Air Tindi Be200 Captains

[Brown Bear]

They left out the part where they are part of the ONLY airline in the entire country that requires pilots to take random drug and alcohol testing. Pretty sure it's a pre employment requirement as well. So, if you're happy about not being trusted, feel free to apply. Keep in mind, there are several King Air capt jobs advertised right here on avcanada that DO NOT require this blatant violation of your rights and freedoms.

[jpilot77]

I assume the drug testing only started after the TSB found drugs in the pilot that crashed their Caravan.

[Doc]

And that would make it Okay?

[Prairiefire]

Now now now, they're not the only company. For example, their friendly neighbours at ASC are also on the random testing plan. Now Asc only brought BACK random testing after the tindi findings, they originally were getting rid of it. I think "first officer safety man" played a role in that.

[captcrunch2013]

Going back a few years or so, I won't reveal when.
I had a contract job doing random "forensic sampling"
and there is an incredible world out there of anybody
from one end of society to the other, pilots included
who will do drugs, drink and fly without batting an eyelid.

Random testing is a very good idea and if you think it
infringes on your rights, then you should look for another job
where you can smoke dope all day and still get paid.

As for testing pilots, the security was a real problem.
The testing Airlines don't want a positive result,
and they would warn pilots, and make arrangements
to have pilots rushed out of the aircraft and into cars to
an unknown company safe house just to avoid testing.

The more remote the area, the more likely it is that drugs and or drink
become a problem. Interestingly Transport did more
snap surprise ramp inspections in the bush than the city.

Transport Canada needs to incorporate random drug and drink testing
as it cant rely upon airlines to do it to themselves.

[Beach 200]

So, when you get hired by Jazz for example. They tell you its a "Medical" but really your being tested for drugs!

I personally dont do drugs, and don't mind at all. Proves to fellow employers and employees, as well as passengers that the guy flying you around isn't a stoner!
Personally flying high or stoned is just as dangerous as flying drunk!

[rigpiggy]

We both know Only I could bring that plane down safely


I disagree with random drug tests until they do the same with doctors, judges, and politicians.

[Doc]

I personally dont do drugs, and don't mind at all.!

Spoken like someone completely ignorant of world history. The POLICE are not allowed to do random testing without cause (BTW, if there IS cause, I'm 100% on board) why should your employer? I don't have a grow op in my basement, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let the POLICE (COPS, not the rock group) in my house for a random inspection. I don't indulge in kiddy porn, but the police will need a warrant to check out my hard drive. Some of you people are just too eager to give up your rights. You know, that once these rights are gone, they're gone forever! Dope smoking is NOT a solo sport. You might have a glass of single malt, or a frosty beer by yourself, but NOBODY smokes dope alone. Somebody KNOWS who they are....no need to test everybody?
Bottom line. Who gave your employer rights that even law enforcement and the courts don't have? I didn't get the memo. Perhaps you did? Forward it to me, if you would. If you have "reason" to suspect that I'm using drugs, then by all means, test my dumb ass! I don't know what makes some of you people think it's any more important to be drug free as a pilot, than as a typical motorist bombing along the 400 series highways on a holiday weekend? We're just a bunch of blue collar non-professional workers! Professionals (read lawyers, doctors and the like) would NEVER allow their rights and freedoms to be eroded the way a bunch of dumb uneducated pilots would! Time to pull your self centred, self righteous heads out of your collective asses, and stand up for yourselves. Wars have been fought, people have died for nothing more than your rights and freedoms.......defend them!

Good morning Beech 200, you've been selected for today's random rectal exam......it's a slippery slope....don't go down it.

[TheStig]

Great debate, Doc as much as I can agree with your argument about slippery slopes, I think we all know why Tindi is testing its pilots (and it's not because of some movie). I don't believe this is about controlling anybody so much as it's a safety measure, and likely an insurance requirement. Airline passengers have given up their rights and are groped and scanned prior to boarding our aircraft, do they not deserve to be flown by pilots who are not under the influence of drugs? I wish only offenders were targeted as well, but has that system proven to be effective? It only takes <.01% to ruin things for the rest of us.

There is a fine balance between personal freedoms and public safety, I would be happy to undergo drug testing to increase the safety level of flying for the travelling public, in the same way I am willing to give up my 'right' to own an assault rifle to prevent lunatics from owning them as well.

To add something else, random drug testing of flight crews by local authorities (just prior to walking on board the aircraft) is common in both England and the Australia. There is nothing Airlines, Unions, or Canadian authorities can do about it either, if we want to play in their sandbox we play by their rules (which include much more stringent tolerances).

