Some info on CMA

[whiteguy]

Whiteguy, the reason I won't post salaries are because there has been enough information posted on what industry median is, and the fact that we are now paying more. If that's appealing the right individual will apply and inquire more about it. If it's not appealing the candidate probably has better job prospects on the line and should exercise those before coming here. We aren't AC/WJ/Canadian North today, and can't possibly be expected to compete on meeting max salaries to what they are paying. But we can certainly offer more initial pay than what you would make there a lot faster. Especially if those companies are hiring guys with time, most of those individuals would see DCT entry 705 or 704, making substantially more at CMA. Plus, which 705 operator in a big city offers left seat upgrades on a 705 machine without an 8-10 year wait? Keep that in mind if you're coming here as a 705/704 F/O. Also keep in mind, today we have about 20 airplanes, 4 of which are 705. This is changing, but the intent is that we are a different type of beast.



Hope this answers your inquiries.

Not really but thanks anyway.....

[+cHange]

Not only positive changes for pilots but for maintenance as well. Payscale has increased to above industry standard in recent years to help retain AME's. Plenty of type courses and training invested as well. Great bunch of guys to work with and its hard to find a place that can top this gig.

This post was approved after some days. Just wanted to take the opportunity to draw some attention to it.

To add to this I also want to make you aware that the relationship between pilot's and maintenance is one of the best I have seen in this industry. We are all aware how tech savy maintenance is and how difficult it can be to sometimes listen to pilot's concerns. But our Maintenance staff maintain the utmost professionalism and if anything, have great friendships and relationships with the pilot's and work really well together.

All around things are improving you guys!

Have a great weekend.

[voodoomech]

To add to this I also want to make you aware that the relationship between pilot's and maintenance is one of the best I have seen in this industry. We are all aware how tech savy maintenance is and how difficult it can be to sometimes listen to pilot's concerns. But our Maintenance staff maintain the utmost professionalism and if anything, have great friendships and relationships with the pilot's and work really well together.

All around things are improving you guys!

Have a great weekend.

I think thats the same at most places . Pilots are a great bunch of guys to work with and pretty easy going. At this level in the game they know what a real snag is. Love working with you guys no matter how often you break things

[+cHange]

[dhc#]

What type of flying does the 705 operation do ? And where do they run, Alberta and/or BC elsewhere's?

Is it rig crew change work, or strictly sked stuff, and is it all based out of YYC or ?

Tx for response.

[Sky_Conqueror]

So I'm assuming that with all that positive change, wait times for poor low timers is lower than 2 years? I remember applying a few years ago and I was told it was 2 years minimum before m-a-y-b-e going on the flight line. I've moved on to other companies but I just wanted to know if that was still policy.

[+cHange]

What type of flying does the 705 operation do ? And where do they run, Alberta and/or BC elsewhere's?

Is it rig crew change work, or strictly sked stuff, and is it all based out of YYC or ?

Tx for response.

The dash 8 does both scheduled air service and charters. Mainly charters on the Dash 8. And they are crew changes within alberta, some stuff in BC occasionally for fishing charters and what not.

The 328 mainly flies the scheduled air service, with occasional charters throughout the week.

The scheduled air service flies from Calgary up to Fort Nelson hitting Edmonton and Fort St John on the way up/down. The dash does the same sched on days the 328 doesn't.

There has been talk of a BC base for our 705 but that has been in the rumor mill for a very long time. Currently we have some routes that are operated by our other sibling companies that we'd like to have back, but need to facilitate the right crewing, aircraft number, and structure for. Hence why this BC 705 base has been chatted about for a long while.

So I'm assuming that with all that positive change, wait times for poor low timers is lower than 2 years? I remember applying a few years ago and I was told it was 2 years minimum before m-a-y-b-e going on the flight line. I've moved on to other companies but I just wanted to know if that was still policy.

This is an area to be fixed as agreed, is not the most effective way to bring on low time pilot's. Although as unfortunate as it sounds, low timers are dime and a dozen. While this isn't to be used as an excuse, it definitely holds an asset for low timers to think about. You are in line to fly a machine that's above 12.5 in a big city. Whilst up north offers quicker advancements onto smaller planes *usually* / we have been offering slower advancements onto bigger planes in more sought after cities. To each their own however, and it's always mentioned in our interview process with low timers that if they find a flying job, we expect them to take it and if they desire to reapply with some time under their belt. So whilst it's on the priority list to fix/organize, we need to deal with more immediate concerns. But from my understanding the Tier 3 program is on the list of things to review and restructure so that more organization is held in the process of doing a non-related flying job, and advancing to an aircraft.

