How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

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apathetic
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by apathetic » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:32 am

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cloak
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by cloak » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:59 pm

Alcoholism wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:52 pm
Hi Chinese guy. If I were to be an AC pilot, should I vote on ALPA or stay with ACPA (a la WJPA)? Awaiting for your response and order #7 with sticky rice.
With all its cash reserve, and lots of bad memories, why would ACPA capitulate to ALPA?!
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by Diadem » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:44 pm

I'm posting the following on every thread in which John Swallow has raised the issue of seniority at ALPA, because it's pretty devastating to his "case":
I don't know why I didn't think to actually do it earlier, but I finally decided to stop taking Mr Swallow at his word that the references he was posting were correct, and actually look up the documents he's claiming make the One List "impossible". I thought it was strange that he was contacting the ALPA archivist and getting documents from 1956, but it turns out the reason he had to do that is because those documents are archived and no longer relevant. As an ALPA member, I those docs at my fingertips, whereas Mr Swallow wouldn't be privy to such info. Perhaps he hoped that if he bombarded us with screenshots, that we wouldn't take the time to actually look it up.
Mr Swallow asserts that the ALPA constitution of 1956 and Merger Policy require that all seniority be based on date-of-hire, and that those are the only sources of guidance that would be relevant to the current negotiations. It turns out that the ALPA constitution has been updated at least eleven times since 1956, with the most recent version dated Oct 18, 2018. The constitution itself doesn't actually have any guidance regarding seniority lists of any kind, so I looked at the Merger Policy, since Mr Swallow thinks it's the ultimate guide to forming a seniority list. This document was last updated Apr 30, 2009, and now states the following:
4. Seniority List Integration - Negotiations
(c) In cases where one or more parties to the merger has flight deck crew members with grandfather or similar special seniority rights that are limited as to job classification or status within the flight deck crew, the merger representatives shall commence efforts to arrive at a mutually satisfactory method of integration and compilation of such separate special seniority lists as may be necessary and appropriate to preserve and protect such rights in addition to the flight deck crew seniority list.
In addition, ALPA released an information sheet to explain this change in layman's terms: ALPA merger policy calls for the fair and equitable integration of seniority lists. Under the new policy, merger representatives are encouraged to consider themselves primarily as negotiators who should make a strong and focused effort to resolve seniority integration issues, with mediation and final binding arbitration mandated on unresolved issues. As the Committee evaluated the old policy, it became clear that the factors for seniority list integration (SLI) had become a source of controversy. The new policy states that the factors that must be considered in constructing a fair and equitable integrated seniority list, in no particular order and with no particular weight, now include but are not limited to career expectations, longevity, and status and category. The new merger policy mandates that the merger representatives, mediators, and arbitrators must consider these factors when constructing a seniority list; however, they are also free to consider other factors as they deem appropriate."
ALPA addressed Mr Swallow's concerns a decade ago. The constitution he quotes is 52 years out of date. The LEC reps, MEC reps, and ALPA president are not violating any bylaws. I'm not sure Mr Swallow will know what this means, but the policies he's quoting have been superceded. The OTS pilots have no grounds for a complaint to the CIRB.
END OF STORY. CASE CLOSED.
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Lightchop
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by Lightchop » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:04 am

Hey if it all falls apart now Encore pilots can know what it's like to be a pilot at any other regional in Canada.
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tailgunner
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by tailgunner » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:44 am

Encore Pilots,
Dust off, and update your AC application. The AC training department is planning and gearing up for almost 600 hires next year and even more the next. Retirements, growth, and the new duty regulations are driving this plan.
AC has hired a lot of their own Express pilots recently and those Express carriers are struggling to maintain their own operations and training. I could see AC focusing on more OTS (read WJ et al.) to give their own Express carriers a little pause. This could be a great opportunity for any Encore/WJ pilot who wants a new start.
Good luck to all who apply.
Cheers.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by Lightchop » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:12 pm

tailgunner wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:44 am
Encore Pilots,
Dust off, and update your AC application. The AC training department is planning and gearing up for almost 600 hires next year and even more the next. Retirements, growth, and the new duty regulations are driving this plan.
AC has hired a lot of their own Express pilots recently and those Express carriers are struggling to maintain their own operations and training. I could see AC focusing on more OTS (read WJ et al.) to give their own Express carriers a little pause. This could be a great opportunity for any Encore/WJ pilot who wants a new start.
Good luck to all who apply.
Cheers.

