Thunder is Hiring

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-60
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Thunder is Hiring

Post by -60 »

Thunder is hiring F.O.'s for the King Airs and Mu-2's. Looking for people with 1500 TT, 500 MPIC + good IFR time. Two crew an asset.

8 spots open. Yes there is a training bond but it is paid back with interest.

Their fax # is: 807-475-5841

They WILL NOT direct hire Captains. All upgrades are from within but with the movement and expansion, it may not take long.
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rigpiggy
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Post by rigpiggy »

Training bond hmmmmmmmm. just like jetsgo. If you can afford the airplane, you can afford the training. If not get out of the sandbox. One more scuzzbag operator.

And those of you who go to work for an operator. if you say you'll be there for 1yr, 18 months, 2yrs. then stick to your word. Scuzzbag pilots one is as bad as the other
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Post by Legacy »

A friggen Men
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confuzed
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Post by confuzed »

rigpiggy wrote:Training bond hmmmmmmmm. just like jetsgo. If you can afford the airplane, you can afford the training. If not get out of the sandbox. One more scuzzbag operator.

And those of you who go to work for an operator. if you say you'll be there for 1yr, 18 months, 2yrs. then stick to your word. Scuzzbag pilots one is as bad as the other

Dude, get off your high horse and get with it. There's nothing wrong with the company making sure that you don't piss off with a shiny new ppc card. I think that bonds at places like Jetsgo is a little retarded, but when you're talking about something that's entry level then there's no big deal. When you're getting it paid back with interest there's nothing wrong with it. If you have a problem with training bonds, good luck in todays industry......if you think that you DESERVE it then who do you think you are?? Thunder's actually a great place to work. They don't fly overweight, bust minimums, fly broken equipment or bust duty days. In fact, they give you a minimum of 10 hours rest after every shift. If you fly overweight or bust minimums, you're fired plain and simple. It's been done, and the individual was very quickly sent on their way.
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Post by Doc »

rigpiggy...you'r bang on! Paying big bucks up front to fly for Thunder, or anyone else is total dog shit!!! The only reason there are companies that require money up fron is because WIMPY STUPID PILOTS pay them. It's time we sent these turkeys got the nessage. If you can afford the airplane, you can afford to train the troops!!! If the pilots leave with a fresh PPC, then it's a problem within your operation...not with the pilot! It's FAR cheaper to treat pilots the right way, and pay them a good wage, than keep training new guys......ie. pay them, and treat them well...and they wont screw you....dont screw them!
Confuzed...how's life on the "high horse"!
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Post by frog »

-60
Unless you are part of the management of this company, I am not sure they are going to like the zillions of résumés following your post!

But after all it is none of my buisness either!
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Post by spoiler »

Well, werent' you the one that asked interview tips for there? That is kind of telling everyone they are hiring too I think. Nothing wrong with a large pool to pick from if you are management either.
Did you get the job?
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Post by confuzed »

Doc wrote:rigpiggy...you'r bang on! Paying big bucks up front to fly for Thunder, or anyone else is total dog shit!!! The only reason there are companies that require money up fron is because WIMPY STUPID PILOTS pay them. It's time we sent these turkeys got the nessage. If you can afford the airplane, you can afford to train the troops!!! If the pilots leave with a fresh PPC, then it's a problem within your operation...not with the pilot! It's FAR cheaper to treat pilots the right way, and pay them a good wage, than keep training new guys......ie. pay them, and treat them well...and they wont screw you....dont screw them!
Confuzed...how's life on the "high horse"!
Well doc, i'm in the position where I guess I can see the big picture I guess....how about you?? How are things out in your end these days in, anyone prop blasted you lately?? How's our airmanship for you, up to your standards yet??? I guess the company you work for is god's gift to the industry.........must be, since there's no training bond. If you already plan on sticking around for a few years, what's the worry of the bond that you get back?? The retention bonus is a nice thank you as well when you're done your bond, but what would I know since in your opinion they're dirtbags.....If pilots leave with a fresh ppc, it's not always the company but the dirtbags that choose to leave with them :wink: That's why we're in this training bond issue in the first place.
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Post by Doc »

You dont have a training bond. You take money up front. Your people(the ones you call "dirt-bags") leave simply because there ARE greener pastures out there. Every company has pilots leave....or have you been living in a cave? Did I hit a nerve? Did you have to fork out a few grand, only to find there are other companies out there in LA LA land? Pitty. Enjoy your stay...it's bound to be a looong one!
On the airmanship issue, it was a one time thing. Shit happens. But I guess it's caused you many sleepless nights? Pity. I feel a booo hooo comming.
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Post by flynbutcher »

F@#k the training bonds, we should NEVER NEVER fall for that shit again. Did pilots learn a lesson here, I think we may have.
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Post by confuzed »