[cHange-]

Where should I begin? The aviation community is small, so I may seem vague, yet try to describe my and some other fantastically epic stories that would contradict most laws from labour Canada, as clear as possible. My goal is not to sewer the man at the top of the CMA food chain (even though, he has sewered numerous fine captains in his day, I'll touch on that later), but to pass on my stories, so for the right person, they aren't going to work every day hating themselves for joining, and can’t quit, cause they can't afford to walk away from the bond. Someone once told me if I included "in my opinion" then it isn't defamation, not that my intent is that, but rather give my 2 cents, so in my opinion;
I started off as a low timer; my interview was that of the same caliber of a NASA or Cathay interview. I assumed I would be training beside Chris Hadfield, doing space walks and flying inverted with maverick. The interview went well, as a walking encyclopedia I corrected both the CP and HR lady numerous times. The material that was used was from regs 10 years prior, cutting edge, progressive airline. I waited for several weeks until I received word about my spectacular offer. I was ecstatic! Join the ranks of NASA, off to space, bitches!
It felt like nine years of throwing bags, checking people in, doing this and that. Getting periodic updates on the low pilot program (which means once). But after two years (the wait now, is in excess of three years), I got the call!! Guess who is going to space? Nope, not me, got to do groundschool first. In three days from now. Holy F, good thing I've been studying every night after I tugged one out, thinking of the high life the pilots have. Over nighting in various hot spots of western Canada, banging babes.... off to g-school I go! Couldn't wait to meet the other awesome candidates that would be joining me in a jerk off circle talking about the 1900, daaaaaang!!
Roll up to the 7 star hotel in yvr, bums shooting up in parking lot. I tipped my hat, grabbed my package and gave them an air shot. Strolling up to the front desk, threw down my ID, and expected the presidential suit. Nope, just your standard two bedroom hotel room. Mini fridge - check, coffee maker - check, big leagues.
Take a look in the bathroom, and there was a guy taking a s**t. With the door open. Nice. Hey bud, how’s life? Turns out folks, CMA gives you a roommate in groundschool. And they don't tell you. Till you interrupt a dude, mid-wipe. Perfect. Study buddies. But wait! This is going to be a competitive groundschool? Best mark wins? Oh no, best mark gets their choice of base, if there is room. That’s right, you don't know where you'll be living in three weeks. Nope, not until you pass your ppc. And then if you’re lucky you get 5 days. Its okay, CMA pilots are balling, huge pay cheques, don't you worry about that mortgage in Vancouver, you are going to rent a hole in Calgary. We'll even fly you there. Via the milk run. Yep, you fly yvr to yyc in 9 hours air time. Your ass is going to be sore. Almost as sore as that time you got drunk in college... I strayed from the story. Back to the competition. Seniority only means anything four times in your career at CMA. This is the first time. Anyways, groundschool was good, contracted instructor, fun times. Of the 5 or 6, 2 didn’t make it. Pretty common story. Don't worry about getting paid, cause you ain't. Not till you get ppc'd. And I think the record is 6 weeks, we were lucky, longest guy took 4 weeks from start of ground school till he was signed off. We be making some huge money soon boys! Now for the ride, as a low timer, I hadn't flown anything except for my microsoft flight sim on my weekly transatlantic flight in 2 years. It was pounded into me that the big dog wasn't going to pay for more than 8 hours of training. If I wasn't ready, then F off. Also, as a low timer, I was always reminded that I was lucky, the low time program was in jeopardy, buuuuuuull s**t bra, there is no way anyone but a dumb low timer will work in yyc, yvr, yeg for $9. He'd go bankrupt paying people a fare wage. Again, sidetracked. Back to the training.... Pheuph, good thing I downloaded the 1900 onto my flight sim, this will be easy. Turns out, it wasn't. People don't want to be in key roles because they want to, it’s because they get paid that much more. It means duey can give him that superiority over the other guys, it means he can feed his ego. And of course, make a dent in his Prius payment. Usually it’s about the money. Cause when you get paid s**t, dirt sounds a lot better. My ride was in Calgary, which was good, because all my training was done in yvr. I like surprises. I hate parallel runways. However, the ride was amazing, the fellow was a CMA management guy, and wow, he knew that there isn't a healthy chance that half the low timers could pass with this kind of training. So he said, we have 3 hours, I have a list of s**t you need to do, and we'll keep doing them till you get it right. Fair enough? Yep. Sounds good. Unfortunately, that sort of common sense is long gone. Now, there is transport Canada standard. And CMA standard. We are talking NASA s**t folks. And if you fail as a low timer? Yep you guessed it, start at the bottom of the list. You thought you’d be captain in 3-4 years? You're looking at 7-8 mav. Don't F up.
Line indoc was good, flying around at mach 3, chasing babes. One of the captains used to love to take his FOs to the international side of yvr while wearing tunics and hats. He'd get a boner thinking of the people that were talking about him. I swear he'd jerk off to himself at night. People say that every company has one dick. CMA is no exception, for some reason, they have the best dicks in the country. And lots of them. Ego driven sobs. Guess what day it is today bitches? Pay day, back in the day, CMA was paying FOs a ton of dollars, every two weeks for a first year all star? $804! Boy band money! But as the fellow who started this thread said, it be better now. Too bad, cause living in poverty is F-ing fun! I've learned a little over the years, and one big one is, the big dog, nick named low cost. Is one cheap mofo, the corners that were cut were amazing. However, he'd probably splurge on a fancy big city lawyer.....
Now, good old CMA is head quartered strategically in the middle of nowhere. You need to talk to management? Hr? Call'em up! Ha! Keep dreaming mav, they never answer, you leave'em a message, they'll call you back. When? F it, they probably won't. The second time seniority means something, Vacation! That’s right, the zed fares! Goodness, let’s fly across the world and party like rockstars! Don't be changing your mind now, you can't do it yourself, nooooo sir, you need to fill out a pass request and wait 7-10 days. HQ wants to know where everyone is all the time, these guys are pro's! Let me give you a scenario, you are in yyc trying to get back to yvr. You booked on AC zed fares, the flights are packed, cause they cancelled one. S**t, now what? Hmmm reciprocal pilot agreement with another carrier? F That cowboy! No sir! You are paying full fare on wj. Haha better strap in Fabio, jump seat will never happen. Why? Cause it’s called the RECIPROCAL pilot agreement. Remember that time I suggested someone is cheap? Well, maybe someone is a good business man, maybe someone has the idea that instead of giving a seat out for free, then that person will pay full fare. F trying to boost morale, and pretend to be a real airline! That’s right! However, that may not be the reason that we don't have jumpseat, I actually asked hr that once. Maybe twice. Maybe three times. And the answer? Never the same. Yet all entertaining. Let me share.
"We don't have the correct computer program"
"It’s in the works"
"The 1900 doesn't have a jumpseat"
"Our company id's aren't controlled, old employees that didn't turn in their id's could travel on our name"
"Why"
And my favorite;
"It’s not fair to the other employees, pilots getting something extra" I watched an individual get upgraded and then was assigned a different base. He commuted for 11 months. It took him 11 months to get back to live with his wife and kid! He had to pay full fare going back to his assigned base every week. You are probably s***ing in your shorts saying that’s not fair. Company response, shouldn't have taken the upgrade. Don't go bankrupt son, we need you to work.
