Need help researching companies

[permarampy]

I am hoping I can get some info on a few good companies that a pilot can stay with for their career.

I have 4400 hrs and 1000+ 2 crew, multi turbine PIC. I have zero interest in “building time”. I am not interested in building time at Jazz or Encore to move up to the heavy metal. I am looking for a good company to stay with until retirement. I understand that most of the jobs are up north, and this is fine providing the compensation justifies it (I have no interest in living in Toronto or “Bring Cash”). I am hoping to find a company that wants to retain skilled pilots, and not simply train them for the regional airlines. I am looking for a company that is making enough that they have no need to replace certified AMEs with apprentices over a couple of dollars an hour. I realize this is a tall order, but I know these company’s exist (a good indicator would be places where there are a group of guys who have been there for a while).

I have no issue with signing a bond, provided it is not there to keep a pilot in poor (or dangerous) working conditions. I look at this as a scale. If you want to make good money, you are going to have to put up with living and working in interesting places. If you want more days off, you have to work longer hours. This is part of life.

Any information you can give me would be appreciated. Safety, maintenance, management, salary (I count all pay and benefits).

You can also private message me if you think that’s best.

Thanks in advance.

[CYERCaptainPooping]

Do you want to marry your employer? This reads like a profile off Christian mingle!

[permarampy]

Like Pretty Woman. No more prostituting myself for hours. You are right though. Aviation jobs are far too much like a marriage. Prenups (or in some cases dowries). Abusive relationships, treated like property. I'm just trying to break the cycle.

[co-joe]

I don't think that exists outside of a few select companies. Other than the airlines life pretty much sucks in this country.

[greygoose]

PM'd you.

[flying4dollars]

I am hoping I can get some info on a few good companies that a pilot can stay with for their career.

I have 4400 hrs and 1000+ 2 crew, multi turbine PIC. I have zero interest in “building time”. I am not interested in building time at Jazz or Encore to move up to the heavy metal. I am looking for a good company to stay with until retirement. I understand that most of the jobs are up north, and this is fine providing the compensation justifies it (I have no interest in living in Toronto or “Bring Cash”). I am hoping to find a company that wants to retain skilled pilots, and not simply train them for the regional airlines. I am looking for a company that is making enough that they have no need to replace certified AMEs with apprentices over a couple of dollars an hour. I realize this is a tall order, but I know these company’s exist (a good indicator would be places where there are a group of guys who have been there for a while).

I have no issue with signing a bond, provided it is not there to keep a pilot in poor (or dangerous) working conditions. I look at this as a scale. If you want to make good money, you are going to have to put up with living and working in interesting places. If you want more days off, you have to work longer hours. This is part of life.

Any information you can give me would be appreciated. Safety, maintenance, management, salary (I count all pay and benefits).

You can also private message me if you think that’s best.

Thanks in advance.

What salary range are you looking for? Flair offers bases in YEG, YKF, and YOW (all areas you did not say you want to avoid). Jazz long term could be a career and have a YYC base. Otherwise, corporate might be something to consider if you don't care about time building. There's corporate in YYC, YHZ and others I'm sure. Check pilot career center.

[Bede]

I don't think that exists outside of a few select companies. Other than the airlines life pretty much sucks in this country.

That's nonsense. There's a lot of decent 604, 703 outfits in Canada. It's just that they fly under the radar because they have low turn over and attract long term employees. Every one has heard of CMA, Perimeter, etc. because a lot of pilots have passed through them.

OP,
How about you look at the TC Aircraft Registry and look at airplanes that you want to fly. From there, start researching the one's you've never heard of and that may narrow your search.

[permarampy]

To: Flying for dollars

I think with corporate you have to know someone at the company, and they can have problems with layoffs if ANYTHING goes wrong. Also I may have a very long wait to upgrade to a reasonable salary. Jobs in YHZ are like a virgin stewie, they might exist, but not for long. Before Covid, the main 705’s in this country seem to be more interested in the younger crowd, and until we have our Buffalo moment, this probably hasn’t changed. Plus, it may be a while before I can upgrade, or even get a reasonable base. I hate limiting myself, but I do have to be realistic. I am really hoping to be at least within spitting distance of 6 figures, more if I have to stay up north permanently. I have no problem with that, if they make it worth my time.

To: Bede

I agree with you, I know there are at least a few good companies outside the bigger airlines. I really don’t care what I am flying. I am more concerned with reasonable, competent management, with good pay for the conditions. I am interested in companies that are paying in money, not time, because they need experienced people and want to keep them.

