Captain Upgrade Times

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zipper
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Captain Upgrade Times

#1 Post by zipper » Mon May 14, 2018 5:46 am

Hi All,

I've got 5000 TT with 1000 on the DHC-8-100. I've also got my ATPL and an instructional background. I'm wondering how long to upgrade to Capt at YYZ these days. Also, how long to get to training Captain, and what is the pay like?
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Dizzy D
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#2 Post by Dizzy D » Mon May 14, 2018 7:37 am

zipper wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 5:46 am
Hi All,

I've got 5000 TT with 1000 on the DHC-8-100. I've also got my ATPL and an instructional background. I'm wondering how long to upgrade to Capt at YYZ these days. Also, how long to get to training Captain, and what is the pay like?
With that time, you would upgrade as soon as the next bid came out. Encore is a little short on YYZ spots right now. Chances are you would take an upgrade through YYC.
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B208
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#3 Post by B208 » Mon May 14, 2018 8:30 am

Dizzy D wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 7:37 am
zipper wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 5:46 am
Hi All,

I've got 5000 TT with 1000 on the DHC-8-100. I've also got my ATPL and an instructional background. I'm wondering how long to upgrade to Capt at YYZ these days. Also, how long to get to training Captain, and what is the pay like?
With that time, you would upgrade as soon as the next bid came out. Encore is a little short on YYZ spots right now. Chances are you would take an upgrade through YYC.
Thanks! How does the company feel about commuting?
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avbird
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#4 Post by avbird » Mon May 14, 2018 5:06 pm

Dizzy D wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 7:37 am
zipper wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 5:46 am
Hi All,

I've got 5000 TT with 1000 on the DHC-8-100. I've also got my ATPL and an instructional background. I'm wondering how long to upgrade to Capt at YYZ these days. Also, how long to get to training Captain, and what is the pay like?
With that time, you would upgrade as soon as the next bid came out. Encore is a little short on YYZ spots right now. Chances are you would take an upgrade through YYC.
did you see the last upgrade list?
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zipper
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#5 Post by zipper » Mon May 14, 2018 7:48 pm

avbird wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 5:06 pm
Dizzy D wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 7:37 am
zipper wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 5:46 am
Hi All,

I've got 5000 TT with 1000 on the DHC-8-100. I've also got my ATPL and an instructional background. I'm wondering how long to upgrade to Capt at YYZ these days. Also, how long to get to training Captain, and what is the pay like?
With that time, you would upgrade as soon as the next bid came out. Encore is a little short on YYZ spots right now. Chances are you would take an upgrade through YYC.
did you see the last upgrade list?
I didn't, could you fill me in?
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avbird
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#6 Post by avbird » Mon May 14, 2018 8:04 pm

20 yyc 0 yyz, so not much for yyz
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Rezy
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#7 Post by Rezy » Tue May 15, 2018 5:19 am

Only hiring FO’s at the moment, you will need a minimum of 6 months in the right seat, no one upgrades without first completing their 6 month recurrent.
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flyinhigh
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#8 Post by flyinhigh » Tue May 15, 2018 7:41 am

As mentioned, YYZ is fully staffed now whereas YYC is short. The last bid had 20 YYC upgrades and none in YYZ.

Upgrade will be a minimum of 6 months, potentially longer as many FO's are ahead of you and meet the requirements now. As for a training position, that is anyones guess.
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Victory
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#9 Post by Victory » Tue May 15, 2018 8:50 am

How long is the typical date of hire at Encore to flow to Westjet these days?
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DropTanks
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#10 Post by DropTanks » Tue May 15, 2018 9:38 am

Seems to be around 3yrs right now but by the time the next group goes through it’ll be like 3.5yrs for them. Can fluctuate because the uptake isn’t at a regular pace.
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seriousflyer
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#11 Post by seriousflyer » Tue May 15, 2018 9:46 am

It could be as long as 6 years to flow.
There is 500 encore pilots in line to flow. Our best year of flow was 80 pilots. Do the math...6 years × 80 pilots is ~ 500 pilots. Those are in optimal hiring conditions.

If your coming to encore prepare for 5+ years to flow, and from date of hire on the property to westjet captain will be about 12 years. Roughly.

PM me for details.
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Mr. North
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#12 Post by Mr. North » Tue May 15, 2018 9:55 am

Agree with the above.

