Air Force

[CH124 Driver]

Well I agree that mil flying and civ flying are different in some ways, but I think the suggestion was to use experienced comm pilots to fill where there was a need to fill. I do not think it would take that long to train a comm pilot in the mil world. I have done both and think it would be a great advantage to use the talent available in canada

That's where we disagree. When I was in Moose Jaw and in Portage on helo school, I saw experienced commercial pilots fail out. We're only talking about training here, let alone operational flying. I know that there are enough subtle differences that IMO, would make it quite difficult in some, if not most cases, to integrate a commercial pilot into an OTU and beyond. So what you're left with is sending them to Moose Jaw or Portage, in that case why not just stick to home grown where we know things are going to be done the way we want them?

I remember a guy that joined as a reserve helo pilot under the HELICOP program, or something to that effect. He came out to Portage for an assessment. I'm not sure how it worked out but you could definitely tell in the 2 weeks he was there that he lacked a lot of the skills we had learned in Moose Jaw and this guy had a CPL-H.

It's one example I know, but combined with the 1700hr guys failing PFT and a few other cases of commercial pilots failing in Moose Jaw, I came to the conclusion that I did. It wouldn't be a universal fix and it would still require Portage at least as a baseline. Woopee, we shaved a year off pilot training. That's not exactly going to fix any manning problems we have.

[hollywood]

Wow it took me over 8 months to get my contract sorted out, but at last it is done. Now im finishing my final year of my degree under the ROTP, then I get to possibly bypass some flight training. Wish I did this when I was 20, instead of going to Coastal Pacific aka waste of time and money.

[Bif]

The CF careers website currently asserts that: "The Air Force is currently hiring men and women with a university degree who want to become pilots. Qualified candidates can start their training immediately."

Yet, judging by several previous posts in this thread, I get the impression this may not exactly be the case. If one were to enlist now, pass the aptitude tests, and have a University degree), would it be unreasonable to expect the same type of delay as hollywood has experienced? Is it common to have to sit around waiting to be "called-up" after being accepted for training?

I ask because I am seriously considering the CF route as an alternative to civvie training here in Vancouver.

Also, if any of you former or current CF pilots have any advice/experience that you could share with me, a PM would be greatly appreciated

Thanks so much!

P.S. In case you're wondering, I'm a 22 year-old soon-to-be university grad (BSc. this spring). A career as a pilot is (and has been) my goal/dream for as long as I can remember, and I'm currently facing some big decisions about how to achieve that.

[mellow_pilot]

So are the Forces actually short? Cause the way training and recruiting is backed up, you'd think they were trying to keep people out!

[mellow_pilot]

The CF careers website currently asserts that: "The Air Force is currently hiring men and women with a university degree who want to become pilots. Qualified candidates can start their training immediately."

Yet, judging by several previous posts in this thread, I get the impression this may not exactly be the case. If one were to enlist now, pass the aptitude tests, and have a University degree), would it be unreasonable to expect the same type of delay as hollywood has experienced? Is it common to have to sit around waiting to be "called-up" after being accepted for training?

I ask because I am seriously considering the CF route as an alternative to civvie training here in Vancouver.

Also, if any of you former or current CF pilots have any advice/experience that you could share with me, a PM would be greatly appreciated

Thanks so much!

P.S. In case you're wondering, I'm a 22 year-old soon-to-be university grad (BSc. this spring). A career as a pilot is (and has been) my goal/dream for as long as I can remember, and I'm currently facing some big decisions about how to achieve that.

If you have the degree, bonus. It's alittle late for this year, but go into CFRC Vancouver and ask. Here's a tip though, call and setup a meeting with a recruiter. Don't just walk in and start asking questions at CFRC Vancouver, they'll just give you some forms and tell you to come back when they're done. (get forms off the net) Get an appointment with a recruiter and have a list of qusetions written down. Make it a long list, there is no telling when the next time they'll talk to you is and the website is very lacking in details. If there's one thing I've noticed from woking with CFRC Van it's that they subscribe to the hurry-up and wait theory. (not always their fault as alot of stuff has to criss-cross the country for your application to be completed, but you might want to start reading War and Peace to pass the time)

[hollywood]

That website has been the same for around 4 years I believe, its kind of a way to get people in the door. On your application you put the top 3 -5 jobs you want in the Forces, if you dont get pilot they try and push another on you. The intake for pilots over the past 3 years has been the same (20 ROTP) and (80 DEO). I think somebody else posted it, but we dont have the ability to train more pilots than that a year.

[mellow_pilot]

Isn't that sort of the point? We are short of pilots, we can't train enough per year to meet the need. Ergo, we need more training capacity in our military.

Another question, for anyone who knows. How many AF pilots are leaving for Big Red etc, now that the big boys are hiring again?

[looproll]

CEOTP is OPEN! http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engr ... dex_e.aspx

[mg777]

CEOTP is OPEN! http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engr ... dex_e.aspx

Yes it is. Enjoy the recruiting process. Mu-hahahahahahahaaaa!