Upgrades, Pass fail ratio for upgrades? Take a guess Houdini, if you guessed half, you are bang on. Some of these bros have 3k on the 1900, and are getting tanked? Remember, CMA doesn't pay for top notch trainers, noooo sir, these fellas have their own criteria, he doesn't like the way you smell, doesn't like your accent. You are F-ed mister. Now, let’s think about AC or WJ, what is there fail rate? Oh wait, change+ might not like that comparison. Let’s try sunwest and north cariboo with a splash of air georgian. Point is, training dollars are spent in absurd ways, and you are stuck for an extra year in the penalty box. Penalty box you ask? Oh yes, let’s give you a cherry of an example. 4k captain, charter to some rustic vacation hole gets a master warning light on landing. Cabin Door. Hang on to your nut sack! Oh wait. We just landed. Perfect. Let’s call up dispatch, homies. 'Sorry fellas, can't fly. Got a light.' A conversation with the Kiwi and guess who is in the penalty box. That’s right, the captain that made the decision not to go. A safety orientated decision. His punishment. No more charters. 4 months. Who cares you ask? CMA has 'charter pay' to convince pilots that we are like the other players. An extra $75 per charter. Huge dollars for a guy eating kd 4 times a week. He averaged 10 charters a month. Pull out your calculator point dexter, you are looking at a weeks’ worth of hookers and blow.
The company moral for everyone is in the tube, McDonald night shift workers have a better outlook then the CMA staff. And the pilots are the worst, they are treated by management with no respect, the company is always trying to F you without any lube. 13 hour day? "Hey we need you to reposition the a/c" you try piping up and say hell no, duty time bitches!! Then they throw you a faceful of unforeseen! Wtf? Are you high? Any discrepancy with dispatch? They say 'oh let me grab the CP, you can talk to him' perfect, then I'll be talking to the CP/owner/VP/CASO. Splendid, that guy can fire me! S******t better throw some gas in that bird! I’m oughta here!! Relationship with maintenance? Ahhh yes, some of my good friends were in maintenance. Smartest guys in the room, you bring them a snag, first question, is it in the book? Hells no? Perfect! Early night boys!! And talk about low morale, second lowest in the company. There was a time when the mtc boys pooled all their pop can money and such and bought a pool table, for after work and such, had it for two weeks in the mtc break room, boys were happy, laughter was heard. Low cost walks though the hanger one day. Sorry fellas, no room for fun. Lose it hombre. Now, change+ is thinking that this is all made up and bull, but I'm going to remind everyone, that smithers is nick named 'moon base alpha' cause of its proximity to reality. Things aren't the same there as the cow town and china town.
Ahhhh yes vacation, fairly standard bidding process, seniority based, no one goes on vacation at the same time, why? Cause they don't have enough staff! You need a day off, call in sick! Their sick day program is amazing, worse than your local corner store! They are changing it, their response for the last 10 years.... but don't you worry about that. We are talking vaca, let’s say you asked for a week or 2 in March. You don't find out, till Feb 25th. When the rosters come out. You'd think they would post a vacation schedule, but that doesn’t hit the mean streets till at least may. Yes sir, they are 'too busy' to give a s**t about you sweetheart. Now, let’s think of the logistical nightmare we have on our hands. You might be going on holiday with one of your super model girlfriends, but you can't commit, cause some fat blonde in smithers can't make up a friggin schedule. So you play it off as you are doing a last minute deal on itravel2000. But guess what Christopher Columbus, you picked spring break! You'll be lucky to get a week in mexico city! Its okay, we have zed fares. Go to the airport, look at the departure board and mail in your request. 7-10 days. Fml,
you want to get married? Don't tell smithers, they have a great reputation for forgetting about weddings. 'Sorry sugar tits, we can't get married in two weeks, rosters came out, I’m working, can we reschedule? But, good news, I only work four days during our honeymoon' that has happened to 3 of my bros, Three different outcomes; one guy did a shift trade, simple. One guy called in sick, and the other guy quit. But, since they needed him, they just gave him his days off. Added stress around your wedding is fun, lowers the blood pressure.
And then we have the direct entries, now, not everyone was an f-ing retard. But oh so many. And up to 6 months ago, first year 1900 captain, $40k. Guess what kind of applicants you'll be looking at? Just right gems. Oh wow, just right dangerous. Throw them with a new low timer, and you've got the blind leading the deaf.
As a gravity defying low timer, I got to sit to the right of an individual who spent 3000 hours in the friggin circuit. He sir, is CMA captain material, we are talking grade a alberta beef. Every question imaginable from the ground up, BOOM! He has the answer. A walking, talking, none drinking, vegan virgin. Oh s**t fellas, we are talking maverick material. But! When you get this fella outside 5 miles from a control zone, we are looking at a new man. He's grabbing the yolk like an orangutan strangling a kitten. He's looking to cancel ifr when its 400 ovc at 2 miles going into some s**t hole with an ndb alpha. Easy there monkey man! But, you get what you pay for. The stories I have would literally fill a novel. Some funny, some romantic, all true. A lot unbelievable. But! The job gets done, and no one cares how. The phone call will always be 'why didn't you go' never, 'why did you go?' This place is licensed as a 704 705 operation. Yet, run worse than buffalo joe's place. The company has built its operation on the backs of their employees. It’s over 25 years old now. And only now are they are claiming big changes? Desperate times call for desperate measures.
What I’m trying to say, CMA has always claimed they are changing, they are adapting. I was there for 8 years, saw nothing for the better change. It’s a race for the bottom, CMA has bagged that one. They want retention, good luck. Get new management. Smithers is the puppeteer, you are the puppet, cowboy. Good luck. Don't stand up too straight, you show management you have a back bone, you are f-d. I watched numerous fellas go for interviews at ac, wj and how would an airline that pride themselves on being a feeder to the big leagues work with you here? Give you a hand? Ohhhh wait, no sir. Captain Kangaroo doesn't like to hire people. Too expensive! You need a day off, you call in sick! You need a reference? F*******k that!! You need to use changes+ or some other manager, but wait! They need someone in charge. What are you going to do? That fella has sewered more folks then not, and think about, it would only make sense, the part owner has a choice to avoid another training bill. Saving himself a few dollars, giving himself a pat on the back, avoiding the painful NASA like interview process. This place is run by two child-like folks, the pilots have no real chief pilot, and terrible moral. The answer would be to unionize, or get new management. I was there for too long, and watched it make myself and many other people worse off, mentally and ethically. It is a perfect scenario for disaster. The great thing about CMA was the time, 100hour months more often than not, in and out in 3 -4 years, perfect for the folks headed to ac and wj. Now, the flying has dried up, AC flying has been gone for almost 2 years, charters are sparse and I sure hope encore takes a huge chunk of their flying. I do have a grudge with CMA, they do not treat their employees with respect. If change is in the air, it’s been a long time coming. Have super low expectations going in there, and you'll still be disappointed. As for the other two times seniority matters, they don't.

