Transwest Ramp vs Perimeter Ramp

[imac0960]

Every job is different to everyone else. Much like buying a car. If two people buy the car for the same price one might feel ripped off and the other thinks it's the steal of the century. Working the ramp is the same. Some will love it and others will hate it. Working the ramp is an entry level job. Sure it sucks that you won't be flying right away but it gives you an opportunity that you might not get otherwise.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Hi everyone, I was hoping to get a bit of advice. I'm a fresh pilot with a Group 1 IFR rating, approx 250 hours and an IATRA. Right now I am considering whether I want to go to Transwest Air or Perimeter Aviation for their ramp positions.

Thanks a lot in advance for all those that reply!

Or
You could talk to a couple of flying schools about getting your class IV instructor rating.
You're already into this to the tune of 30K, or more. Relatively speaking, the instructor rating makes a lot do sense. Personally, I'd have done this instead of the MEIFR rating, but that will never hurt you. With the class IV, you are very likely to find employment, and start logging PIC right away. Probably to the tune of 700-800 hours a year. Two years on the ramp, you'll have 250 hours, and an expired MEIFR, which will cost many $$$ to renew. Two years instructing (with your MEIFR) equals an ATPL! This means you will meet CONTRAILS requirements for an FO job on a turbine! It's your money, and your career, but the last three pilots we hired were ex instructors with 900-1500 hours. One of which is with Cathay Pacific, after three years with us!
Take my word on this. It IS a better idea than a ramp job anywhere!
I'm taking big hits here because I don't believe in pilots working ramps, but really, do you?
After well over twenty thousand (accident free) hours, including flight instructing for a couple of years, living out of a suitcase for a year (hated it) because I "thought" a 737 gig was worth it, to many years up north, to a basic 3 day a week retirement gig.....I firmly believe a pilot should fly. Do it.
If you want, PM me. I'll steer you in the right direction.
Illya

[BTyyj]

Illya, I interpreted Diadem's post as a means to point out the other side of the argument, rather than a personal attack.

To preface, the rest of my post isn't aimed directly Illya; simply everyone with similar mindsets.

Unfortunately, our generation (the younger generation) was raised into a system where direct entry flying jobs are few and far between, with the exception of instructing of course, and where working entry-level none flying positions is otherwise the reality.

The system forced upon us isn't one wished for or asked for, and it certainly isn't one of our own design or cause. We have little to do with the issues surrounding aviation. I personally find it comically ironic when the older generation places blame on those just entering the industry, when they themselves are the ones in control. I guess shit really does roll down hill.

There is a simple solution to these issues, one many other professions have taken advantage of. Simply looking at the commonality between other high paying profession will yield that product. I guarantee higher pay is in no way a function of the newer generation's initiative, rather measures taken by previous generations to ensure favourable economic demand down the road.

[Illya Kuryakin]

I see several causes here.
Too many pilots knowingly (or not) coming out of puppy mills
Jobs just aren't there....lack of research before signing up for training. Jobs are pretty scarce in several sectors of the work force right now. Lots of BAs waiting on tables and serving beer.
Pilots are retiring later than ever before. Economics requires this. Operators are using pilots. Don't blame the older generation of pilots. We don't want this any more than you do.
The answer is turn off the pilot flow from the schools. Obviously, you're just not needed. I've been asked by young folks if being a pilot is a good idea. Nope. Not right now. Great hobby though! Glad I'm on the other end. I've just seen so many really nice kids get screwed in this industry. The screwing starts in flight school.
Illya

[CanadianEh]

I see several causes here.
Too many pilots knowingly (or not) coming out of puppy mills
Jobs just aren't there....lack of research before signing up for training. Jobs are pretty scarce in several sectors of the work force right now. Lots of BAs waiting on tables and serving beer.
Pilots are retiring later than ever before. Economics requires this. Operators are using pilots. Don't blame the older generation of pilots. We don't want this any more than you do.
The answer is turn off the pilot flow from the schools. Obviously, you're just not needed. I've been asked by young folks if being a pilot is a good idea. Nope. Not right now. Great hobby though! Glad I'm on the other end. I've just seen so many really nice kids get screwed in this industry. The screwing starts in flight school.
Illya

I agree with this statement.

[KenoraPilot]

I'd vote Perimeter whole heartedly!

[SirCanadianBacon]

I'd vote Perimeter whole heartedly!

Thanks for the advice (and for keeping on topic!!). Also, thanks to everyone else that gave advice! Just to let you guys know, I've decided to go with Perimeter. It seems like a good company despite the long wait times. Thanks again to everyone!

[ogc]

As long as the movement stays steady and you are willing to take a thompson flying spot wait time on the ground can be less than a year.

[Jack In The Box]

I don't understand this whole thing of "perimeter is great because you get a number..."

Maybe you people should wake up and smell the coffee. Do you realize the ramp list here is saturated with guys who have been washed out (as many as 60% that go through initial training at times) due in no small part to this attitude of "ill do my time and get flight line."