Doc wrote:You dont have a training bond. You take money up front. Your people(the ones you call "dirt-bags") leave simply because there ARE greener pastures out there. Every company has pilots leave....or have you been living in a cave? Did I hit a nerve? Did you have to fork out a few grand, only to find there are other companies out there in LA LA land? Pitty. Enjoy your stay...it's bound to be a looong one!
On the airmanship issue, it was a one time thing. Shit happens. But I guess it's caused you many sleepless nights? Pity. I feel a booo hooo comming.
Nope, no nerves hit here...believe me. There's been some guys leaving for greener pastures, who can blame them. I mean isn't it some peoples goals of flying for a major one day? Nothing wrong with that, after all a king air is only an entry level turbine position. Speaking of which, why are you still flying an entry level aircraft in a small town?? By choice I hope. I paid out the training bond and didn't have any issues about it....still don't. I shelled out my bond, and am getting every penny paid back as I go. People that "buy" their jobs don't get their money back there doc. They go and do a type rating on say a navajo, or a jet without any job lined up in hopes of making their resume look better. Will my stay here be a long one? Not sure yet, haven't decided. Enjoy the way I'm treated, and can rest easily at night knowing that I will be treated properly and not forced to do anything stupid. Not like some unprofessional companies that I see come and go that don't even help their "customers" out of the airplane, just kick them out and off they go. Why would I have sleepless nights over something I wasn't even there to witness, just heard about? I just found it funny since that's pretty much a normal thing for your operation from what i've been seeing. See above for example and there are more that can be described.
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Post by Doc »

You sure seem to be on a rant about something that dosent bother you? Go ahead man, vent!
So, then, if paying up front isn't "buying" a job, what would you call it? Lending the company your money perhaps?
Yup. Paying up front is a great investment! And if the company(never said your's would, you understand)goes under, you're phuqued! But, I guess that's Okay? Seems to me, you're sticking up for a pretty sleezy practice?
As for am entry level airplane. I've never heard it put in quite that light before. Let me guess. You need to fly a BIG airplane to compensate for the size of your penis?
Your serve.
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Post by confuzed »

Doc wrote:You sure seem to be on a rant about something that dosent bother you? Go ahead man, vent!
So, then, if paying up front isn't "buying" a job, what would you call it? Lending the company your money perhaps?
Yup. Paying up front is a great investment! And if the company(never said your's would, you understand)goes under, you're phuqued! But, I guess that's Okay? Seems to me, you're sticking up for a pretty sleezy practice?
As for am entry level airplane. I've never heard it put in quite that light before. Let me guess. You need to fly a BIG airplane to compensate for the size of your penis?
Your serve.
Not venting dude, just telling you what my opinion is on the matter. Venting would be using derogatory comments towards a company that you know nothing about, such as yourself did in an earlier post :wink: I merely stated that I have no problems with training bonds, since the pilot community is what brought it on in the first place. Again, I have no issues "giving" them money upfront that will be re-paid as I go. You're right though about the "what if" game, but I won't live my life playing "what if". If that were the case, I'd never leave my house. By what I'm gathering from what you're saying, companies like Bearskin, NAC, Lockhart, Voyageur, etc are also shady operations because they require a training bond? Interesting indeed, since some of those companies that are mentioned are top notch. I know people that work for them and have seen their operation and have nothing but respect for them. I'll re-iterate again for you if you haven't already grasped this though, training bonds on a position that is already yours isn't a problem in my opinion. I believe that the sleezy practices are those that go and buy type ratings in equipment that they aren't even being considered for just to make themselves look better. I.E. Joe blow goes and buys himself a B757 type rating or buys 250 hours of BE20 time just to make them stand out a little bit. That I don't agree with, but apparently they're both the same thing in YOUR opinion. That's fine, everyone is entitled to THEIR opinion. Never said that flying something bigger had anything to do with your dick size doc, just stating that as you have more then once said it's "only a kingair".
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Post by Doc »

Well now, Confuzed....this has really gotten silly.
Fly safe.
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Post by Spaceship 2 »

I just want to know who, with 1500 tt, has 500 MPIC???
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bond

Post by permateacher »

I think this training bond thing comes down to 2 different approaches. In one you sign a statement saying that if you leave you owe the company x amount prorated to how much time left you have on your bond. No money exchanges hands on your part, and if you want out so bad for something so much better you can buy out with no hard feelings. If the company goes tits up then you don't lose a cent, becuase you didn't give them anything at all. I rather a gentleman's agreement, but I think this is fair.

The other way is for you to get a loan from the bank that the company pays back, that is unfair. It's a personal choice to take the job, but if the company goes under you're in the hole.

There are different versions of this training bond thing out there and people should identify which one the company has before they speak out against it.

If this bond issue makes the employer want to give out more jobs (and they flip the bill) than it's good for everyone.

