Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Discuss topics relating to Porter Airlines.

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rudder
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by rudder »

altiplano wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:16 am Porter is used to flying next to empty planes, gotta start something soon. I can't believe they aren't doing YYZ-YUL/YOW at least. A couple flights a day. You have to regain consumer confidence if you want them to come and that takes spending some money.

If I was making Thanksgiving plans I'd be booking with an airline that I know is flying and hasn't been rolling their delay in starting back up for months.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the death knell for Porter if their financial overlords are saying no more money for even a limited start up on the triangle routes.
Porter is private equity owned, virtually debt free, collecting CEWS for its inactive staff, and likely on a payment moratorium for its terminal lease. Porter is probably in the best position to ‘hibernate’ of any CDN commercial carrier.

Now whether remaining entirely closed for 6+ months makes marketing sense, that is another question. I guess that future bookings will provide the answer. If it was me, I would book a Thanksgiving trip on a carrier that I had 100% confidence would be operating.
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altiplano
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by altiplano »

rudder wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:22 am
altiplano wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:16 am Porter is used to flying next to empty planes, gotta start something soon. I can't believe they aren't doing YYZ-YUL/YOW at least. A couple flights a day. You have to regain consumer confidence if you want them to come and that takes spending some money.

If I was making Thanksgiving plans I'd be booking with an airline that I know is flying and hasn't been rolling their delay in starting back up for months.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the death knell for Porter if their financial overlords are saying no more money for even a limited start up on the triangle routes.
Porter is private equity owned, virtually debt free, collecting CEWS for its inactive staff, and likely on a payment moratorium for its terminal lease. Porter is probably in the best position to ‘hibernate’ of any CDN commercial carrier.

Now whether remaining entirely closed for 6+ months makes marketing sense, that is another question. I guess that future bookings will provide the answer. If it was me, I would book a Thanksgiving trip on a carrier that I had 100% confidence would be operating.
Right...

Except in that the private equity owners hold the purse strings tightly and will have to open them up to get Porter running again... they are apparently unwilling to throw more money in at present. If they don't get rubbing, they may find themselves waiting into obsolescence.

I believe they have more money sunk into Porter than they've made - they didn't plan on keeping their money there as was evidenced by the IPO attempt and failed private sale hopes. Their mothballed airline was chugging along, but is currently essentially worthless, parts only with middle aged Q400s and a depressed travel market.
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eeeroger
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by eeeroger »

altiplano wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:16 am Porter is used to flying next to empty planes, gotta start something soon. I can't believe they aren't doing YYZ-YUL/YOW at least. A couple flights a day. You have to regain consumer confidence if you want them to come and that takes spending some money.

If I was making Thanksgiving plans I'd be booking with an airline that I know is flying and hasn't been rolling their delay in starting back up for months.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the death knell for Porter if their financial overlords are saying no more money for even a limited start up on the triangle routes.
Lol why spread misinformation. As far as I know, 2019 was an incredibly profitable year for Porter so I don’t believe they are used to flying empty airplanes. I do know on reliable information that Porter is quite healthy as far as finances go and are taking an approach to re enter the market when the time is absolutely right. They aren’t bleeding tens of millions of dollars a day like their other Canadian counterparts. While I agree that it may dissuade a consumer to purchase a ticket when start up dates are being moved, I think a lot of consumers are confident that Porter’s hold is pragmatic; preventing any further spread of virus, not to mention there is next to no demand, even if travel can be done within the bounds of restrictions. It seems they have the potential to return stronger, comparatively speaking. That’s my two cents.
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rudder
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by rudder »

altiplano wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:44 am
Right...

Except in that the private equity owners hold the purse strings tightly and will have to open them up to get Porter running again... they are apparently unwilling to throw more money in at present. If they don't get rubbing, they may find themselves waiting into obsolescence.