[AJV]

from my sources an FO (year one) will not make 40-50 at CMA not net, not gross not even if you include per diems. Apples to apples NCA pays their BE02 Capts about 10g more per year (again year 1)

[iflyforpie]

Yeah, and I have a feeling that it is 'per diems' that are what makes this 'take home pay' so good.

However, the bank will probably not let you take credit for it when asking them for money, plus you still have to pay for your meals and expenses on the go.

[AJV]

Yeah, and I have a feeling that it is 'per diems' that are what makes this 'take home pay' so good.

However, the bank will probably not let you take credit for it when asking them for money, plus you still have to pay for your meals and expenses on the go.

4-5 grand in per diems is not going to turn 31-33 into 40-50 no matter which calculator you use. Capts are in the 40 range and if you add the per diem then you hit 45ish (take home pay)

[+cHange]

from my sources an FO (year one) will not make 40-50 at CMA not net, not gross not even if you include per diems. Apples to apples NCA pays their BE02 Capts about 10g more per year (again year 1)

Your sources are forgetting to tell you how much they make flying charters every year. Its hard to break a reputation but speculation on these boards will not answer your questions. Feel free to apply and learn quickly how your pay adds up.

I'll tell you right from the get go that 31k is not what we pay our fos on the 1900 especially not the 2500 hour average they are being hired at.

Captains are not at 40k.

You may want to check your sources ajv.

[AJV]

Your sources are forgetting to tell you how much they make flying charters every year. Its hard to break a reputation but speculation on these boards will not answer your questions. Feel free to apply and learn quickly how your pay adds up.

I'll tell you right from the get go that 31k is not what we pay our fos on the 1900 especially not the 2500 hour average they are being hired at.

Captains are not at 40k.

You may want to check your sources ajv.

