More layoffs coming!

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straight2thepoint
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More layoffs coming!

Post by straight2thepoint »

Effective January 1, more layoffs coming at Sky.

Garbage MEC doesn't know their ass from their elbow. All of the laid-off pilots haven't been kept in the know about anything. Pertanent info isn't being relayed by the MEC and pilots are having to rely on others to pass along info the baffon squad doesn't.
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flyingcanuck
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by flyingcanuck »

sorry to hear that
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rudder
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by rudder »

How many currently active? Inactive?

What are the changes in active/inactive on Jan 01st?

Is Skyregional subscribed to CEWS?
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straight2thepoint
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by straight2thepoint »

rudder wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:51 am How many currently active? Inactive?

What are the changes in active/inactive on Jan 01st?

Is Skyregional subscribed to CEWS?
By the October list, 283 total equalling: 142 active, 128 laidoff, 7 mgmt, 6 on leave

Exact number is unknown yet but notices planned by end of the week.

They ended CEWS for us in July.
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dash8driver
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by dash8driver »

It’s difficult to watch our company conditions get worse day by day while Jazz continues to do their best, which in comparison is wonderful!
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by Yycjetdriver »

dash8driver wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:29 pm It’s difficult to watch our company conditions get worse day by day while Jazz continues to do their best, which in comparison is wonderful!
In all seriousness, isn’t that Sky Regionals main purpose? Jazz was more than capable of doing all AC’s tier 2 regional flying and were doing an excellent job of it. However some of the old employee contracts were unfortunately too generous for regional airline employees. The SKR and Georgians(crj) were used to help fix that.
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Last edited by Yycjetdriver on Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Loon-A-Tic
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by Loon-A-Tic »

straight2thepoint wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:29 am Effective January 1, more layoffs coming at Sky.

Garbage MEC doesn't know their ass from their elbow. All of the laid-off pilots haven't been kept in the know about anything. Pertanent info isn't being relayed by the MEC and pilots are having to rely on others to pass along info the baffon squad doesn't.
When has any employer given a two month layoff notification, this seems a bit odd :?
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FL-280
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by FL-280 »

With a long term contract at Jazz (2035) and a looming scope grievance by ACPA. The fate of sky pilots is yet to be sealed.
I hope the merge sky/Jazz, would probably be the best outcome for all regional pilots
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Loon-A-Tic
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by Loon-A-Tic »

FL-280 wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:17 am With a long term contract at Jazz (2035) and a looming scope grievance by ACPA. The fate of sky pilots is yet to be sealed.
I hope the merge sky/Jazz, would probably be the best outcome for all regional pilots

Anything is possible but I don't see AC ever putting all their "regional" eggs in one basket again and forgo the "divide & defeat" option
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mbav8r
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by mbav8r »

Loon-A-Tic wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:32 am
FL-280 wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:17 am With a long term contract at Jazz (2035) and a looming scope grievance by ACPA. The fate of sky pilots is yet to be sealed.
I hope the merge sky/Jazz, would probably be the best outcome for all regional pilots

Anything is possible but I don't see AC ever putting all their "regional" eggs in one basket again and forgo the "divide & defeat" option
That was the point of a 17 year deal, labour peace for a very long time. In retrospect, the long term contract will be a good thing, AC doesn’t need the redundancy of SR for another 15 years.
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by Loon-A-Tic »

mbav8r wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:26 pm
Loon-A-Tic wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:32 am
FL-280 wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:17 am With a long term contract at Jazz (2035) and a looming scope grievance by ACPA. The fate of sky pilots is yet to be sealed.
I hope the merge sky/Jazz, would probably be the best outcome for all regional pilots

Anything is possible but I don't see AC ever putting all their "regional" eggs in one basket again and forgo the "divide & defeat" option
That was the point of a 17 year deal, labour peace for a very long time. In retrospect, the long term contract will be a good thing, AC doesn’t need the redundancy of SR for another 15 years.
Or if they re-gig the Chorus CPA during a sell off need the redundancy of Jazz, most roads are two way. The post Covid market place may be a very different and AC may no longer desire a pre-covid, 15 year CPA. In the new era AC will have a lot of assets at it's disposal to deploy, Rouge, AirTransat, SKV it may be a bit foolish too presume Jazz is the prodigal son.
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fish4life
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by fish4life »

Is AC done with the 190’s?
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altiplano
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by altiplano »

The 190s were long ago sold off. They arranged to do a lease back to fill in the schedule when the Max was grounded. But they are gone now.
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FL-280
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by FL-280 »

Loon-A-Tic wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:54 pm SKV it may be a bit foolish too presume Jazz is the prodigal son.
Jazz kinda is though.... Honestly, I am not trying to be harsh, specially in this time of extreme uncertainty. But, I wouldnt hold on to a EMB 175 seat, it's just a matter of time. I wish SKV pilots the best though and as I said, a merge of the regionals is the best scenario for JAZZ and SKY pilots
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rudder
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by rudder »

Loon-A-Tic wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:54 pm
Or if they re-gig the Chorus CPA during a sell off need the redundancy of Jazz, most roads are two way. The post Covid market place may be a very different and AC may no longer desire a pre-covid, 15 year CPA. In the new era AC will have a lot of assets at it's disposal to deploy, Rouge, AirTransat, SKV it may be a bit foolish too presume Jazz is the prodigal son.
There is no doubt that AC would like 5 airlines at its disposal and no restrictions. But that is not where AC is today.

You understand that the CHR CPA is a contract, right? Even an AC CCAA filing does not void the CPA. However, AC would probably ask the court to reject the CPA which in all likelihood would result in a re-negotiation between AC and CHR, not a termination. AC is not in CCAA (yet) so let’s assign a lower probability to that outcome.

