up.
I became a pilot because I want to fly, but I am definitely not above working the ramp or in ops.
As an outdoorsy person, I am at home in rural or urban areas, and not afraid to live a basic life and put in hard hours.

I have until August 2022 to enter Canada and activate the work permit.

Any advice on where to go and how to go about starting this process?

Thanks!

[scdriver]

Hi Folks,

I hold a South African Multi-Engine CPL, Instrument Rating and Grade II Instructors Rating.
3700hrs total time, 2000hrs turbine
C208, PC12, B190, Kodiak

Majority of experience is in tourism and charter throughout Southern Africa, as well as contract in East Africa.
I also flew a medevac PC12 for 300hrs.
500hrs working in a multi-crew environment, with MCC, TCAS/ACAS, EGPWS/TAWS, and MEL endorsements.

I have contacted various training organizations in Canada about converting my licence, but all came back with different answers and requirements.

I see not all jobs require a full licence conversion, but I am limited to flying as a co-pilot.
My fear about doing the full conversion is putting that money down and not getting a job.

I'm quite happy to co-pilot, and my goal is to get to know Canada and Canadian Aviation, build multi-engine time if I can, and learn from the bottom up.
I became a pilot because I want to fly, but I am definitely not above working the ramp or in ops.
As an outdoorsy person, I am at home in rural or urban areas, and not afraid to live a basic life and put in hard hours.

I have until August 2022 to enter Canada and activate the work permit.

Any advice on where to go and how to go about starting this process?

Thanks!

Definitely will be tough right now, if you don’t mind me asking when did you get the work permit?

[fish4life]

Don’t contact training units they are their to make money. Contact Transport Canada the governing body for aviation in Canada. I personally don’t think I’ve ever heard of someone being able to fly a Canadian registered aircraft with a foreign license and at the same time being limited to co-pilot only and that sounds suspicious

[scdriver]

Don’t contact training units they are their to make money. Contact Transport Canada the governing body for aviation in Canada. I personally don’t think I’ve ever heard of someone being able to fly a Canadian registered aircraft with a foreign license and at the same time being limited to co-pilot only and that sounds suspicious

I missed that part in the op's post. To the best of my understanding you are able to fly Canadian registered aircraft with a foreign licence if you have a foreign licence validation certificate. However, those are limited to specific operations where the operator must provide an explanation as to why they can't use a Canadian pilot. Given the amount of out of work Canadian pilots rights now, it's almost certain you won't be able to get that. Perhaps the limited to co-pilot business stems from some confusion around airplanes that require a captain with ATPL but co-pilot can have a CPL with MIFR - from my understanding you do not have the equivalent licence to an ATPL.

[Hay_wire]

Hi Folks,

Thank you for your responses.

I am struggling to find reference to that "co-pilot restriction", but it was essentially a validation where, instead of being able to use it for recreational use, enabled one to fly for reward as a co-pilot.
I presume with the idea of doing the full licence conversion as and when time (and money) allows.

@scdriver, towards the end of 2019. I consider myself very fortunate that they have given me until next year to use it, due to Covid.

I contacted Transport Canada, and they responded with a link to the CARs regarding foreign licence conversions.
My take-away was I need to:
For the CPL
-CPAER exam,
-Flight test.

Instrument rating
-INRAT exam
-Flight test.

I queried writing the PSTAR, but did not get a response.

[photofly]

What do want to know about the PSTAR?

[Hay_wire]

Is it required for a CPL Conversion, or only PPL?

[photofly]

What does the webpage sent to you by Transport Canada say?

All the information you need is here:
https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/licens ... ign-pilots

[itaserb]

I'm not sure what you mean about "co-pilot" restrictions. You can convert your ATPL into Canadian CPL by passing medical, written and flight test exams. You will also have to convert your instrument rating if you're willing to fly IFR in Canada. It might take a bit longer for you to become a captain here. Seniority and COVID make it difficult. However, you can start working in one of the Air Taxi or Commuter companies and write your ATPL exams afterward. There is no flight test for ATPL from Canadian CPL however you will have to pass MIFR ride within the last 12 months. Multi PPCs count.

You can fly as a PIC with your CPL as long as that type doesn't require two crew operations. Full list is here https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-servi ... tions-cars

Again some companies may require you to have ATPL. However, no ATPL required to fly PC12 or King Air.

More links here:
https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/licens ... ign-pilots
https://www.harvsair.com/course/foreign ... onversion/

I'm not an expert in it but can answer some of your questions if you have any.

Take care.

[Hay_wire]

Thanks guys.

Some schools said I had to write the PSTAR which contradicted what I saw on the TC page, and when I asked TC, they didn't respond.
People taking a chance for a few extra bucks

Itaserb, much appreciated. Harv's Air have been one of the more helpful schools when it came to my enquiries.

Unfortunately I don't have a full ATPL yet, and I am trying hard to get one before attempting any licence conversions.
I'm 20hrs short night PIC, what a bummer!

As the IEC work permit is only good for one year (one can renew it, however), I am contemplating if it is worth my while to focus on something different, like working a dock job for a season. Ideally at a place that does float ratings and maybe I can get some float training too.
It won't help me in South Africa: no floats allowed here.
But it sure will be an epic experience.

[goldeneagle]

Some schools said I had to write the PSTAR which contradicted what I saw on the TC page, and when I asked TC, they didn't respond.
People taking a chance for a few extra bucks

I renewed an ATPL 20 years ago, after not flying for 10 years. I had to write the INRAT and do an instrument ride. When I went to the transport offices to fetch the new paperwork, they told me I had to write the PSTAR before they could issue the license. The instructors at the school where I wrote the one got quite a kick out of it, wrote the PSTAR first thing in the morning, was back at the airport by noon with an ATPL.

That was two decades ago, back when the license was a piece of paper, transport issued them at all the offices.

[itaserb]

I can see PSTAR in PPL conversion requirements not in CPL. There are currency requirements though. If you haven't flown in 5 years you will have to write a PSTAR and conduct a flight review with an instructor.

Harv's Air might be your best bet if you want to do it fast.

Can't say anything about floats, I don't even have a float rating but you try Harbour Air or Seaair out of Vancouver to work as dock crew. You can get your Seaplane rating from Air Hart in Kelowna. It's a nice school.

[matrixboy]

Hi there,

I converted my ATPL to TC ATPL last year during COVID, I think the process is somewhat applicable to your CPL too. Yes, you should do the research yourself on the TC website first before contacting those training schools.

As for me, I first registered to do the written tests with any local TC offices listed on TC website, in my case they were 3 tests, SAMRA, SARON, INRAT. To successfully pass those tests, you may need help from those courses provided by those training schools or you could just research on what kind of books that you need and study them yourself. I did study by myself tho.

After that, you will have to conduct a flight test, do so on a real airplane or a full-flight simulator. What you actually need is a training institute that can provide you an Examiner/ Instructor, I did my flight training with CAE in Toronto on an A320 Simulator.

Hope this helps.