Funny, cause from what I've been hearing it's probably going to be the complete opposite. More Express, way less OTS. You do know how overstaffed Jazz is right now, right?
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by Rowdy » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:39 pm

Lightchop wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:12 pm
tailgunner wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:44 am
Encore Pilots,
Dust off, and update your AC application. The AC training department is planning and gearing up for almost 600 hires next year and even more the next. Retirements, growth, and the new duty regulations are driving this plan.
AC has hired a lot of their own Express pilots recently and those Express carriers are struggling to maintain their own operations and training. I could see AC focusing on more OTS (read WJ et al.) to give their own Express carriers a little pause. This could be a great opportunity for any Encore/WJ pilot who wants a new start.
Good luck to all who apply.
Cheers.

Funny, cause from what I've been hearing it's probably going to be the complete opposite. More Express, way less OTS. You do know how overstaffed Jazz is right now, right?
I'm sure you know that Jazz is overstaffed presently for a reason. We should be made properly aware end of January.

Also, AC intimated that we would need to provide around 350 pilots via the portal in 2019. plus whatever they take from the other express carriers. Wasn't their last bid showing 410ish vacancies?
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by DH8Pilot » Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:43 pm

Lightchop wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:04 am
Hey if it all falls apart now Encore pilots can know what it's like to be a pilot at any other regional in Canada.
Bingo. There's plenty who've come to Jazz during the period where flow seemed almost guaranteed, only to be shown this could've have been farther from the case. Shouldn't we make it a more even playing field? Why should only Encore pilots be given the right to flow, and why is it assumed the removal of such a flow would result in a mass exodus, when no other regional has such a deal for their pilots?

To play devils advocate, wouldn't removing the carrot of flow to mainline drawing so many pilots to Encore result in greater leverage for their pilots. If all Encore pilots had equal opportunity to advance to mainline carriers as Jazz and Porter, maybe these regionals would have to start fully competing on schedule rules, benefits, and salaries.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by Lightchop » Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:47 pm

DH8Pilot wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:43 pm
Lightchop wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:04 am
Hey if it all falls apart now Encore pilots can know what it's like to be a pilot at any other regional in Canada.
Bingo. There's plenty who've come to Jazz during the period where flow seemed almost guaranteed, only to be shown this could've have been farther from the case. Shouldn't we make it a more even playing field? Why should only Encore pilots be given the right to flow, and why is it assumed the removal of such a flow would result in a mass exodus, when no other regional has such a deal for their pilots?

To play devils advocate, wouldn't removing the carrot of flow to mainline drawing so many pilots to Encore result in greater leverage for their pilots. If all Encore pilots had equal opportunity to advance to mainline carriers as Jazz and Porter, maybe these regionals would have to start fully competing on schedule rules, benefits, and salaries.
Ding ding.

Remove the carrot and now you need to have another way to attract pilots.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by The Tenth Man » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:28 am

flyinhigh wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:00 pm
Oh dear gawd Shallow, i mean swallow.

1) Are you dyslectic? Serious question, you have so many handles on this site it ridiculous to try and keep up on...
I have never been diagnosed as being dyslectic, nor has anyone ever (apart from you) accused me of being dyslectic. I am a fan of the dialectic, as can be seen by my activity on this forum. As well, in my pursuit to design a airspeed indictator for wingsuiting, I have availed myself of the use of dialectrics. It must be said that I definitely do not approve of dianetics, that's just out of this world. And I have to recognize that many of my posts have made some moderators of this forum dyspeptic (I'm looking at you North Shore) . Lastly, being dysmetric, would be disqualifying for the job of piloting an aircraft.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by flyinhigh » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:48 am

Holy crap,

You're responding to a post. While your at it, how about you answer one of the numerous questions that have been posted to you.

Look no further than those of Bede's.
The Tenth Man wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:28 am
flyinhigh wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:00 pm
Oh dear gawd Shallow, i mean swallow.

1) Are you dyslectic? Serious question, you have so many handles on this site it ridiculous to try and keep up on...
I have never been diagnosed as being dyslectic, nor has anyone ever (apart from you) accused me of being dyslectic. I am a fan of the dialectic, as can be seen by my activity on this forum. As well, in my pursuit to design a airspeed indictator for wingsuiting, I have availed myself of the use of dialectrics. It must be said that I definitely do not approve of dianetics, that's just out of this world. And I have to recognize that many of my posts have made some moderators of this forum dyspeptic (I'm looking at you North Shore) . Lastly, being dysmetric, would be disqualifying for the job of piloting an aircraft.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by The Tenth Man » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:50 am

flyinhigh wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:48 am
Holy crap,

You're responding to a post. While your at it, how about you answer one of the numerous questions that have been posted to you.

Look no further than those of Bede's.
The Tenth Man wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:28 am
flyinhigh wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:00 pm
Oh dear gawd Shallow, i mean swallow.

