Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

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rudder
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by rudder »

altiplano wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:47 pm Porter has to get something going, or they aren't coming back at all... or at least the public left that remember them are going to lose what little faith they may have left.

I imagine forward bookings are nil at this point.

I certainly wouldn't be planning my Christmas flight home to wherever from Toronto with any faith that it will run at this point.
Yup. Who would be stupid enough to book their Xmas 2020 travel on a company that has extended their flight cancelation window 5 times?

Book WJ or AC.
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altiplano
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by altiplano »

rudder wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:55 am
Yup. Who would be stupid enough to book their Xmas 2020 travel on a company that has extended their flight cancelation window 5 times?

Book WJ or AC.
Right? I just looked up a couple flights in December, Porter vs. AC, literally $1 difference.

I know people are motivated by price, but I don't think $1 is going to make enough of a difference for anyone to risk it.
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by Old fella »

altiplano wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:56 am
rudder wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:55 am
Yup. Who would be stupid enough to book their Xmas 2020 travel on a company that has extended their flight cancelation window 5 times?

Book WJ or AC.
Right? I just looked up a couple flights in December, Porter vs. AC, literally $1 difference.

I know people are motivated by price, but I don't think $1 is going to make enough of a difference for anyone to risk it.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/westjet-cuts-1.5761526

Well count WJ out for the most part down our way. Not surprising of course because of this Atlantic bubble, I mean who wants to go anywhere outside the bubble if upon return 14 day isolation is required and it is. I can ramble on with some of the silliness the Provinces introduced down here, Provinces carry a lot of weight more so than Feds in dealing with this pandemic as much of the issues fall within their respective jurisdictions. The city of Moncton in zone 5 went to orange from yellow due to an outbreak of Covid-19 at a senior complex that had questionable standards and protocols- same place was called out earlier. Barbershop , spa salons, gyms, hair dresser spots are required to shut down. Bars and such places remain open though. As one common-tater pointed out “ I can go the the local strip joint have a few beers taking in the surroundings but I can’t get a hair cut “

Go figure.
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altiplano
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by altiplano »

Still no plan...
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Inverted2
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by Inverted2 »

I hate to say it but I think Porter is done. This Wu Flu crap is going to continue into 2021 and there is no way an airline can sustain a 1+ year shutdown. The planes will need a ton of maintenance if they don’t fly for a year and even if employees are laid off that’s a huge expense. Not trying to be the bearer of bad news; all other airlines in Canada are in big trouble too.
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by Old fella »

Inverted2 wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:15 pm I hate to say it but I think Porter is done. This Wu Flu crap is going to continue into 2021 and there is no way an airline can sustain a 1+ year shutdown. The planes will need a ton of maintenance if they don’t fly for a year and even if employees are laid off that’s a huge expense. Not trying to be the bearer of bad news; all other airlines in Canada are in big trouble too.
Man, it’s gonna get ugly. Don’t forget the airports some of whom are in dire straights here in Maritimes. I wouldn’t be surprised if there will be operational closures or severe reduction in operating hours, no winter maintenance when closed and specific runway closures indefinitely. Flowing from this Nav Can won’t maintain navigation facilities aka ILS systems and the like, a genuine snowball affect. Either that or Federal Government aka Transport Canada will have to get involved to inject money through the NAS. Majority are run by commissions or airport authorities and there is simple no revenue coming in.
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notwhoyouthinkIam
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

Oh boy, the negativity is strong here.

It’s not surprising... avCanada has a reputation for being a circle jerk of sadness and anger.

Overlord Trudeau will throw billions of dollars at the airlines and all will be well as soon as we have a vaccine and we get enough people inoculated/vaccinated.
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by Inverted2 »

Not being negative. Being realistic. Vaccines could be a year or more away and their effectiveness is yet to be determined. I predict several of our nations airlines will be in bankruptcy protection or all out shuttered by spring.
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by Old fella »

I would argue it will be a 2022-23 time frame before you see any kind of stability in the airline/leisure/travel industry. What those industries and participants will look like from there is a good guess.
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a2btrail
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by a2btrail »

Morning all,

Has anyone over at Porter heard of any potential Nov recurrent training for the company's projected floating operation restart in Dec? Has the company issued any new news?

