Contrail Requirements

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ehbuddy
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Re: Contrail Requirements

Post by ehbuddy » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:00 pm

I suppose Contrails have already networked all of the Travel Agencies in Alberta setting a standard that all of the Tier 1's have to adhere to. They just could not book passengers unless the Standard at WJ was up to its standards.
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Beaver2509
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Re: Contrail Requirements

Post by Beaver2509 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:03 am

Oil companies will gladly book their employees a ticket on Air Canada, with the flight operated by Air Georgian/Jazz, with crew members on board who do not meet the contrail standard for experience. I'm assuming they either don't know, or feel that because it's "Air Canada" the crews must be more experienced.
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MeAndMrPenguin
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Re: Contrail Requirements

Post by MeAndMrPenguin » Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:08 pm

That is totally true.

AC had guys with a year of jet experience were upgrading in 2007.

His approach is flawed. When the majors started hiring heavily in 2003 pilots were leaving quickly. Companies were having a hard time getting Captains to meet his numbers. In fact, I watched horrified as they hired people that had bounced around a lot and likely rejected by numerius airline panels and psych tests get these seats. A few did some very dangerous things and were fired. Good job Brian...

I was mostly irked at how impractical his approach was. He would not consider things such as Pilatus Command because he was rigid on Multi Engine. I eventually left for a command somewhere else.

To this day, I will have to be in year 2-3 of command at Air Canada to fly a business jet under Contrails. That will likely mark 18 years of flying, countless Sims, countless CRM courses and laying witness to some truly remarkable Captains with 20-30 years of experience I gather information from every day.

Numbers are only part of it....but hey, someone likely pays him a lot to do this....
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leftoftrack
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Re: Contrail Requirements

Post by leftoftrack » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:46 pm

MeAndMrPenguin wrote:That is totally true.

AC had guys with a year of jet experience were upgrading in 2007.

His approach is flawed. When the majors started hiring heavily in 2003 pilots were leaving quickly. Companies were having a hard time getting Captains to meet his numbers. In fact, I watched horrified as they hired people that had bounced around a lot and likely rejected by numerius airline panels and psych tests get these seats. A few did some very dangerous things and were fired. Good job Brian...

I was mostly irked at how impractical his approach was. He would not consider things such as Pilatus Command because he was rigid on Multi Engine. I eventually left for a command somewhere else.

To this day, I will have to be in year 2-3 of command at Air Canada to fly a business jet under Contrails. That will likely mark 18 years of flying, countless Sims, countless CRM courses and laying witness to some truly remarkable Captains with 20-30 years of experience I gather information from every day.

Numbers are only part of it....but hey, someone likely pays him a lot to do this....
In 2003 Air Canada declared bankruptcy and layed off 1000 pilots there was one job ad every 6 months for a Navajo driver requiring 5000 hrs and a fresh ppc your thinking late 2005-2007
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yycinformer
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Re: Contrail Requirements

Post by yycinformer » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:46 am

here's the latest update as of Sept 16, 2016:
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yycinformer
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Re: Contrail Requirements

Post by yycinformer » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:40 pm

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yycinformer
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Re: Contrail Requirements

Post by yycinformer » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:45 pm

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co-joe
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Re: Contrail Requirements

Post by co-joe » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:07 am

My theory on this, is that today is the perfect day to tell Mr Contrail to phuk off. During a boom, if you try to play hard ball with him, 2 operators will appear out of the shadows and take the work over. Right now, Sunwest and NCA are the only 703/ 704 players on the feild, GGN and CMA can barely staff their existing fleets, Skyservice is small and expensive. If SW and NCA got together and told Contrail to piss off, and started setting their own hour requirements, who's he going to turn to? What bank in it's right mind would finance a start up to compete with them in this economy?

There is absolutely no reason that a 1200 hour pilot with 1000 hours on type and having been to level D sim trainig 3 times total, can't safely operate a King Air or 1900 into the patch. Now is the time to stand up to this retard.
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iflyforpie
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Re: Contrail Requirements

Post by iflyforpie » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:18 am

I discovered this interesting concept while perusing Wikipedia a little while ago. It's called the McNamara Fallacy.

Robert McNamara was Secretary of Defense for JFK and LBJ in the 1960s and applying his experience as a systems analyst to a very dirty and ultimately unsuccessful conflict like the Vietnam War--where success was measured in the number of fighter sorties or tons of bombs dropped or enemy body count--was perhaps one of the greatest blunders of the 20th century.

It nearly perfectly describes Contrails.
The first step is to measure whatever can be easily measured. This is OK as far as it goes. The second step is to disregard that which can't be easily measured or to give it an arbitrary quantitative value. This is artificial and misleading. The third step is to presume that what can't be measured easily really isn't important. This is blindness. The fourth step is to say that what can't be easily measured really doesn't exist. This is suicide.

— Daniel Yankelovich "Corporate Priorities: A continuing study of the new demands on business." (1972)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNamara_fallacy


As pilots, the things most easily measured are licences, training, flight hours, and incidents/accidents. These are absolutes. What is less absolute is the sum of experience that a pilot might have beyond that, or the quality of experience behind those above figures. One hour a thousand times over holds true in many cases.

As the pilot shortage has taken hold, hiring minimums have gone down. Where minimums cannot go down because of contract or insurance requirements or something else like Contrails, other things obviously suffer, as you are getting the dregs of the pilots that meet the bare minimum numerical requirements who can't get past the gate keepers of higher tier carriers who look at far more than numbers.

As I write this, I do not meet Contrail requirements for the aircraft that I am PIC on in several areas... .which is on contract to the government in a much more challenging flying environment. I don't even meet Contrail requirements for first officer. But I brought an awful lot to the table with 20 years of industry experience with glowing references and diverse experience in a plethora of aviation fields from maintenance to airport operations to training to management.

Maybe aviation in the oil patch is safer because of Contrails, but correlation doesn't imply causation. Over the last 25 years we've seen 3rd party charter aircraft go from primarily Navajos and Metros and Jetstreams with steam gauges and traditional navaids doing non-precision approaches into poorly maintained strips with no autopilot or TCAS or EGPWS to Dash 8s and CRJs with full glass and FMS doing coupled WAAS LPV approaches to the equivalent of CAT I minimums on either end of a paved, lit, and serviced runway with better weather equipment and cameras than Nav Canada has. We've seen the old Air Navigation Orders be rewritten and expanded into the Canadian Aviation Regulations. We've made huge advances in Human Factors and CRM.

In the aftermath of the Colgan 3407 crash ten years ago, the FAA mandated a 1500 hour minimum for US airline operations. What was ironic about that is that the crew of the doomed aircraft already met those requirements. It was another number that the FAA could give to the press and the flying public to say that they were doing their job to ensure that pilots would be required to have more experience. The root causes of pilot fatigue and incorrect stall recovery and their corrective actions were insufficient by themselves to appease the traveling public.

Only a month or so earlier, Sully Sullenberger performed the Miracle on the Hudson. From a numerical standpoint, he would be an utter failure. An aircraft that he was Pilot in Command of was involved in an accident and was written off. But the sum of his experience which included far beyond the basics required to simply and even competently fly the aircraft was decisive in guiding a mortally wounded aircraft to a ditching that everyone survived.

That's the pilot I want to fly with...
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trey kule
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Re: Contrail Requirements

Post by trey kule » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:57 am

That is a very interesting post.
A couple of points in there got me thinking about a few things.

Good work
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