So what you are saying is you are not starting everyone off at year 1 pay? well then that is a change. My source, I trust fully and not just with information about a company. Extra money for charters? Besides working OT what extra is there? Also the 40K was take home using a tax calculator using the recent raise. I am trying to respect your "desire" to keep the wage secret which is in my opinion not the way to attract new and potentially long term employees as you put it. Applying and getting an interview, spending money to go and be interviewed just to find out the details of a position, that is interesting, don't you think you could save potential employees the time and money, your company time and money by laying out what is expected from said employee and what the compensation is? You would attract only people that are truly interested in becoming a part of your team, not wasting your HR dept's time on interviews with people that may turn down the position once the entire pie is revealed to them. We see the crust and a little bit of what might be a cherry filling, but we won't know if it is sweet cherry or sour rhubarb until we pay to the pie?
I believe CMA is a good place and is improving, I know people there and have met lots of smiling people at FBOs here and there.
BTW I don't want anyone to think I am bashing or out to get you, I would just like the facts.
Cheers
AJV

[foxyfoxtrot]

So why the big secret in the pay? Why not post it?

Since +cHange has had ample opportunity to give you an answer and hasn't, let me enlighten you...

If CMA discloses starting salaries the majority of their current staff will quit because they are secretly paying new FO's (with little experience) more than senior FO's and some Captains.

They will also lure new hires with promises of certain bases like Vancouver, to get them to sign a bond and before the ink dries they will send you elsewhere like Calgary to do Contrails charters without notice.

These positive changes are just bandaids. CMA still needs a lot of improvements to be worthy of their self proclaimed new and improved image - starting with the integrity of their management team, or lack there of.

[+cHange]

Your sources are forgetting to tell you how much they make flying charters every year. Its hard to break a reputation but speculation on these boards will not answer your questions. Feel free to apply and learn quickly how your pay adds up.

I'll tell you right from the get go that 31k is not what we pay our fos on the 1900 especially not the 2500 hour average they are being hired at.

Captains are not at 40k.

You may want to check your sources ajv.

So what you are saying is you are not starting everyone off at year 1 pay? well then that is a change. My source, I trust fully and not just with information about a company. Extra money for charters? Besides working OT what extra is there? Also the 40K was take home using a tax calculator using the recent raise. I am trying to respect your "desire" to keep the wage secret which is in my opinion not the way to attract new and potentially long term employees as you put it. Applying and getting an interview, spending money to go and be interviewed just to find out the details of a position, that is interesting, don't you think you could save potential employees the time and money, your company time and money by laying out what is expected from said employee and what the compensation is? You would attract only people that are truly interested in becoming a part of your team, not wasting your HR dept's time on interviews with people that may turn down the position once the entire pie is revealed to them. We see the crust and a little bit of what might be a cherry filling, but we won't know if it is sweet cherry or sour rhubarb until we pay to the pie?
I believe CMA is a good place and is improving, I know people there and have met lots of smiling people at FBOs here and there.
BTW I don't want anyone to think I am bashing or out to get you, I would just like the facts.
Cheers
AJV

I believe you have opened up an excellent point of discussion, and I hope I can respond to it as clearly as possible.

No, every one does not start year 1 pay. It's DOE as it always has been. (Your source should know this).

Yes, we pay charter pay. It's a significant amount if you do a good year of charters.

Besides over time there's charter and per diems (which I don't really count as salary, but does account for take home pay. Whether you bank on bringing food from home in a lunch box or spending it on wings it's up to you). For days you spend away from base the per diem covers more than required to feed you well. Also, if you assume a training role you get reimbursed on top of base salary. Both in a yearly pay increase, and monthly increase depending on the training accrued, be from sim training, to line indoc, to our ground school staff. And there's always room for more people in our training department. The money is good if you want to show up and do your job and go home. The more involvement however, the more money - this is logical I'm sure.

Regarding your 40k comment. Our base salaries plus the additional pay through different means makes it a competitive pay scale. So I disagree with you calculations. Again, your source is almost using outdated information.

I respect your take on how you feel people should be attracted to come to work for us. If I was in a position to give out company information such as pay scale, I would. Plenty of comparison has been given on other operators pay, and how we measure up today. You may come here expecting something different regardless of pay scales being published or not.

Like we all know, pay is not the only thing that pulls people to a company. It certainly is an aspect, but not the aspect for most. So you have to look at what you are gaining by coming to CMA. As a lower time pilot there's lots of room to build your career for a solid future here. Whether that's to stay here long term or to move on to your dream job flying big iron. As an experienced candidate we certainly believe that with the changes already implemented with the ones coming, for the right individual, CMA is a long term gig. But since that varies with everyone, the answer for "who" will find CMA to be the right gig won't be found on some aviation forum. It will be done in a one on one interview experience where personal questions can be asked formally.