#SaveCanadianAviation
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dhc#
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by dhc# »

Re-start postponed....yet again into Q1/21

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... um=twitter
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smooth
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by smooth »

Well said
Hellocopter wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:20 am
skybluetrek wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:54 am
The current mindset is entitlement, we're so arrogant we believe we can save the world from this pandemonium circus. What about the many more that will dye because of starvation thanks to the economical downturn, or the grandmas dying alone cause nobody visits them anymore, or the increased domestic violence, Etc, Etc, Etc. Let alone our even more fucked up immune system after all this sanitation.

It's not about the willingness to dye for you or anyone, it's about embracing death in the many forms/chances. We would have chosen a different career if contemplating and managing the risk of dying wasn't something we're willing to do.
Careful there, remember human factors class? resignation is one of the 5 hazardous attitudes.

For real though, you can't expect governments around the world to not even TRY to fix the pandemic can you?

What our government did initially, imo was correct.

Hospitals were overflowing, there was too many unknowns still regrading the virus. So we shut down. That's not arrogance. It's good decision making.

The government then provided much needed support with CEWS and CERB. Who's starving?

I figured old people would prefer to not catch covid and live but be quarantined, than to see their grandkids and then die? Besides, there are work arounds. I remember reading an article about a guy visiting his grandma by standing beside a window @ the senior home.

Domestic violence? If being locked together with the person you supposedly love and married resulted in you deciding to beat them up... You surely can't pin that on covid...

If wearing a mask and washing hands a bit more resulted in the collapse of our immune system, then we as a species deserve to go extinct.



Now if you want to complain about our government regarding their decisions after June/July. Fine, many things can be said about them there.


Again, I don't care about your stance regarding the shut down. If you want to go with herd immunity and kill off millions. Go right ahead. But don't brush off their deaths as just a number.

Say it with pride.

To quote Lord Farquaad from Shrek.

Some of you may die, and that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

As long as you take that stance, I have no issue.

Because the only thing worse than being evil. Is to be evil while masquerading as good.
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2R
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by 2R »

Looking forward to being able to go to hog town again , get some hog knuckles , wash them down with Steam Whistle or Blue and go to a Show . That Newfie show was fun . Good times are coming , Pilot shortage by next December :)
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by skybluetrek »

2R wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:09 am Looking forward to being able to go to hog town again , get some hog knuckles , wash them down with Steam Whistle or Blue and go to a Show . That Newfie show was fun . Good times are coming , Pilot shortage by next December :)
:partyman: :supz: :P :prayer:
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by The Raven »

So what’s the latest about restarting operations? February, spring, summer? Anyone know?
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rudder
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by rudder »

The Raven wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:23 am So what’s the latest about restarting operations? February, spring, summer? Anyone know?
Which year? :-)

My prediction is a small return to service in June 2021.

US travel restrictions will remain in place for the summer. Business travel will remain dormant and disappears during the summer months regardless. All that leaves is leisure travel with inter-provincial travel restrictions potentially still in force until Canadian vaccination subscription is complete in Q4 2021.

Porters problems remain the dispute with their landlord and the infrastructure cost associated with a minimized operation at YTZ. It was all built on high passenger volume, not low volume, operations.
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by The Raven »

rudder wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:56 am
The Raven wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:23 am So what’s the latest about restarting operations? February, spring, summer? Anyone know?
Which year? :-)

My prediction is a small return to service in June 2021.

US travel restrictions will remain in place for the summer. Business travel will remain dormant and disappears during the summer months regardless. All that leaves is leisure travel with inter-provincial travel restrictions potentially still in force until Canadian vaccination subscription is complete in Q4 2021.

Porters problems remain the dispute with their landlord and the infrastructure cost associated with a minimized operation at YTZ. It was all built on high passenger volume, not low volume, operations.
Is Porter currently paying the landlord?
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rudder
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by rudder »

The Raven wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:01 am
Is Porter currently paying the landlord?
I don’t think so.


Porter Airlines sues Billy Bishop terminal owner over $45.3-million in fees for unused slots

INCLUDES CORRECTION
PUBLISHED NOVEMBER 20, 2020
UPDATED NOVEMBER 21, 2020

Porter Airlines Inc. is suing the owner of Toronto’s downtown island airport terminal for $21-million, alleging breach of contract, plus forgiveness of up to $45.3-million in fees in a dispute that highlights the travel industry’s COVID-19-related financial stress.