[matt foley]

Well don"t go flying commercially in Australia or NewZealand if you are opposed to drug testing. Not only do most companies have a drug test upon hire requirement but CASA(their TC) has random drug testing. And I do mean random as in evenings and weekends as well as showing up to a company and going "you, you and you two...come with me". Engineers, pilots and admin staff complete. I like it. Small inconvenience for HUGE benefits. Kind of lie CVR.

MF

[TheStig]

Well don"t go flying commercially in Australia or NewZealand if you are opposed to drug testing.

I don't think I said I was opposed to it? In fact, I'm not opposed at all to drug testing (didn't you read my post?), Alcohol testing, is a bit different in my opinion because alcohol is legal to consume, the breathalizer testing is extremely flawed (considering your career is on the line and things are often in the media before a proper blood test has even been completed), and there are huge variations on what the term 'under the influence' actually means. By UK standards is entirely possible to have 1 or 2 drinks 12-16 hours before your flight and still have a positive reading.

To be clear, I'm talking about Canadians flying FROM the UK and Australia back to Canada flying under CARs regulations, with Canadian licenses in Canadian registered aircraft. I'm not passing judgement, however simply thought it's worth noting though that drug and alcohol testing is an area we have to follow BOTH the CAR's and local regulations.

[learcapt]

I'm with you Beech 200... If you have nothing to worry about, who gives a shit. Don't like that Tindi does it, don't apply.

[Doc]

I would be happy to undergo drug testing to increase the safety level of flying for the travelling public, in the same way I am willing to give up my 'right' to own an assault rifle to prevent lunatics from owning them as well.
.

Nice thought. BUT You being "happy to undergo drug testing to increase the safety level of flying........" Will ONLY increase the safety level, IF you are the one on the drugs! Just like you "giving up your right to own an assault rifle......" will only increase public safety if YOU are the one planning to use the aforementioned rifle in an unsafe manner! THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE JUST DONT GET!!
Your willingness to give up YOUR rights will NOT help.

[Doc]

I'm with you Beech 200... If you have nothing to worry about, who gives a shit. Don't like that Tindi does it, don't apply.

Fine, I'll send some cops over to check out your hard drive. No kiddy porn? Nothing to worry about then, now is there? You don't deserve rights and freedoms if you don't have the balls to stand up for them.

[North Shore]

Hear, Hear! ^

[CD]

Lots of discussion in these other threads as well:

AvCanada: Air Tindi Fatal TSB Report To Be Released March 20, 2013
AvCanada: Random Drug and Alcohol Testing
AvCanada: BC Ferries riding "high"?

[shimmydampner]

Oh good, this discussion again, playing out exactly as the last one did, only this time disguised in the EMPLOYMENT section.

[AJV]

Fine, I'll send some cops over to check out your hard drive. No kiddy porn?

Holy Phack Doc! seriously?? you take this way too far!! I know you are all for peoples rights and so on but give your head a shake! this is not even something that should be used lightly or in a joking fashion! I have 2 little ones. Do not use this as an example it goes too far and I don't care if you have 8000+ posts. kiddie porn...

[Sulako]

Let's take a look at what the Ontario human rights commission says about pre-employment alcohol and drug testing. I have no idea whether Air Tindi requires this - and they may not, I'm just sharing information.

http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/policy-drug-an ... xamination

Testing for alcohol or drug use is a form of medical examination.

Employment-related medical examinations or inquiries, conducted as part of the applicant screening process, are prohibited under Section 23(2) of the Code.

Since drug testing cannot be shown to actually measure impairment, pre-employment drug testing should not be conducted.

Although there has been no clear indication from the courts, it is the OHRC’s view that, in the absence of clear medical research, pre-employment alcohol testing does not appear to predict an employee’s ability to perform the essential requirements of a safety-sensitive position. All it can do is assess impairment before the person is actually on the job. It is therefore difficult to see how an employer could justify pre-employment alcohol testing.

[TheStig]

Since drug testing cannot be shown to actually measure impairment, pre-employment drug testing should not be conducted.

What about asking applicants if they've used illegal drugs within the past year, is that infringing on their right to privacy? If the answer is 'no', why is it against someones right to prove they answered truthfully? If you don't want to take the test, don't apply. With social media, social networks, and of coarse, internet forums, employers have become increasingly concerned about what there employees do outside of work. Customers, regulators, and insurance companies all research what there employees and their partner companies employees do when on and off the clock.

Quite frankly, if I'm hiring pilots there are two types; those who use narcotics and those who don't. Because narcotics are illegal there is no defined limit for impairment, it's black and white, are there traces in a pilots blood or not?