[cHange-]

Where should I begin? The aviation community is small, so I may seem vague, yet try to describe my and some other fantastically epic stories that would contradict most laws from labour Canada, as clear as possible. My goal is not to sewer the man at the top of the CMA food chain (even though, he has sewered numerous fine captains in his day, I'll touch on that later), but to pass on my stories, so for the right person, they aren't going to work every day hating themselves for joining, and can’t quit, cause they can't afford to walk away from the bond. Someone once told me if I included "in my opinion" then it isn't defamation, not that my intent is that, but rather give my 2 cents, so in my opinion;
I started off as a low timer; my interview was that of the same caliber of a NASA or Cathay interview. I assumed I would be training beside Chris Hadfield, doing space walks and flying inverted with maverick. The interview went well, as a walking encyclopedia I corrected both the CP and HR lady numerous times. The material that was used was from regs 10 years prior, cutting edge, progressive airline. I waited for several weeks until I received word about my spectacular offer. I was ecstatic! Join the ranks of NASA, off to space, bitches!
It felt like nine years of throwing bags, checking people in, doing this and that. Getting periodic updates on the low pilot program (which means once). But after two years (the wait now, is in excess of three years), I got the call!! Guess who is going to space? Nope, not me, got to do groundschool first. In three days from now. Holy F, good thing I've been studying every night after I tugged one out, thinking of the high life the pilots have. Over nighting in various hot spots of western Canada, banging babes.... off to g-school I go! Couldn't wait to meet the other awesome candidates that would be joining me in a jerk off circle talking about the 1900, daaaaaang!!
Roll up to the 7 star hotel in yvr, bums shooting up in parking lot. I tipped my hat, grabbed my package and gave them an air shot. Strolling up to the front desk, threw down my ID, and expected the presidential suit. Nope, just your standard two bedroom hotel room. Mini fridge - check, coffee maker - check, big leagues.
Take a look in the bathroom, and there was a guy taking a s**t. With the door open. Nice. Hey bud, how’s life? Turns out folks, CMA gives you a roommate in groundschool. And they don't tell you. Till you interrupt a dude, mid-wipe. Perfect. Study buddies. But wait! This is going to be a competitive groundschool? Best mark wins? Oh no, best mark gets their choice of base, if there is room. That’s right, you don't know where you'll be living in three weeks. Nope, not until you pass your ppc. And then if you’re lucky you get 5 days. Its okay, CMA pilots are balling, huge pay cheques, don't you worry about that mortgage in Vancouver, you are going to rent a hole in Calgary. We'll even fly you there. Via the milk run. Yep, you fly yvr to yyc in 9 hours air time. Your ass is going to be sore. Almost as sore as that time you got drunk in college... I strayed from the story. Back to the competition. Seniority only means anything four times in your career at CMA. This is the first time. Anyways, groundschool was good, contracted instructor, fun times. Of the 5 or 6, 2 didn’t make it. Pretty common story. Don't worry about getting paid, cause you ain't. Not till you get ppc'd. And I think the record is 6 weeks, we were lucky, longest guy took 4 weeks from start of ground school till he was signed off. We be making some huge money soon boys! Now for the ride, as a low timer, I hadn't flown anything except for my microsoft flight sim on my weekly transatlantic flight in 2 years. It was pounded into me that the big dog wasn't going to pay for more than 8 hours of training. If I wasn't ready, then F off. Also, as a low timer, I was always reminded that I was lucky, the low time program was in jeopardy, buuuuuuull s**t bra, there is no way anyone but a dumb low timer will work in yyc, yvr, yeg for $9. He'd go bankrupt paying people a fare wage. Again, sidetracked. Back to the training.... Pheuph, good thing I downloaded the 1900 onto my flight sim, this will be easy. Turns out, it wasn't. People don't want to be in key roles because they want to, it’s because they get paid that much more. It means duey can give him that superiority over the other guys, it means he can feed his ego. And of course, make a dent in his Prius payment. Usually it’s about the money. Cause when you get paid s**t, dirt sounds a lot better. My ride was in Calgary, which was good, because all my training was done in yvr. I like surprises. I hate parallel runways. However, the ride was amazing, the fellow was a CMA management guy, and wow, he knew that there isn't a healthy chance that half the low timers could pass with this kind of training. So he said, we have 3 hours, I have a list of s**t you need to do, and we'll keep doing them till you get it right. Fair enough? Yep. Sounds good. Unfortunately, that sort of common sense is long gone. Now, there is transport Canada standard. And CMA standard. We are talking NASA s**t folks. And if you fail as a low timer? Yep you guessed it, start at the bottom of the list. You thought you’d be captain in 3-4 years? You're looking at 7-8 mav. Don't F up.
Line indoc was good, flying around at mach 3, chasing babes. One of the captains used to love to take his FOs to the international side of yvr while wearing tunics and hats. He'd get a boner thinking of the people that were talking about him. I swear he'd jerk off to himself at night. People say that every company has one dick. CMA is no exception, for some reason, they have the best dicks in the country. And lots of them. Ego driven sobs. Guess what day it is today bitches? Pay day, back in the day, CMA was paying FOs a ton of dollars, every two weeks for a first year all star? $804! Boy band money! But as the fellow who started this thread said, it be better now. Too bad, cause living in poverty is F-ing fun! I've learned a little over the years, and one big one is, the big dog, nick named low cost. Is one cheap mofo, the corners that were cut were amazing. However, he'd probably splurge on a fancy big city lawyer.....
Now, good old CMA is head quartered strategically in the middle of nowhere. You need to talk to management? Hr? Call'em up! Ha! Keep dreaming mav, they never answer, you leave'em a message, they'll call you back. When? F it, they probably won't. The second time seniority means something, Vacation! That’s right, the zed fares! Goodness, let’s fly across the world and party like rockstars! Don't be changing your mind now, you can't do it yourself, nooooo sir, you need to fill out a pass request and wait 7-10 days. HQ wants to know where everyone is all the time, these guys are pro's! Let me give you a scenario, you are in yyc trying to get back to yvr. You booked on AC zed fares, the flights are packed, cause they cancelled one. S**t, now what? Hmmm reciprocal pilot agreement with another carrier? F That cowboy! No sir! You are paying full fare on wj. Haha better strap in Fabio, jump seat will never happen. Why? Cause it’s called the RECIPROCAL pilot agreement. Remember that time I suggested someone is cheap? Well, maybe someone is a good business man, maybe someone has the idea that instead of giving a seat out for free, then that person will pay full fare. F trying to boost morale, and pretend to be a real airline! That’s right! However, that may not be the reason that we don't have jumpseat, I actually asked hr that once. Maybe twice. Maybe three times. And the answer? Never the same. Yet all entertaining. Let me share.
"We don't have the correct computer program"
"It’s in the works"
"The 1900 doesn't have a jumpseat"
"Our company id's aren't controlled, old employees that didn't turn in their id's could travel on our name"
"Why"
And my favorite;
"It’s not fair to the other employees, pilots getting something extra" I watched an individual get upgraded and then was assigned a different base. He commuted for 11 months. It took him 11 months to get back to live with his wife and kid! He had to pay full fare going back to his assigned base every week. You are probably s***ing in your shorts saying that’s not fair. Company response, shouldn't have taken the upgrade. Don't go bankrupt son, we need you to work.