Porter filed a lawsuit on Wednesday against Nieuport Aviation Infrastructure Partners GP, owner of the terminal at Billy Bishop Toronto City airport. The filing shows both Nieuport and Porter, the dominant airline at Billy Bishop airport, resorting to tough tactics to weather the pandemic. Porter is attempting to avoid paying fees for terminal slots it’s not currently using and alleges its landlord is not doing enough to keep the facility safe for travellers. For its part, Nieuport is trying to seize three Porter planes pledged as collateral by the airline.

Airport executives say the dispute threatens growth plans at Toronto’s downtown airport. The court battle is playing out as the federal Liberals continue working on a bailout package for the country’s airlines.

Before the pandemic, Porter flew to 22 Canadian and U.S. destinations from the island airport and 2.8 million passengers went through the Billy Bishop terminal each year. Porter cancelled all flights in March, and now says it plans to resume flights on Feb. 11 of next year. Porter is owned by Toronto’s Deluce family and private equity funds.

Nieuport, which is controlled by New York-based J.P. Morgan Asset Management, bought the Billy Bishop terminal from Porter in 2015 for an estimated $700-million. According to court documents, Nieuport continues to charge Porter for using slots at the terminal. The airline is asking the Ontario Superior Court of Justice to cancel those fees, which could total $45.8-million.

Porter is also asking the court to settle a dispute that dates back to 2018 over the airline’s request to reduce the number of slots it uses at Billy Bishop. In addition to setting aside fees, Porter is suing Nieuport for $20-million for breach of contract and $1-million in punitive damages.

“Porter’s position is that it expects Nieuport to respect its contractual obligations,” said Brad Cicero, the airline’s spokesman. “We will move ahead with this matter through the courts and do not have further information to share at this time.”

“Nieuport Aviation disagrees with the allegations raised by Porter in its statement of claim of November 18, 2020 and we will defend ourselves against these allegations,” said Neil Pakey, chief executive of Nieuport Aviation, in an e-mail on Friday. He said the company has invested hundreds of millions of dollars to purchase, then improve the Billy Bishop terminal.

“We are now working towards the development of a new U.S. Customs preclearance facility which will enhance the passenger experience even more,” said Mr. Pakey. “Nieuport is committed to the airport’s long-term future and its vital role in serving consumers, businesses and visitors.”

Porter put up a line of credit that Nieuport can access and pledged three of its Dash 8-400 turboprop planes to its landlord as security for its use of the terminal. Porter is asking the courts to return $5.75-million that Nieuport drew from the credit line, and stop the terminal owner from seizing its aircraft. Porter’s total fleet is 29 planes. Porter also wants to be released from fees it pays on advertisements on Nieuport-owned buses that carry passengers from the airport to downtown Toronto, as the shuttle service is currently shut down.

While Nieuport owns the terminal, the federal government owns Billy Bishop airport though the PortsToronto agency. On Friday, PortsToronto declined to comment on the court dispute.

Before the pandemic, Porter accounted for 85 per cent of landing slots at Billy Bishop airport, while Air Canada held the remaining slots.

Separately, airlines are lobbying the federal government to roll back fee increases put in place at many Canadian airports since the pandemic hit North America in March. Carriers are also asking Transport Canada to reduce the airline fees charged by Nav Canada, the national air traffic control system. Airlines estimate that fee increases have added about $100 to the cost of a cross-country flight for a family of four.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busines ... illion-in/
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by FL030 »

Air Canada (and Jazz) are going to make out like bandits from this pandemic by taking over Porter's and Air Transat's business.
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rudder
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Re: Porter Airlines shifts restart of flights date to June 29

Post by rudder »

FL030 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:20 am Air Canada (and Jazz) are going to make out like bandits from this pandemic by taking over Porter's and Air Transat's business.
CHR should buy Porter (not PAH).

Add some of the YTZ Q400 lift to the AC CPA. Sell the surplus Q400’s or add to CAC leasing portfolio.

However, CHR must avoid Porter liabilities. Possible that Porter should file for CCAA or voluntary restructuring and have CHR pick it up with a restructured YTZ lease. Also need to void leases at outstations if applicable.
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