I was offered a job as a CEOTP applicant but I turned it down for personal reasons. (Reasons that last October were not there). If anybody has any questions regarding the program; fire away.

So are the Forces actually short? Cause the way training and recruiting is backed up, you'd think they were trying to keep people out!

My MCC (military career counsellor) said "We desperately need pilots. We can't afford to lose someone like you." when I was withdrawing. It was a now or never type of deal so it was strange that he would tell me not to bother ever re-applying seeing as I was what they needed. But what is done is done.

Definitely-those who are impatient need not apply. The wait for Moose Jaw is around two years. Add in the two years of actual training and you are looking at 4-5 years before you are a CF Pilot that is IF you get your wings. A lot of commercial guys with time have flunked the MJ courses as mentioned by CH124 Driver. (I recognize that signature another chat forum...) There is no guarantee you will get your wings but if you do, you are set. It is a great career.

Just some advice, recruiting has two different answers on pay for CEOTP. It works differently than ROTP and they may tell you it is the same. If you go ROTP, you are an OCDT during Basic. Once you complete Basic, you are promoted to 2nd LT and receive back pay for your time in basic. With CEOTP, you are an Officer Cadet until you receive your wings. (can be 4-5 years) Meaning you will make $2400/month before taxes during that time. If you have a lot of bills, have a family to provide for or are used to a certain lifestyle that may be a concern. Of course down the road, you can make 100K+.

How many AF pilots are leaving for Big Red etc, now that the big boys are hiring again?

I personally wouldn't join the CF solely because I wanted to fly for Big Red. Everyone thinks they are going to end up flying fixed wing going multi or fast jet. Chances are you are going to fly a helo whether you like it or not since most of their fleet is helo. I know jack about Big Red applications but does having 10 years experience flying helo's make you a candidate for flying an Airbus?

Also, you are going to owe 9 years. From what I understand that payback doesn't start until you earn your wings. I could be wrong. But if so, do the math of 4-5 years of getting your wings + 9 years. You better know that you are in for the long haul with the CF. Would you want to leave a secure $100K+ job, 25 days off, security for a $40K job at Big Red with a lot less security. I guess if you are tied to a desk...

The CF careers website currently asserts that: "The Air Force is currently hiring men and women with a university degree who want to become pilots. Qualified candidates can start their training immediately."

Your training will start immediately in St.Jean not Moose Jaw. "Time for PT!" You'll be off to BOTC right away and then doing courses, second language training, on the job training etc. while you wait for your time in Moose Jaw.

Also, don't take the DND site for the final word. If you are interested in CEOTP, you won't see it directly under the Pilot job description. That site is not 100% accurate. You need to call the 800 number to find out what programs are open. It is an excellent opportunity if you are willing to work hard and can think big picture or long term.

Good luck and holla if you have any CEOTP questions...

[Invertago]

So, if you don't get your wings, where does that leave you? Do they try to stick you in another trade? Are you on a contract already, or can you just say bye its been fun. I put in my application, I have military experience (communications reserves), I got my CPL but took several years away from flying to polish off my degree, now its a question of waiting for the recruiters to get back to me or chasing ramp jobs etc. I'd love to fly for the CF, but if I cant get in as a pilot Ill go the civy road and enjoy my military adventures with the reserves.

[av8tor_assrope]

a mate of mine sometimes lurks through avcanada. his name is mcrit. send a pm off to him. he has tons of civi time (aerobatic class 1 yadyadayada) and he's enrolled to be a pilot in the cf. he's currently in st jean doing basic.

cheers

[mg777]

So, if you don't get your wings, where does that leave you? Do they try to stick you in another trade? Are you on a contract already, or can you just say bye its been fun.

You can either pick another trade or release from the CF.

I put in my application, I have military experience (communications reserves), I got my CPL but took several years away from flying to polish off my degree, now its a question of waiting for the recruiters to get back to me or chasing ramp jobs etc. I'd love to fly for the CF, but if I cant get in as a pilot Ill go the civy road and enjoy my military adventures with the reserves.

Good plan. You should get a call. If you are in the comm reserves, you don't have to redo the CFAT unless you didn't qualify for Officer. (Not sure if you are NCM or Officer). So you might be ahead of the game. The only things that might prevent you from being accepted are the medicals and Aircrew Selection. If you fail aircrew and have a CPL or PPL, when you reapply, you have to have the next level up. If you went to a recognized aviation college, you bypass ASC. Just fly the instruments when in Trenton. "Do it the CF way" I heard it a lot.

Good luck. I watched a Herc here in Ottawa today (not sure why he was here) doing some approaches that were not what I was used to seeing Big Red do. (I live close to YOW) Makes me wish I was still in the game. Oh well, maybe next year.

[Invertago]

Well, I PMed mcrit. Not that I am impatient with waiting for the CF, but this is the time of the year to go hunting for ramp jobs too, I'd hate to miss a summer on the ramp because I was waiting for the CF to call me, then again, Id hate to just get started on a ramp job then have to leave for CF testing etc. First jobs in aviation are important and if I end up going the civilian route I want to make a good first impression and stick around with the company a while.