Alternatively, and not under the spectre of CCAA, AC could request CHR to consensually modify the CPA. That discussion may already have started. However, there is no unilateral early termination provision in the AC/CHR CPA (it is a public document). There was a unilateral early termination provision in the AC/GGN CPA. There may be one in the AC/SKV CPA (not a public document - but why would AC require an early termination provision in the GGN CPA but not the SKV CPA?).

I doubt that you would see CHR agree to shrink its CPA fleet or revenue without knowing fully what the plan is for the entire Express system. Particularly relevant is that AC owns 15 of the 25 aircraft fleet operated by SKV. Which means that those 15 aircraft can be parked at no cost to AC. It may be that fact which is precipitating further reductions and layoffs at SKV. CHR must close the purchase contracts on the remaining CRJ900’s by year end 2020 which means that CHR has loans to pay, and AC has lease payments to make to CHR.

From an Express labour perspective, the better long term outcome is a single Express vendor. GGN fleet, flying, and pilot workforce were absorbed seamlessly in to Jazz. SKV would be no different. And that would be a better outcome for some SKV staff than AC simply giving SKV notice of termination. But the COVID reduced travel environment will invariably result in a meaningful contraction in the Express footprint, one way or another.

Also critical to understand that neither the current CHR BOD nor any new potential owner (excluding AC) are going to take any action to diminish the value of the enterprise, most impactful being the CPA, unless absolutely necessary and with full awareness of what AC is doing with the SKV CPA.

Apologies for deviating from the layoff thread topic, which is a matter of great concern for all Express staff. But these matters are all related. Nothing happens in isolation.
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JoeyBarton
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by JoeyBarton »

Everybody at Sky should think twice about the future once the fins are reaching the end of their lifetime. These brazilian will not fly forever. The newer version is too big for a CPA carrier.
This has always been a common theme for Sky since day 1. The goal was to lower Jazz's cost. This has been achieved a while ago.
Ask yourselves the right question fellas...
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rudder
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by rudder »

JoeyBarton wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:36 am These brazilian will not fly forever. The newer version is too big for a CPA carrier.
US CPA carrier? Yes - due to MGTOW.

AC scope? No - it is hull size only (Max seating certification worldwide).

Having said that, I doubt that AC is currently out shopping for more new expensive aircraft for Express. The reality is that a bunch of lightly used CRJ900’s are finding their way in to the marketplace. And AC has to meet financial and deployment obligations for the 9 new CRJ900’s going in to service at Jazz in 2020/2021.

I would not be surprised to see an Express fleet plan that evolves to the CRJ900 as the only 76 seat jet platform in the 2022-2025 timeframe with the 15 owned 175’s being parked and the 10 leased 175’s remaining in service until staggered lease expirys. Replacement factory new 76 seat jets which were previously under consideration for 2024 are likely going to be pushed back to 2026 or beyond. The Mitsubishi program has been suspended again leaving the third generation E Jet as the only 76 seat jet in production.
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JoeyBarton
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by JoeyBarton »

rudder wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:13 am
JoeyBarton wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:36 am These brazilian will not fly forever. The newer version is too big for a CPA carrier.
US CPA carrier? Yes - due to MGTOW.

AC scope? No - it is hull size only (Max seating certification worldwide).

Having said that, I doubt that AC is currently out shopping for more new expensive aircraft for Express. The reality is that a bunch of lightly used CRJ900’s are finding their way in to the marketplace. And AC has to meet financial and deployment obligations for the 9 new CRJ900’s going in to service at Jazz in 2020/2021.

I would not be surprised to see an Express fleet plan that evolves to the CRJ900 as the only 76 seat jet platform in the 2022-2025 timeframe with the 15 owned 175’s being parked and the 10 leased 175’s remaining in service until staggered lease expirys. Replacement factory new 76 seat jets which were previously under consideration for 2024 are likely going to be pushed back to 2026 or beyond. The Mitsubishi program has been suspended again leaving the third generation E Jet as the only 76 seat jet in production.
All the 175s have a worldwide max seating certification exceeding 76 seats. The only reason they are capped at 76 currently is ACPA's scope article 1...
The E2 would also be capped at 76, but meaning a bigger J class which is already at 12 seats? More leg room? Starting not to make sense anymore for a regional aircraft.
I might be wrong, but I don't think Sky's future is bright anymore looking forward..
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Polar Bear
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by Polar Bear »

How many pilots left effective Jan 1st?
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rudder
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Re: More layoffs coming!

Post by rudder »

JoeyBarton wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:33 am All the 175s have a worldwide max seating certification exceeding 76 seats. The only reason they are capped at 76 currently is ACPA's scope article 1...
The E2 would also be capped at 76, but meaning a bigger J class which is already at 12 seats? More leg room? Starting not to make sense anymore for a regional aircraft.
I might be wrong, but I don't think Sky's future is bright anymore looking forward..
ACPA scope limit is Max certified seating 90 seats for hull size by any worldwide agency BUT maximum seating configuration at Express not to exceed 76 seats.

The first, second, and third generation E175 all meet this criteria.

The third gen E175 (E2 series) has a higher gross weight and greater range. But it comes with a huge price tag and pre-COVID there were substantial availability issues.

Regardless, I think that Express fleet renewal is on the back burner for now. Of greater interest and concern to both AC and the Express vendors and their staff is the Express fleet plan for 2021-2025. Older owned aircraft and expiring leases are all most likely to see their service at Express come to an end.
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