Its been a long while since we've seen regular flow like that. Outside of their most recent groundschool, there has been zero movement for the better part of a year. Without a good contract (that keeps senior pilots around) I doubt we will see a return of aggressive flow as the airline will not be able to sustain itself with the reduced experience in the cockpit. So 4-5 years can very easily transform into 6-8.

The capture of Swoop flying, the arrival of the 87's in 2019, regular attrition to AC are all variables that enhance movement. But at the end of the day flow has always depended on Encore's ability to perform. They will stop flow before they park planes.
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#13 Post by DropTanks » Wed May 16, 2018 9:22 pm

Keep in mind as well if mainline adopts a reserve system that will mean more hiring/flow as well as if TC gets off their completely useless asses and puts out the new fatigue rules = more hiring/flow.

There are no guarantees. Assume longer wait, hope for shorter wait.
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#14 Post by flyinhigh » Fri May 18, 2018 6:06 am

FYI, With the latest bid at Encore for upgrades.

They couldn't fill all the seats for upgrade, so they are now going to be re-listing the Captains Ad.
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#15 Post by Bede » Mon May 21, 2018 9:15 pm

seriousflyer wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:46 am
It could be as long as 6 years to flow.
There is 500 encore pilots in line to flow. Our best year of flow was 80 pilots. Do the math...6 years × 80 pilots is ~ 500 pilots. Those are in optimal hiring conditions.

If your coming to encore prepare for 5+ years to flow, and from date of hire on the property to westjet captain will be about 12 years. Roughly.
You're guess is as good as mine. Upgrade time at WJ will probably be 12-15 years, NOT including time at WJE. The captain group is young and I don't think that retirements will happen for a while. WB flying will create some movement, but narrow body is stagnant. Rumour is that the company proposed block hour guarantees equal to 2017 hours flown meaning that any WB flying will be offset by moving tails to Swoop.

Encore is good for one thing now: moving to AC. Sad to say, but true.
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#16 Post by sstaurus » Wed May 23, 2018 6:06 am

Yep the big bottleneck now is replacing captains at encore. Like said above, flow will stop once they can't replace the captains.
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#17 Post by avbird » Wed May 23, 2018 7:01 am

sstaurus wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 6:06 am
Yep the big bottleneck now is replacing captains at encore. Like said above, flow will stop once they can't replace the captains.
Or you know they just add more captain spots in yyz. Its a yyc issue of lack of qualified FO to upgrade.
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#18 Post by yycinformer » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:13 am

Can anyone tell me with certainty how the upgrade matrix actually works? Is it by time on type or are you stuck to whatever it says on the opposite side of your TT when you join the company? Meaning if I join with 2000TT, no Q time, once I have 1000 hours on type & 3000TT, can I upgrade then or will I need 1500 on type as that's what is on the other side of the matrix when joining?
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#19 Post by matthew.oommen » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:21 pm

yycinformer wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:13 am
Can anyone tell me with certainty how the upgrade matrix actually works? Is it by time on type or are you stuck to whatever it says on the opposite side of your TT when you join the company? Meaning if I join with 2000TT, no Q time, once I have 1000 hours on type & 3000TT, can I upgrade then or will I need 1500 on type as that's what is on the other side of the matrix when joining?
When you join the company, on day 1, see what flight time you have. If you have over 2000 hours and below 2500 hours, you use the 2000 hour scale. Once you get that time on type, you upgrade. If you start at the company with 1999 hours, you start at the 1500 hour line and not the 2000 hour line. You slide down to the hour line, no sliding up. And when you get more time on type, you don’t interpolate on the scale. It’s just what you have on day 1 for time on type or upgrade calendar times. When you have been in the company for the calendar time duration, if you don’t have the required matrix time for whatever reason, you’ll be eligible for an upgrade anyway. Let me know if I confused you more, took us a little bit to completely understand it.
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#20 Post by yycinformer » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:27 pm

That seems counter productive especially since they need captains. But anyway, what is this calendar time duration? I've not seen or heard of it before
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Re: Captain Upgrade Times

#21 Post by matthew.oommen » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:17 pm

yycinformer wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:27 pm
That seems counter productive especially since they need captains. But anyway, what is this calendar time duration? I've not seen or heard of it before
It’s a new thing based on experience you come here with.

It ranges. Bottom end, 1500 hours when you join, 1750 hours on type, or 24 calendar months in the company, to be eligible for upgrade. Top end, 4000 hour when you join, 500 on type, or 6 months and a recurrent, whichever comes first.
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