1) Are you dyslectic? Serious question, you have so many handles on this site it ridiculous to try and keep up on...
I have never been diagnosed as being dyslectic, nor has anyone ever (apart from you) accused me of being dyslectic. I am a fan of the dialectic, as can be seen by my activity on this forum. As well, in my pursuit to design a airspeed indictator for wingsuiting, I have availed myself of the use of dialectrics. It must be said that I definitely do not approve of dianetics, that's just out of this world. And I have to recognize that many of my posts have made some moderators of this forum dyspeptic (I'm looking at you North Shore) . Lastly, being dysmetric, would be disqualifying for the job of piloting an aircraft.
Hi Ian. Not to blow my own horn, but if I'd have been paid a few bucks for each identity I've had on this site, I'd have made a mint!

Cheers my friend! The first coffee is on me when we fly together and we can have a laugh about how serious some people take stuff.

Johnny
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flyinhigh
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by flyinhigh » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:54 pm

Ugh, who’s Ian?
The Tenth Man wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:50 am
flyinhigh wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:48 am
Holy crap,

You're responding to a post. While your at it, how about you answer one of the numerous questions that have been posted to you.

Look no further than those of Bede's.
The Tenth Man wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:28 am


I have never been diagnosed as being dyslectic, nor has anyone ever (apart from you) accused me of being dyslectic. I am a fan of the dialectic, as can be seen by my activity on this forum. As well, in my pursuit to design a airspeed indictator for wingsuiting, I have availed myself of the use of dialectrics. It must be said that I definitely do not approve of dianetics, that's just out of this world. And I have to recognize that many of my posts have made some moderators of this forum dyspeptic (I'm looking at you North Shore) . Lastly, being dysmetric, would be disqualifying for the job of piloting an aircraft.
Hi Ian. Not to blow my own horn, but if I'd have been paid a few bucks for each identity I've had on this site, I'd have made a mint!

Cheers my friend! The first coffee is on me when we fly together and we can have a laugh about how serious some people take stuff.

Johnny
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by The Tenth Man » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:45 am

Apparently Ian is a guy who recently moved back to Thunder Bay, where he used to live when he flew MU2's, and now commutes to YYZ.

That and he recently was trashing me on a layover lol.

Cheers, Ian.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by Lightchop » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:31 pm

The Tenth Man wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:45 am
Apparently Ian is a guy who recently moved back to Thunder Bay, where he used to live when he flew MU2's, and now commutes to YYZ.

That and he recently was trashing me on a layover lol.

Cheers, Ian.
I'm sure there's more than just one person trashing you.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by Schooner69A » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:55 pm

"I'm sure there's more than just one person trashing you."

Yes; it IS amazing how many people are lacking in social graces these days. However the ability to hide behind anonymity brings out the worst in some folks...


Me included!

:smt040
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by flyinhigh » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:12 am

Before you fly with this Ian fella I suggest you do some research.

I would truly hate to be you flying with this gentlemen and this topic come up. If this did in fact happen you will probably get the what the hell are you talking about look.

To help you out, I have signed my name to posts that have been directed at you.

Mike
The Tenth Man wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:45 am
Apparently Ian is a guy who recently moved back to Thunder Bay, where he used to live when he flew MU2's, and now commutes to YYZ.

That and he recently was trashing me on a layover lol.

Cheers, Ian.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by LennyLeonard » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:55 am

Did Encore stop hiring? They took down the application link on their website.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by Citationdriver » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:53 pm

I see that the posting for pilots is down at the WJA site. Anyone know if they are still looking for drivers?
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by Fowler » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:24 pm

I assume the pause is for current negotiating and things will pickup. Anyone want to comment how staffing is on the line? Is Encore short and needing fellas soon?
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by JBI » Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:37 pm

The First Officer Job Posting is back up.

As I mentioned in a previous comment, while I don't have inside information, I anticipate hiring will continue throughout the year. Though, as Encore does not have any new aircraft arriving, I don't imagine that it will be at quite the torrid pace that it was last year.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

Post by MrTurbine » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:02 pm

Fowler wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:24 pm
I assume the pause is for current negotiating and things will pickup. Anyone want to comment how staffing is on the line? Is Encore short and needing fellas soon?
Encore will need people this year, but not as much as last year. We still need to figure out a few things post Kaplan award (new mainline/swoop contract) and finish our own negots at encore soon.

Little heavier currently with staffing in YYC, so mostly sending peeps to yyz for the next short little bit.

My best guess, YYC will open up in the summer, and all will be back to normal soon.

Hang in there. Nothing is stalling for hiring, just slowing down here and there, all ops normal.

If you have actual experience, you might be able to swing a 73 spot at swoop or mainline sooner.

Good luck.
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