Jazz or Porter?

like2fly · Post by **like2fly** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:34 pm

Work Rules:

12 Guarantee days off a month. Usually, unless you are on reserve, or bid inefficient flying, you will get about 15-16 day off a month.

Is it not true that when one holds a block at Jazz, excluding training months, they are guaranteed a minimum of 14 days off a month?

mattedfred · Post by **mattedfred** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:39 pm

nope and to be completely accurate your minimum days off per month can be reduced to 10 days if training is scheduled outside the block

ragbagflyer · Post by **ragbagflyer** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:31 pm

Dark Helmet, when you switch from salary to hourly are you guaranteed a certain amount of hours per month? Are the hours actual duty hours or does each leg have a standard block of hours you're allotted?

Stinky · Post by **Stinky** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:43 am

Once you are on an hourly rate you are gauranteed pay for a minimum of 75hrs per month. This would work out to about $46k for a 3rd year. A block holder would be scheduled about 80hrs per month depending on the month. Every month the company issues a bid package which contains all of the pairings (flights) available to bid on and it also includes things like # of reserve in a month and blocking average, which is the hours you would be scheduled to fly.
Don't confuse credit hours with actual flying hours. When you go to work you are paid the greater of 3 things. 4.5hr min, or half your duty day (check in to check out) or actual flight time. Your are always gauranteed to be paid for your scheduled flying even if a flight is cancelled or early. Another term you'll hear is NBG, natural block growth. Since you are gauranteed the pay for your scheduled flights, inevitably flights will be delayed or reassignments will happen increasing your pay in some situations depending on which of the 3 methods of pay are used for that day. ie. you have a 6 hr duty day with 2 hrs of flying, a one hour delay won't increase your pay, it's still 4.5 min.

navajo_jay · Post by **navajo_jay** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:04 pm

Well,

I am in the best dilema I could ever imagine in my career. I just got hired by Porter and by Jazz. I've forgot about Porter for a while since, I interviewed in december 2008 and never got any news since today and I need to choose between them now. After reading all posts, both seems to be great place to work. I just don't know now. Except for having a chance to be close from my hometown with Jazz and travel benefits looks fun, Porter seems to be a good place too.

It is always like that, no job offers and nothing happens, 1 offer, and other comes in.

Anyway it's fun to be in that position!! lololol

Jay

Dark Helmet · Post by **Dark Helmet** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:12 pm

ragbagflyer wrote:Dark Helmet, when you switch from salary to hourly are you guaranteed a certain amount of hours per month? Are the hours actual duty hours or does each leg have a standard block of hours you're allotted?

Stinky hit the nail on the head with his post. Blocking Average over the past year has ranged from 77.5 up to 85 hrs. Also, anything over 85 hours, I believe you get your pay times 1.5. unless it is Training.

mattedfred wrote:nope and to be completely accurate your minimum days off per month can be reduced to 10 days if training is scheduled outside the block

If you are really unlucky, that will happen to you twice a year (or I guess 3 if you happen to have GS and SIM on a separate month)

Cangrats, navajo-jay. I don't think you can make a wrong choice. Neither company is perfect (well, at least Jazz is not anyways, I will let a Porter guy tell you that about Porter). In the end I think they are both very good places to work.

Good luck with your decision. And Enjoy you new job!!!!! wherever it may be.

Dark Helmet · Post by **Dark Helmet** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:46 pm

Jim la Jungle wrote:Those were really good posts! Now, with that info, my question is: Would you leave your present company where you have a better wage (than the entry at those 2 companies) , good seniority, and I guess, a better job security (whatever this means in aviation) to go at Jazz or Porter and be at the bottom of the list under these uncertain times.

I'm in that dilemma and don't have any nails left to chew on.

Jim, if we could predict the future, we would all know what the lotto numbers will be next week and retire as millionaires

.

How much do you enjoy your job? And where do you want to be eventually?

you gotta take the good with the bad. If you do get laid off, you will have a shiny DH8, Q400, or a CRJ ppc and there are lots of them around.