If you want to work at perimeter, it's a fine starting job. If you expect to just come here and wait till your number comes up, turn around and walk the other way. Or better yet, please provide me with your contact info so that I can tell HR NOT to hire you. We have plenty of dead weight on the ramp here just waiting for their turn to fly (imagine their surprise when a lot of them get washed out. "What? But I put in my two years!").

If you want to work hard and earn your spot, come on over. It's not perfect, but there are plenty of good times to go around. Don't expect a flight line position just because you get a ramp seniority number. And I'm not saying that because poor work ethics drive me up the wall, I'm saying that as a warning not to come here expecting a guarenteed flying job because that is just not the way it works here anymore.

[SirCanadianBacon]

I don't understand this whole thing of "perimeter is great because you get a number..."

Maybe you people should wake up and smell the coffee. Do you realize the ramp list here is saturated with guys who have been washed out (as many as 60% that go through initial training at times) due in no small part to this attitude of "ill do my time and get flight line."

If you want to work at perimeter, it's a fine starting job. If you expect to just come here and wait till your number comes up, turn around and walk the other way. Or better yet, please provide me with your contact info so that I can tell HR NOT to hire you. We have plenty of dead weight on the ramp here just waiting for their turn to fly (imagine their surprise when a lot of them get washed out. "What? But I put in my two years!").

If you want to work hard and earn your spot, come on over. It's not perfect, but there are plenty of good times to go around. Don't expect a flight line position just because you get a ramp seniority number. And I'm not saying that because poor work ethics drive me up the wall, I'm saying that as a warning not to come here expecting a guarenteed flying job because that is just not the way it works here anymore.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that because you get a seniority number means that you can slack off on the job. Also, the fact that the sim eval and initial training is very difficult and must therefore be taken seriously has already been discussed here, as well as elsewhere on the forum. All anyone meant was that the seniority list is good because you know where you stand. That way the company can't just keep stringing you along. It also helps to eliminate favouritism. Yes, some people might try to take advantage of the seniority system, but like you said, those people tend to wash out. With all sincerity, I think you might just be reading too much into that statement.

[Jack In The Box]

I don't understand this whole thing of "perimeter is great because you get a number..."

Maybe you people should wake up and smell the coffee. Do you realize the ramp list here is saturated with guys who have been washed out (as many as 60% that go through initial training at times) due in no small part to this attitude of "ill do my time and get flight line."

If you want to work at perimeter, it's a fine starting job. If you expect to just come here and wait till your number comes up, turn around and walk the other way. Or better yet, please provide me with your contact info so that I can tell HR NOT to hire you. We have plenty of dead weight on the ramp here just waiting for their turn to fly (imagine their surprise when a lot of them get washed out. "What? But I put in my two years!").

If you want to work hard and earn your spot, come on over. It's not perfect, but there are plenty of good times to go around. Don't expect a flight line position just because you get a ramp seniority number. And I'm not saying that because poor work ethics drive me up the wall, I'm saying that as a warning not to come here expecting a guarenteed flying job because that is just not the way it works here anymore.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that because you get a seniority number means that you can slack off on the job. Also, the fact that the sim eval and initial training is very difficult and must therefore be taken seriously has already been discussed here, as well as elsewhere on the forum. All anyone meant was that the seniority list is good because you know where you stand. That way the company can't just keep stringing you along. It also helps to eliminate favouritism. Yes, some people might try to take advantage of the seniority system, but like you said, those people tend to wash out. With all sincerity, I think you might just be reading too much into that statement.

Yes you are absolutely correct, the seniority list IS a good system.

Respectfully, I do not agree that I am reading into the comment too much. Perhaps in this particular case the users making the comments may not mean anything by it, but I've personally seen that there is an entitlement attitude to almost everyone that comes through here or tries.

I'm not saying this to discourage you. I'm saying it to warn you, if you're already aware...great! With respect to other discussions that reference what I wrote above, that's great that you've read them. I personally, have not.

[Illya Kuryakin]

I don't understand this whole thing of "perimeter is great because you get a number..."

Maybe you people should wake up and smell the coffee. Do you realize the ramp list here is saturated with guys who have been washed out (as many as 60% that go through initial training at times) due in no small part to this attitude of "ill do my time and get flight line."

If you want to work at perimeter, it's a fine starting job. If you expect to just come here and wait till your number comes up, turn around and walk the other way. Or better yet, please provide me with your contact info so that I can tell HR NOT to hire you. We have plenty of dead weight on the ramp here just waiting for their turn to fly (imagine their surprise when a lot of them get washed out. "What? But I put in my two years!").

If you want to work hard and earn your spot, come on over. It's not perfect, but there are plenty of good times to go around. Don't expect a flight line position just because you get a ramp seniority number. And I'm not saying that because poor work ethics drive me up the wall, I'm saying that as a warning not to come here expecting a guarenteed flying job because that is just not the way it works here anymore.

Thanks for the post. A problem with young folks, is a sense of, for lack of a better term, entitlement. You attitude alone, or your perceived attitude can sink your ship. A ramp rat who doesn't see eye to eye with the wrong person can find themselves a career ramp worker. Keep this in mind. I've seen really nice kids have just this happen to them. You can't begin to imagine the back stabbing, bitch slapping game you've entered into.
Illya