Upgrades, Pass fail ratio for upgrades? Take a guess Houdini, if you guessed half, you are bang on. Some of these bros have 3k on the 1900, and are getting tanked? Remember, CMA doesn't pay for top notch trainers, noooo sir, these fellas have their own criteria, he doesn't like the way you smell, doesn't like your accent. You are F-ed mister. Now, let’s think about AC or WJ, what is there fail rate? Oh wait, change+ might not like that comparison. Let’s try sunwest and north cariboo with a splash of air georgian. Point is, training dollars are spent in absurd ways, and you are stuck for an extra year in the penalty box. Penalty box you ask? Oh yes, let’s give you a cherry of an example. 4k captain, charter to some rustic vacation hole gets a master warning light on landing. Cabin Door. Hang on to your nut sack! Oh wait. We just landed. Perfect. Let’s call up dispatch, homies. 'Sorry fellas, can't fly. Got a light.' A conversation with the Kiwi and guess who is in the penalty box. That’s right, the captain that made the decision not to go. A safety orientated decision. His punishment. No more charters. 4 months. Who cares you ask? CMA has 'charter pay' to convince pilots that we are like the other players. An extra $75 per charter. Huge dollars for a guy eating kd 4 times a week. He averaged 10 charters a month. Pull out your calculator point dexter, you are looking at a weeks’ worth of hookers and blow.
The company moral for everyone is in the tube, McDonald night shift workers have a better outlook then the CMA staff. And the pilots are the worst, they are treated by management with no respect, the company is always trying to F you without any lube. 13 hour day? "Hey we need you to reposition the a/c" you try piping up and say hell no, duty time bitches!! Then they throw you a faceful of unforeseen! Wtf? Are you high? Any discrepancy with dispatch? They say 'oh let me grab the CP, you can talk to him' perfect, then I'll be talking to the CP/owner/VP/CASO. Splendid, that guy can fire me! S******t better throw some gas in that bird! I’m oughta here!! Relationship with maintenance? Ahhh yes, some of my good friends were in maintenance. Smartest guys in the room, you bring them a snag, first question, is it in the book? Hells no? Perfect! Early night boys!! And talk about low morale, second lowest in the company. There was a time when the mtc boys pooled all their pop can money and such and bought a pool table, for after work and such, had it for two weeks in the mtc break room, boys were happy, laughter was heard. Low cost walks though the hanger one day. Sorry fellas, no room for fun. Lose it hombre. Now, change+ is thinking that this is all made up and bull, but I'm going to remind everyone, that smithers is nick named 'moon base alpha' cause of its proximity to reality. Things aren't the same there as the cow town and china town.
Ahhhh yes vacation, fairly standard bidding process, seniority based, no one goes on vacation at the same time, why? Cause they don't have enough staff! You need a day off, call in sick! Their sick day program is amazing, worse than your local corner store! They are changing it, their response for the last 10 years.... but don't you worry about that. We are talking vaca, let’s say you asked for a week or 2 in March. You don't find out, till Feb 25th. When the rosters come out. You'd think they would post a vacation schedule, but that doesn’t hit the mean streets till at least may. Yes sir, they are 'too busy' to give a s**t about you sweetheart. Now, let’s think of the logistical nightmare we have on our hands. You might be going on holiday with one of your super model girlfriends, but you can't commit, cause some fat blonde in smithers can't make up a friggin schedule. So you play it off as you are doing a last minute deal on itravel2000. But guess what Christopher Columbus, you picked spring break! You'll be lucky to get a week in mexico city! Its okay, we have zed fares. Go to the airport, look at the departure board and mail in your request. 7-10 days. Fml,
you want to get married? Don't tell smithers, they have a great reputation for forgetting about weddings. 'Sorry sugar tits, we can't get married in two weeks, rosters came out, I’m working, can we reschedule? But, good news, I only work four days during our honeymoon' that has happened to 3 of my bros, Three different outcomes; one guy did a shift trade, simple. One guy called in sick, and the other guy quit. But, since they needed him, they just gave him his days off. Added stress around your wedding is fun, lowers the blood pressure.
And then we have the direct entries, now, not everyone was an f-ing retard. But oh so many. And up to 6 months ago, first year 1900 captain, $40k. Guess what kind of applicants you'll be looking at? Just right gems. Oh wow, just right dangerous. Throw them with a new low timer, and you've got the blind leading the deaf.
As a gravity defying low timer, I got to sit to the right of an individual who spent 3000 hours in the friggin circuit. He sir, is CMA captain material, we are talking grade a alberta beef. Every question imaginable from the ground up, BOOM! He has the answer. A walking, talking, none drinking, vegan virgin. Oh s**t fellas, we are talking maverick material. But! When you get this fella outside 5 miles from a control zone, we are looking at a new man. He's grabbing the yolk like an orangutan strangling a kitten. He's looking to cancel ifr when its 400 ovc at 2 miles going into some s**t hole with an ndb alpha. Easy there monkey man! But, you get what you pay for. The stories I have would literally fill a novel. Some funny, some romantic, all true. A lot unbelievable. But! The job gets done, and no one cares how. The phone call will always be 'why didn't you go' never, 'why did you go?' This place is licensed as a 704 705 operation. Yet, run worse than buffalo joe's place. The company has built its operation on the backs of their employees. It’s over 25 years old now. And only now are they are claiming big changes? Desperate times call for desperate measures.
What I’m trying to say, CMA has always claimed they are changing, they are adapting. I was there for 8 years, saw nothing for the better change. It’s a race for the bottom, CMA has bagged that one. They want retention, good luck. Get new management. Smithers is the puppeteer, you are the puppet, cowboy. Good luck. Don't stand up too straight, you show management you have a back bone, you are f-d. I watched numerous fellas go for interviews at ac, wj and how would an airline that pride themselves on being a feeder to the big leagues work with you here? Give you a hand? Ohhhh wait, no sir. Captain Kangaroo doesn't like to hire people. Too expensive! You need a day off, you call in sick! You need a reference? F*******k that!! You need to use changes+ or some other manager, but wait! They need someone in charge. What are you going to do? That fella has sewered more folks then not, and think about, it would only make sense, the part owner has a choice to avoid another training bill. Saving himself a few dollars, giving himself a pat on the back, avoiding the painful NASA like interview process. This place is run by two child-like folks, the pilots have no real chief pilot, and terrible moral. The answer would be to unionize, or get new management. I was there for too long, and watched it make myself and many other people worse off, mentally and ethically. It is a perfect scenario for disaster. The great thing about CMA was the time, 100hour months more often than not, in and out in 3 -4 years, perfect for the folks headed to ac and wj. Now, the flying has dried up, AC flying has been gone for almost 2 years, charters are sparse and I sure hope encore takes a huge chunk of their flying. I do have a grudge with CMA, they do not treat their employees with respect. If change is in the air, it’s been a long time coming. Have super low expectations going in there, and you'll still be disappointed. As for the other two times seniority matters, they don't.