You can go work overseas, instruct at CAE, etc. When the good times come back (and it will) you can come back with your seniority if you choose to. Also, looks like WJ, CX, EK will probably be hiring for the next couple of years as well.

All else fails, leave you present job on good terms, so tha you can go back if you need to.

Good Luck

wordstwice · Post by **wordstwice** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:10 am

CAL · Post by **CAL** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:37 am

The salaries at both are too low...and in regard to the commute thing...I would rather have the option of being able to live anywhere and know that even though it may be a bitch I have lots of options to get to work...which would mean Jazz...Working for Porter I would assume means you live in Toronto which is not that cheap and the traffic sucks..but likely you smile a bit more at work...and I heard the FA's are not bad:)....does Porter have any jumpseat agreements in place with anyone?

wordstwice · Post by **wordstwice** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:58 am

mattedfred · Post by **mattedfred** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:07 am

does the 2 hour callout at porter require you to be at the YTZ terminal within 2 hours? what is the ferry schedule nowadays? is there a connection between union and the ferry dock? i'll check out the appropriate websites if nobody wants to answer so no biggie.

big dog · Post by **big dog** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:23 am

Yeah a 2 hr call out for reserve. The ferry runs every 12 minutes or so and yes there is a free shuttle from Union to the YTZ ferry terminal.

rudder · Post by **rudder** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:25 am

Porter or Jazz? Lets look two years into the future..........

Porter's current business model is unsustainable. Expansion into a recessionary economy focusing on O&D traffic out of a secondary airport? MDW is already underperforming and the YQT announcement is a joke. Most YQT traffic is connecting and that is why it works for AC and WJ. Much like JetsGo, backloaded costs eventually have to be paid. We will see how deep the private investors pockets are at Porter. The Deluces have never made money running an airline in the long term - they make money selling airlines.

Jazz is only as stable as AC. If AC fails again, then Jazz will suffer proportionally. Jazz has so far failed at any attempts to diversify its business beyond AC CPA work. The neverending scope fight between ACPA and ALPA will renew itself again this year at the respective bargaining tables. Could be the end of the line for the 75-seaters at Jazz.

An interesting possibility is that Jazz could buy Porter and incorporate that capacity into the CPA with AC. Perhaps that is what the Porter investors have been hoping for all along

olijets11 · Post by **olijets11** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:00 pm

PORTER!!!!!!

YVRDroider · Post by **YVRDroider** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:41 pm

Bump. Anyone reconsidered their position here over the last few years?

HiLo · Post by **HiLo** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:59 pm

Some great info in here, but can someone update the facts?

Lemon · Post by **Lemon** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:54 pm

atmosphere · Post by **atmosphere** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:01 pm

Jazz without a doubt!

Lemon · Post by **Lemon** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:37 pm

Any updates on this? Which one would you choose today?

A V I A T O · Post by **A V I A T O** » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:18 pm

It all comes down to personal preference, but Jazz gets the edge in my opinion.

Porter: great lifestyle for a downtown resident, walking to work, interesting flying out of YTZ, everyone just looks like theyre having a generally good time working there

but... 10 gdos a month as opposed to 12 at jazz. Not sure what the flight benefits are like for family, but im sure jazz has more ways than one to send mom, dad, spouse and kids on european and asian vacations

porters also limited to bases in toronto, ottawa, and halifax. with jazz you could go out west eventually if living in a 1 million dollar condo in yaletown above a cougar cocktail bar is an experience to cross off the bucket list.

last but not least, porters got a big jet order, but with the big obstacle in the way of not being able to use them on the island, and thus not being able to apply the successful porter business model of convenience to their jet operation. A porter jet operation out of YYZ would definitely be interesting though. It would be a bath-of-blood fare war between WJ AC and PD. Whose war chest is deeper to survive that?

Jazz gets the edge on long term outlook in my opinion, though neither would be a bad place to be.

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