RH
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Post by Doc »

I just dont see the difference between getting a loan and just buying a PPC elsewhere? But I'm a little slow. The bond issue has been around long enough that we're probably stuck with it. The "gentleman's agreement" would work in aviation due in part to the lack of "gentlemen".
The signed statement type I dont have a huge problem with. You really shouldn't be "out of pocket" to get a job.
But there is really no advantage for a company to "hang on to" a pilot who wants to go elsewhere. Give that some thought. He could cost you thousands with a simple hot start, miss an approach or two. I have never seen this done...but it would be pretty simple.
I guess one of the reasons that I have such a hard time with bonds (for confuzed's info) is I come from a time where the hand shake meant something. If I shook an employer's hand and said I'll be here for a year, then I'd be here for a year.
I feel it comes down to trust. If my word isn't good enough for ya, I'd rather drive a truck! Asking a pilot to sign a bond is saying right up front ,that you dont trust his word.
The other reason may be, that I've never had to sign one. Maybe it's because I'm so old, ugly and nasty, the company knows the hard part will be getting rid of me, not trying to make me stay?
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Post by shimmydampner »

confuzed wrote:There's nothing wrong with the company making sure that you don't piss off with a shiny new ppc card. I think that bonds at places like Jetsgo is a little retarded, but when you're talking about something that's entry level then there's no big deal.
OK, so let's get this straight, you think there's nothing wrong with a company making a pilot pay for a job. And at a place like Thunder on a King Air, this is OK, but at JetsGo it's not OK. Hmmmm.
And really, when you think about it strictly from a selfish point of view, what's wrong with taking your PPC and moving on in a year or whatever. First of all, there's one more job opened up for a less experienced pilot who'll finally get a chance (more movement in the industry=good news for pilots.) Not to mention, you've gotta do what's best for you and your career, not what's best for some asshole boss or company. And if they're a decent place to work, chances are pretty good you'll want to stick around anyway for a while. Companies that make pilots pay for jobs and the idiots that pay are the ones responsible for ruining the industry.
confuzed wrote:When you're getting it paid back with interest there's nothing wrong with it.
Man, if you're looking into investing your money, aviation is not the place to do it, and training bonds are not the way to do it. Or have we already forgotton the $30,000 lesson?
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Post by frog »

Turanga:

I agree that asking tips on a company gives the hint that the company is hiring.
But according to me there is a difference between giving the hint and advertising hit. I agree it is better for a company to have large pool to pick up from. But I was told during the interview that they were already swamped with résumés.

And for the last question, I don't know yet, I will have an answer either way early next week...so hopefully...
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Post by confuzed »

And at a place like Thunder on a King Air, this is OK, but at JetsGo it's not OK. Hmmmm.
And really, when you think about it strictly from a selfish point of view, what's wrong with taking your PPC and moving on in a year or whatever. First of all, there's one more job opened up for a less experienced pilot who'll finally get a chance (more movement in the industry=good news for pilots.) Not to mention, you've gotta do what's best for you and your career, not what's best for some asshole boss or company. And if they're a decent place to work, chances are pretty good you'll want to stick around anyway for a while. Companies that make pilots pay for jobs and the idiots that pay are the ones responsible for ruining the industry. Man, if you're looking into investing your money, aviation is not the place to do it, and training bonds are not the way to do it. Or have we already forgotton the $30,000 lesson?
Having to pay say $4000 and $30000 is huge difference and you don't see any of the other "majors" do this. However, a good portion of these "entry level" companies like Thunder, Bearskin, NAC, Voyageur do. It's all about what stage you're at I guess you could say and how that niche of the industry works. I never said there wasn't anything wrong with taking your PPC and screwing off, but that's why there's a bond in the first place. If I'm going to sidestep with said PPC card is a lot different then moving up to something bigger. Guys do want to stick around in this case due to the fact of good overall the operation is. No one said anything about wanting to investyour money in a sense that you say "hey cool, i get more money back then I put it", it's just a reality that we have to face. I can see doc's point very clearly that times were different 10 years ago even. In today's oversaturated pilot market where guys will work for free and backstab they're best friend or piss off somewhere else with a PPC in hand, your word means nothing anymore. The employer has a right to think the guy he's hiring has ulterior (sp?) motives, and will do what they can to protect themselves. Why would they train 5 guys at their expense in ON, when the guys are say from BC and can get a job back home if they had a PPC on type? As soon as they're done, off they go back home to said job and the employer is out xthousands of dollars. Having this bond makes them have to think twice about jumping ship or even applying in the first place.

Doc, I agree with you 100% that apparently our words don't mean crap anymore. However, who's fault is that really?? It's the guys who did this training in good faith saying they were going to stick around and then jump ship just to get a little closer to home, etc...Might not have had anything to do with the company, they're just the first ones to hire them. Do I like having bonds, well no not really obviously....I have a family that I have to provide for. HOWEVER, I see the logistics behind it and understand why it's being done. Instead of complaining about it, I'll just deal with it since that's the state the industry is in right now. Will it revert back to the way it used to be? It would be nice, but will it happen realistically...probably not. Not while we have people who make everyone else look bad and bail out on a company that just spent a few thousand dollars training them. I've got no hard feelings towards you or your opinion I guess I just look at it a different way. Call it devils advocate I guess if you will.

I guess I'll call it quits to this one though, since I'm repeating myself a few times, but don't have the time to go back and tweak the post. As always though, it's an interesting discussion.
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