Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
I suspect there's some psychological factors at play with Michael looking to make his father proud of him and to improve his dad's legacy. As others have mentioned above, if they don't do something drastic Porter is going to be just another failure on Robert's Wikipedia page.
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
Hypothetically if I left porter for AC in 17/18 I would be 70-80% system seniority, a narrow body captain drawing 14500 min a month even during the pandemic, able to hold a variety of senior positions with a pension and basically unlimited growth potential and the ability to fly shinier jets than an Emb over my career. At the very least I also kept working during the pandemic while all my former porter colleagues were riding the dole.eeeroger wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:07 amI don’t necessarily mean it like that. Just saying the tone on this forum this year has been one where everyone was hoping any airline’s success would evidently end in failure. But to answer your retort; I suppose anyone now stuck at the BOTL at AC, WS, AT, or Sunwing. Lifestyle and seniority matters to some people.
take care!
Should I still be crying in my soup over losing the opportunity to maybe fly a large regional jet at some nebulous point in the future? Because I seem to remember the same promotional materials surrounding the 220 announcements that went nowhere.
Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
Classic case of SJS....
I have heard yet what the EMJ is going to pay.
I wouldn:t be surprised to hear it's the same as the Dash8 rate.
I haven't heard from one ex-Porter guy I know that they regret leaving so they could have maybe flown a regional jet one day for less pay...
I have heard yet what the EMJ is going to pay.
I wouldn:t be surprised to hear it's the same as the Dash8 rate.
I haven't heard from one ex-Porter guy I know that they regret leaving so they could have maybe flown a regional jet one day for less pay...
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
Ok, I will represent the travelling public and from a consumer prospective it would appear competition for our travel dollars will be keen. Bring it on(Porter, Flair et al) we say and wishing nothing but the very best to all entrants going forward to the future. I speak as someone who has never been affiliated with any airline past or present. Good luck to all.
Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
PorterJet will need a niche. What will that niche be?
I doubt that it will be the base fare plus add-on product being offered by Flair. I also don’t see them mimicking Swoop or Rouge.
So what is left? Upscale. Sell premium service and product for economy fares. Example would be what VirginAmerica was offering prior to the Alaska buyout.
Can that type of product be sustained in a market of 35 million, particularly in competition with AC and TS? We will see.
I doubt that it will be the base fare plus add-on product being offered by Flair. I also don’t see them mimicking Swoop or Rouge.
So what is left? Upscale. Sell premium service and product for economy fares. Example would be what VirginAmerica was offering prior to the Alaska buyout.
Can that type of product be sustained in a market of 35 million, particularly in competition with AC and TS? We will see.
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
Anything that Porter does out of YYZ will be matched by AC and WJ.rudder wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:23 am PorterJet will need a niche. What will that niche be?
I doubt that it will be the base fare plus add-on product being offered by Flair. I also don’t see them mimicking Swoop or Rouge.
So what is left? Upscale. Sell premium service and product for economy fares. Example would be what VirginAmerica was offering prior to the Alaska buyout.
Can that type of product be sustained in a market of 35 million, particularly in competition with AC and TS? We will see.
WestJet has been pretty aggressive at beating down Flair while they are trying to take market share from Air Canada. I doubt that they'll give Porter a pass.
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
Any updates on how many pilots got recalled to start in September?
Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
Bid was yesterday, not sure the exact number but roughly for 120 ish spots if I recall. Another 100 for october. Sounds like thats probably just their comfortable number for actually getting the training completed at a time.
Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
How many total pilots at Porter?
Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
Flying a jet is very different than flying a turboprop. Im not saying Porter pilots cant do it,, but I can say none of them are used to it. There will be some hair raising moments until they get some experience.
Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
Fair question - what is preventing Porter from simply hiring OTS for the E2 operation?
Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
Doubt there is anyone to hire? Plus seniority would make that moot. No ones running e2’s here yet. Unless you’re saying AC pilots would “go down” to Porter.
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
There are many people still furloughed in Canada and abroad.
Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
I guess the point I am making is what are the work ownership rights for current Porter pilots (otherwise known as scope)?
What prevents Porter from staffing the entire E2 operation with OTS pilots?
What prevents Porter from setting up a separate operating certificate for the E2?
I am not suggesting this will be the outcome. I am just trying to see what protections current Porter pilots have. If all 295 current Porter pilots decide they want to fly the E2, that is 295 extra initial training courses on the Q400 for their replacements.
My guess is MD will not be a fan of that. Then of course there is the issue of E2 pay rates…..
Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
None with an applicable type rating, so I don’t see the point of letting them jump your own pilots. Especially since once the next bid comes out unless you put in protections they lose their seat because of seniority anyway. I know for a fact that at porter you get bumped down when someone “behind” you upgrades after you.notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:02 amThere are many people still furloughed in Canada and abroad.
Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
As far as I know their bidding system is what would prevent that. Even if they hired ots for the jets you’d never hold it cause someone would bump you down. Now with 30 jets coming (and possibly more q’s) ots will happen. All 295 upgrading still won’t make the 650 pilots their planning on total between the two aircraft.rudder wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:06 amI guess the point I am making is what are the work ownership rights for current Porter pilots (otherwise known as scope)?
What prevents Porter from staffing the entire E2 operation with OTS pilots?
What prevents Porter from setting up a separate operating certificate for the E2?
I am not suggesting this will be the outcome. I am just trying to see what protections current Porter pilots have. If all 295 current Porter pilots decide they want to fly the E2, that is 295 extra initial training courses on the Q400 for their replacements.
My guess is MD will not be a fan of that. Then of course there is the issue of E2 pay rates…..
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
The better, more mature collective agreements have wording to prevent displacement simply because someone what's to fly the shinny new toy. Its recognized that the OTS pilots where "required" to be operational as expeditiously as possible and therefore protected in some form or they simply would take the position. However what does happen is that as positions open up on the new toy and get filled by a seniority equipment bid the OTS pilots quality of work life degrades. The risk of a reserve block could becomes a very real possibility for a protracted length of time.C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:21 amAs far as I know their bidding system is what would prevent that. Even if they hired ots for the jets you’d never hold it cause someone would bump you down. Now with 30 jets coming (and possibly more q’s) ots will happen. All 295 upgrading still won’t make the 650 pilots their planning on total between the two aircraft.rudder wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:06 amI guess the point I am making is what are the work ownership rights for current Porter pilots (otherwise known as scope)?
What prevents Porter from staffing the entire E2 operation with OTS pilots?
What prevents Porter from setting up a separate operating certificate for the E2?
I am not suggesting this will be the outcome. I am just trying to see what protections current Porter pilots have. If all 295 current Porter pilots decide they want to fly the E2, that is 295 extra initial training courses on the Q400 for their replacements.
My guess is MD will not be a fan of that. Then of course there is the issue of E2 pay rates…..
Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
Thats why i’m saying OTS will not likely be a thing. Unless the agreement is rewritten they have no protections as far as I know.Loon-A-Tic wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:55 amThe better, more mature collective agreements have wording to prevent displacement simply because someone what's to fly the shinny new toy. Its recognized that the OTS pilots where "required" to be operational as expeditiously as possible and therefore protected in some form or they simply would take the position. However what does happen is that as positions open up on the new toy and get filled by a seniority equipment bid the OTS pilots quality of work life degrades. The risk of a reserve block could becomes a very real possibility for a protracted length of time.C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:21 amAs far as I know their bidding system is what would prevent that. Even if they hired ots for the jets you’d never hold it cause someone would bump you down. Now with 30 jets coming (and possibly more q’s) ots will happen. All 295 upgrading still won’t make the 650 pilots their planning on total between the two aircraft.rudder wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:06 am
I guess the point I am making is what are the work ownership rights for current Porter pilots (otherwise known as scope)?
What prevents Porter from staffing the entire E2 operation with OTS pilots?
What prevents Porter from setting up a separate operating certificate for the E2?
I am not suggesting this will be the outcome. I am just trying to see what protections current Porter pilots have. If all 295 current Porter pilots decide they want to fly the E2, that is 295 extra initial training courses on the Q400 for their replacements.
My guess is MD will not be a fan of that. Then of course there is the issue of E2 pay rates…..
Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29
If they're adding 30 jets OTS will happen. I doubt Porter has the internal experience to adequately staff a training department for E2 operations. They'll need to hire some experienced jet operators to assist. Nor would the company want to lose all it's experienced Q pilots at once to the jet.C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:21 amThats why i’m saying OTS will not likely be a thing. Unless the agreement is rewritten they have no protections as far as I know.Loon-A-Tic wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:55 amThe better, more mature collective agreements have wording to prevent displacement simply because someone what's to fly the shinny new toy. Its recognized that the OTS pilots where "required" to be operational as expeditiously as possible and therefore protected in some form or they simply would take the position. However what does happen is that as positions open up on the new toy and get filled by a seniority equipment bid the OTS pilots quality of work life degrades. The risk of a reserve block could becomes a very real possibility for a protracted length of time.C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:21 am
As far as I know their bidding system is what would prevent that. Even if they hired ots for the jets you’d never hold it cause someone would bump you down. Now with 30 jets coming (and possibly more q’s) ots will happen. All 295 upgrading still won’t make the 650 pilots their planning on total between the two aircraft.