[Raybanman]

Pretty much all of our bases are in far-removed locations where there really isn't a ready supply of civvie pilots. Doubt there are many commercial pilots kickin' around in Cold Lake, Bagotville or even Trenton. I suppose Borden might be an exception but I think that is just whirly birds.

Hey, I live close to cold lake! It wouldn't take more than saay a week in an interrogation room to force me to fly a hornet or a Herc. I mean can't be much harder than a twin otter right?

Cheers,
PP

[av8tor_assrope]

be patient with mcrit. he may not answer right away. last time i talked to him they tossed the recruits into the forest for a few days. also be patient with the cf. i've been waiting a few months for my cic app to get processed and have yet to schedule an interview or a medical.

cheers

[Invertago]

Hmmm, any suggestions where a guy with a CPL (havent finished my multi IFR or instructor rating) can go for some work, sky diving, ramp etc, hopefully either on vancouver island or edmonton area. I might as well try to get my foot in the door somewhere while I wait for the airforce, incase the airforce doesnt work out.

[mellow_pilot]

Wow, seems there are alot of us waiting to hear from the boys in relish.

I was told that BC only had 4 slots for CEOTP this year. (fiscal year I think)
I know that atleast 1 has been taken. The race is on!!

I'm kinda unhappy about the no promotion til wings with CEOTP. It seems a bit rediculous to me. Could it be that this is only the case if you haven't gotten your degree? I can't imagine them holding back rank once you have a sheepskin.

I was also told that each CEOTP contract is more or less unique to your situation, i.e. they may take you for training right away, or if you could fininsh school in a year or so they'll have you do that first. Anyone else heard similar?

[mg777]

Wow, seems there are alot of us waiting to hear from the boys in relish.

I was told that BC only had 4 slots for CEOTP this year. (fiscal year I think)
I know that atleast 1 has been taken. The race is on!!

I think there was 48 total slots. Talking to my MCC, apparently they were still short by around 35 last year despite CEOTP. I am not sure if they only make so many availble to a recruting centre or if they just take the most qualified candidates. If so, I really passed on a once in a life time opportunity.

To give you an application timeline, I applied last october. I had a conditional offer on March 13 for a BOTC date of April 15th. The recruiting centre was basically shut down for a month during the "Holiday" season. So you can do the math. I can tell you that at this time of the year, they are busy. It is fiscal end until April 1, the Reserves are swamped with applications from University/College students for summer jobs and they are processing a lot of ROTP applications as well. Not to mention, every element is on a hiring spree. BE PATIENT at the same time, don't put all of your eggs into one basket; go about looking for other jobs. Siggy's on the right track. Every so often, not every day, you can call and see if they received your file and where you stand etc.

I'm kinda unhappy about the no promotion til wings with CEOTP. It seems a bit rediculous to me. Could it be that this is only the case if you haven't gotten your degree? I can't imagine them holding back rank once you have a sheepskin. I was also told that each CEOTP contract is more or less unique to your situation, i.e. they may take you for training right away, or if you could fininsh school in a year or so they'll have you do that first. Anyone else heard similar?

I did have a few conversation's with a recruit on a different site that managed to get what he wanted. He had an aviation diploma from a college that the CF recognizes. He was then able to proceed as a normal DEO or ROTP applicant would. He also made more money in the reserves and under CANFORGEN, he was supposed to make close to his reserve salary though. Originally though, his offer was exactly the same as any other CEOTP applicant. I guess you can try and play with it should you receive an offer. How flexible are they with Joe CEOTP? I don't know. Maybe an actual CF'er can chime in on that. It might have to do with how many qualified applicants they have? I dunno. There is one good thing though. When you get your wings (if you do) you go from OCDT to LT and skip over 2nd LT.

You have to think about what you are getting though! It probably pays more than a ramp job and a ramp job most certainly won't pay for your university degree, give you officer training, survival courses, wip your ass into shape not to mention give you the best flight training available while paying you. OJT (on the job training) may take as long as a ramp job before you start training but you can start you correspondence for your BA in basket weaving, start making contacts, go for a flight in a CF aircraft. Where else can you go on to fly a Herc, Buff, Airbus, 188 or chopper right after training?

*sigh* - wish things were different for me. Maybe next year IF CEOTP is still open.

Anyway - good luck. Member stay positive. It is a long process but well worth the wait.

[Invertago]

Well, I just got my degree (basket weaving with honors ) so I’m aiming for the ROTP route, hopefully that helps my chances. My flight training was just through several non recognized flight schools. I don't want to pay to finish my Multi IFR incase I do get in the CF, but I'd love to fly sky divers or something while waiting to get in. Does anyone know of any schools on Vancouver island or in Edmonton that take new guys. Also, any advice on how I apply, do I do it formally w/ resume appointment etc, or just get in contact to see if they are looking for anyone right now? Dress casual? Or? Just wondering as they are less about the flying and more about the sport how is it best to approach them.

[petite]

Anyone gone through the recruiting process to be an a/c tech?