I believe they have more money sunk into Porter than they've made - they didn't plan on keeping their money there as was evidenced by the IPO attempt and failed private sale hopes. Their mothballed airline was chugging along, but is currently essentially worthless, parts only with middle aged Q400s and a depressed travel market.
I’ll bet that Gerry Schwartz wishes that he had the Porter cash flow scenario.
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altiplano
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by altiplano »

eeeroger wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:51 am
altiplano wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:16 am Porter is used to flying next to empty planes, gotta start something soon. I can't believe they aren't doing YYZ-YUL/YOW at least. A couple flights a day. You have to regain consumer confidence if you want them to come and that takes spending some money.

If I was making Thanksgiving plans I'd be booking with an airline that I know is flying and hasn't been rolling their delay in starting back up for months.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the death knell for Porter if their financial overlords are saying no more money for even a limited start up on the triangle routes.
Lol why spread misinformation. As far as I know, 2019 was an incredibly profitable year for Porter so I don’t believe they are used to flying empty airplanes. I do know on reliable information that Porter is quite healthy as far as finances go and are taking an approach to re enter the market when the time is absolutely right. They aren’t bleeding tens of millions of dollars a day like their other Canadian counterparts. While I agree that it may dissuade a consumer to purchase a ticket when start up dates are being moved, I think a lot of consumers are confident that Porter’s hold is pragmatic; preventing any further spread of virus, not to mention there is next to no demand, even if travel can be done within the bounds of restrictions. It seems they have the potential to return stronger, comparatively speaking. That’s my two cents.
How do you know they were incredibly profitable? They don't release numbers...

They were "incredibly profitable" before their IPO attempt too and we know how that went once the books opened up. Porter when they did report loads was a serial sub 50% LF airline. Anyone that says they aren't used to flying sparsely full airplanes hasn't flown them much.

They are managing to continue no doubt, but immense profitability? There's some misinformation spread...
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altiplano
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by altiplano »

rudder wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:01 am
altiplano wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:44 am
Right...

Except in that the private equity owners hold the purse strings tightly and will have to open them up to get Porter running again... they are apparently unwilling to throw more money in at present. If they don't get rubbing, they may find themselves waiting into obsolescence.

I believe they have more money sunk into Porter than they've made - they didn't plan on keeping their money there as was evidenced by the IPO attempt and failed private sale hopes. Their mothballed airline was chugging along, but is currently essentially worthless, parts only with middle aged Q400s and a depressed travel market.
I’ll bet that Gerry Schwartz wishes that he had the Porter cash flow scenario.
That's tough timing!
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tbaylx
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by tbaylx »

October 31st now. Starting to wonder if any airlines or airports are going to make it through this without CCAA. Canadian Governments need to start opening up all interprovincial travel and selected international safe travel corridors if they aren't going to provide any sort of airline aid like the rest of the G7
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Loon-A-Tic
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by Loon-A-Tic »

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prop2jet
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by prop2jet »

tbaylx wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:00 pm October 31st now. Starting to wonder if any airlines or airports are going to make it through this without CCAA. Canadian Governments need to start opening up all interprovincial travel and selected international safe travel corridors if they aren't going to provide any sort of airline aid like the rest of the G7
Actually it is October 7 (for now).... :rolleyes:
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Carlos de Anda
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by Carlos de Anda »

Hope to see you guys flying again soon. All the best from your Chicago Midway gate neighbours: Volaris :D
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Wayans
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by Wayans »

Just so there is no speculation or misinformation again, it has been confirmed that Porter has pushed it's start date back again, to November 12th now.
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rudder
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by rudder »

If it is Porter’s intention to remain closed until the CAN/US travel restrictions are lifted, then they may as well announce that they will be closed until May 31, 2021.
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by CL-Skadoo! »

Are they offering any of their aircraft for private charter?
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Inverted2
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by Inverted2 »

Starting to wonder if they will start up at all. Nov 15 will be 7.5 months without a single revenue flight. Planes will need a lot of maintenance sitting that long as well. Hopefully these ridiculous government restrictions get removed soon.
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2R
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by 2R »

You do realize that this is a Global Pandemic ?
The countries that opened to soon are shutting , one step forward and two steps backward and some days it is two steps forward one step backwards .
They just suspended the Oxford vaccine tests , and the Russian tests have some interesting data anomalies .