[permarampy]

Thanks to those people who have already sent me information through private message. Since I don’t want to put all of my eggs in one basket, I am still interested in other companies that may be worth a look. After reviewing some posts on here, and talking with the pilots who pmed me, I am more convinced than ever that the better paying jobs are west of Ontario. There may be a few in Ontario and Quebec, but for the most part they need people to fly up north, therefore they generally pay more. I am more concerned with the type of company I would be working for, than where I am flying, or the type of plane I would be flying. Simply to give you an example of what I don’t want to put up with (if anybody recognizes this PLEASE do not name the company. I am not interested in throwing crap, simply finding a better place to work):

About a week after dealing with the fallout of not being able to take all of the bags on a charter trip due to the alternate requirements, I got another trip on a day with a snowstorm in the forecast. The first trip of the day there were no problems, the snowstorm was not due to hit until evening. I warned dispatch that there were likely to be problems, and to contact the client to see about moving the trip up. This was dismissed as not possible due to the client “coming in on a flight”. I let it go and came back later for the flight. I then found out that there is cargo going north, and it was late being delivered. I also found out that the flight the client was coming in on was ours, and he was in the northern community all along. I figured I could do the flight safely, but may end up at my alternate on the way back. After informing them of this, I get a nasty phone call from the assistant chief pilot. With the flight a week ago fresh in my mind, I did not want any more issues with management. I decided since it was technically safe to try, I went. Surprise, surprise, runways are hard to see in snowstorms, who knew? After going missed in the northern community, we barely made it in at home base. The next night I get a phone call from the FO asking if I was talking to the assistant chief pilot. Apparently, he thought I went missed on purpose. This really impressed the FO, I never heard a thing about it. This obviously cost the company some money, and it could have been easily preventable by dispatch doing a little bit of digging and not treating the captain like a mushroom. The least they could have done is to make sure the northbound cargo was not going to be 2 hours late.

This may have been the worse one, but I have put up with far too many situations similar to this. I am used to being the good employee at a job site, I am not interested in being treated like this because of incompetent management.

I know that there are good companies out there. Two examples that I have a fair bit of info on are Ornge, and Air Creebec. Ornge may be medivac, but they are trying to have 2 12 hour shifts vs flip flopping your duty day. Air Creebec has lots of ramp staff to help with the operation (too bad I don’t speak French). I am looking for other good companies to work for that may be similar to this. As much as I would like to stay home in the Maritimes, there is only really one company to work for, and I may be an FO for a LONG while before I see a reasonable salary. I know there a lot of companies in Winnipeg, Calgary, Yellowknife (and places in between). I am just looking for as much information as I can get on my next company so I at least have the possibility of staying.

I am not interested in working for companies that treat captains like garbage, but do nothing when they are told a rampy is smoking dope on lunch break (which is probably why he throwing temper tantrums, and hitting airplanes).

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate any and all info you can give me.

[digits_]

You won't get rich, but Bearskin treats their captains with respect. That was pre covid, but I don't think much has changed. They were bought out by EIC, but pilot management are still mainly Bearskin people I believe.

[Cavalier44]

I spent some time doing the 704/705-"lite" type flying and I dealt with many of the issues you're talking about.

Getting a call from the CP because you were unable to land at a destination because the CRFI was out of limits or the weather was below minimums, and being verbally berated over the phone, being told: "well x airline landed there, you should be able to too".

Having duty days extended with new flights being added to your schedule just as you're arriving back to your base at what you thought was the end of your day, only to be told "we had a charter come up and there's no one else to do it". If you questioned why a reserve pilot was not being called, being told: "the company owns you for 14 hours once you report for work, you should be able to do anything we ask of you."

Getting called on reserve for a single-day trip only to be informed once you've arrived at your destination that the trip is going to be extended to five or six days. Well, you didn't pack a week's worth of clothes for your single-day trip? You had obligations at home during those days and can't just leave home for that long expectedly? Too bad for you!

If you were identified as a "troublemaker", i.e. anything but a perfect yes man who was willing to do anything for the company, you would have a target painted on your back. You'd be passed up for an upgrade at the very least, if the company wasn't actively looking for reasons to fire you.

Now I'm not saying that there aren't good 704 or 705-"lite" type operations out there, but the day that I left that part of the industry to work for the airlines, I never dealt with those types of issues again. Granted you will always be accountable to someone, and if you have an unexpected delay or incident that warrants further investigation, it's not out of the question to expect a phone call from your Chief Pilot or other management. Generally speaking though, these types of calls are for proactive information gathering and are not a witch-hunt with the purpose of finding fault in something that you did.

If crew scheduling tries to force you into doing something that you don't think you should be doing, you consult your Collective Agreement and determine whether or not you're able to do what it is that they're asking. If you can back up your case then 99.9% of the time the issue will be dropped with apologies from the other party. If for some reason it's not, you reach out to your union rep and have them look into it.

I understand that you're not interested in chasing metal or building time, but the reality is that for quality of life and not dealing with the type of BS that comes hand-in-hand with working at these smaller operations, you can't beat the airlines. If you don't want to work at the regionals, there are still other options out there like Sunwing, Transat, Flair, and Swoop. They may not all be necessarily hiring right now (with the exception of Flair), but in a year or so I imagine that most will have recalled all their pilots and will be back to looking for experienced candidates to hire.

[digits_]

I understand that you're not interested in chasing metal or building time, but the reality is that for quality of life and not dealing with the type of BS that comes hand-in-hand with working at these smaller operations, you can't beat the airlines.

The unfortunate truth.

The dirty secret is that lots of 703 or 704 operators don't *want* people to stick around, as they become too expensive after 2 years. They say they do, but what they really mean is ' we want somebody to stay here forever working for the salary we paid you in year 1'.

There are exceptions, but they are very rare.

Some companies manage to compensate for the sub par salaries by having great management in place, and avoiding putting pressure on pilots, but lots unfortunately don't.