[human garbage]

That was awesome. I never thought I would read something so funny and sad at the same time. Thanks for posting...

[Airborne28]

Great writing cHange-!!! thanks for posting.

I can vouch for everything he said. Worked at CMA for 7 years, ramp to 3000 hr captain.

[xsbank]

This thread is a lot of fun - who are you going to believe? Somebody blowing a lot of smoke and no hard numbers, or somebody who "lived the dream" for 7 or 8 years? Sounds like the list of qualified pilots lined up to work there has finally dried up as the reputation and poor treatment has finally come back to bite them. You can only beat a dog for so long before it turns on you - karma, some might say...

Exactly what Doc and Cat and myself have been saying for so long, to go for the quality of life and stop chasing the tin. Sounds like there isn't any of that here.

Also, per diems are supposed to pay for your expenses while you are on the road - they are NEVER supposed to be part of your compensation and should never be included in your pay. When you are required to be on the road, the company is supposed to pay for your keep.

Sharing hotel rooms is so third world I can't even think of a polite way to comment.

Having to pay for a seat to commute is simply abusive. Smithers is as hard to get to as any other "Northern" town, about a 16 hour drive from Vancouver... How the h. do you live in Calgary on 40,000 a year, unless you live in Mum's basement?

My understanding of the meaning of "unforeseen" is a mechanical issue, weather issue or a sick passenger, not an aircraft repositioning at the whim of management. Tell me Mr Change+, does management have the same understanding of unforeseen as I?

By the way, is that rotten old high-stress approach into Terrace still in existence or is there finally a GPS approach?

[YXDPilot]

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