No vaccines yet . The variances in the death rates between Canada and the USA might keep the border closed until there is a Vaccine ,a cure , better treatment or an equilibrium in the death rates .
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by planebored »

Ah yeah we're falling apart here in Canada.

:roll:
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Hellocopter
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by Hellocopter »

From worldmeters.info...

chance of death for:
50-59 year old is 1.3%
40 - 49 year old 0.4%
30 - 39 year old 0.2%
20 - 29 year old 0.2%

so let's just say for simplicity's sake there's a 0.5% chance of death among the pilot age group

How many pilots are there in Canada? From google according to 2006 consensus....11.5k

Let's round that to 10k

So hypothetical question...

Say we got all 10k pilots into a room and said we can jump start the aviation industry tomorrow if 0.5% of you are willing to die.

0.5% of 10k is 50

Who amongst you are willing to volunteer to die?

If no one volunteers, and we draw lots... You are picked. Would you still want to go through with it?

I'm a pilot who's laid off. But I'm not willing to die so the rest of you can start flying again. Call me selfish.
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planebored
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by planebored »

Hellocopter wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:20 pm From worldmeters.info...

chance of death for:
50-59 year old is 1.3%
40 - 49 year old 0.4%
30 - 39 year old 0.2%
20 - 29 year old 0.2%

so let's just say for simplicity's sake there's a 0.5% chance of death among the pilot age group

How many pilots are there in Canada? From google according to 2006 consensus....11.5k

Let's round that to 10k

So hypothetical question...

Say we got all 10k pilots into a room and said we can jump start the aviation industry tomorrow if 0.5% of you are willing to die.

0.5% of 10k is 50

Who amongst you are willing to volunteer to die?

If no one volunteers, and we draw lots... You are picked. Would you still want to go through with it?

I'm a pilot who's laid off. But I'm not willing to die so the rest of you can start flying again. Call me selfish.
One thing that I was really surprised with was the lack of interest for early retirement at various airlines. We have a very old pilot group in Canada, many who fall into the risk zone with other compounding issues.
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tbaylx
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by tbaylx »

Hellocopter wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:20 pm From worldmeters.info...

chance of death for:
50-59 year old is 1.3%
40 - 49 year old 0.4%
30 - 39 year old 0.2%
20 - 29 year old 0.2%

so let's just say for simplicity's sake there's a 0.5% chance of death among the pilot age group

How many pilots are there in Canada? From google according to 2006 consensus....11.5k

Let's round that to 10k

So hypothetical question...

Say we got all 10k pilots into a room and said we can jump start the aviation industry tomorrow if 0.5% of you are willing to die.

0.5% of 10k is 50

Who amongst you are willing to volunteer to die?

If no one volunteers, and we draw lots... You are picked. Would you still want to go through with it?

I'm a pilot who's laid off. But I'm not willing to die so the rest of you can start flying again. Call me selfish.
I'd bet the odds of you dying on your way to work in traffic are higher yet you probably continue to drive...
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Hellocopter
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by Hellocopter »

I don't see how that's relevant.

There's a chance I die from car crash, brain aneurysm, heart attack in a few years, lightning strike. There's so many ways to die, and covid is just another thrown on top of the pile.

The point that I'm trying to get across is a lot of you, like me are frustrated with the current situation. And when you start looking at numbers and statistics, it's easy to forget that there is a name behind a number.

I'm just trying to bring the humanity perspective back into the picture.

But I'm by no means a saint looking after the poor dying folk.

If things stay like this a year from now, hell, I'll join the "sacrifice grandma for the economy" group too. But I also recognize that I'm a piece of shit for doing so.
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