Hiring outlook

Discuss topics relating to Encore.

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yvrpilot82
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by yvrpilot82 »

As an Encore pilot I'd say Jazz is the way to go. It seems like it's a lot easier now to get over to AC from there, unless you mess up the interview.
Yes, Encore has guaranteed flow and (at the moment anyway) the "one list" for seniority. But please think about how long you'll be spending at Encore. It's not the 3 years to flow as it used to be in days gone by. With close to 600 pilots, and flow being 50-75 on a good year...well, do the math. Would you spend that long at Jazz? Who, it must be said have far better working conditions. I'm not expecting many improvements on our long-awaited contract. My prediction is just basic industry standard duty rigs and holding onto the one-list.
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Yieldermatik
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by Yieldermatik »

yvrpilot82 wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:38 pm As an Encore pilot I'd say Jazz is the way to go. It seems like it's a lot easier now to get over to AC from there, unless you mess up the interview.
Yes, Encore has guaranteed flow and (at the moment anyway) the "one list" for seniority. But please think about how long you'll be spending at Encore. It's not the 3 years to flow as it used to be in days gone by. With close to 600 pilots, and flow being 50-75 on a good year...well, do the math. Would you spend that long at Jazz? Who, it must be said have far better working conditions. I'm not expecting many improvements on our long-awaited contract. My prediction is just basic industry standard duty rigs and holding onto the one-list.
So a new encore pilot would take roughly 10 years to flow? That sounds unreasonable.
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skybaron
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by skybaron »

BE02 Driver wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:35 pm
skybaron wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:23 pm If you want any sort of life outside of work - I would avoid Encore entirely. The guys that left there have ZERO positive things to say about the place. You will be worked to the max almost all the time, and your duty days will almost always be unnecessarily high in hours (not flight time). Encore’s contract is terrible, and judging by their 737 counterpart in their arbitrated outcome, things are likely going to get a lot worse.

Go anywhere but there. 2 cents.
Disagree. Anyone that has zero good things to say about Encore is the type of person that has zero good things to say about any job.

I second Mr. Turbines reply. It's generally a good and FUN place to work. Not a career stop, if you want a regional career Jazz is the place. If you want to flow to mainline with no hassle or interview then go to Encore.
Wrong. After you’ve injected every orfice of koolaid and there’s nothing left but the realization you’ve been screwed by a Smurf, then, give your honest opinion. The morale at WJ is at its worst because of management capitalizing on attitudes like “its okay, because this is a stepping stone, and is way better than the 703 spot I came from”. Enter low wages and max days here. Don’t worry, you’ll get to be an FO at Teal for infinity, or you can upgrade at Pink, “because it’s better than the Q I flew at Encore”. Give your head a shake.

If you’re going to take a beating (because you certainly will) in Canada’s aviation industry, then at the very least, roll with the punches that you know you can take to still be standing in the 12th round.

Anyone under 40, I would skip the Circus that is now WJ Holdings, and DTO Air Canada as fast as possible via Jazz. You’re pension alone can’t be beat, and seniority means everything.
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FlyAlberta
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by FlyAlberta »

Christ... Everything ok man? Someone is salty about life. You obviously don’t have first hand info about CURRENT Encore so why waste time and stress over bashing it. I agree. If you want to go to AC, go to Jazz. End of story. You shouldn’t go to Encore if you don’t want to end up at WJ mainline. Simple really.


As an aside. Most airlines have solid Pilot Assistance Teams on call 24/7 to help if you’re going through a rough patch and are great people to talk to
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skybaron
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by skybaron »

FlyAlberta wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:00 pm Christ... Everything ok man? Someone is salty about life. You obviously don’t have first hand info about CURRENT Encore so why waste time and stress over bashing it. I agree. If you want to go to AC, go to Jazz. End of story. You shouldn’t go to Encore if you don’t want to end up at WJ mainline. Simple really.


As an aside. Most airlines have solid Pilot Assistance Teams on call 24/7 to help if you’re going through a rough patch and are great people to talk to
You mean the members that left for AC? :lol:
Or how about contacting the 1 or maybe tops 2 Encore people with their CV’s submitted elsewhere for CURRENT status update.

Look, I don’t care either way. All I’m saying is that Teal culture went south (deny all you want),and it isn’t the place it used to be. If someone is going to invest time to build their career, then they may as well invest it where it will likely last and be rewarding.

If the OP has the option, go to Jazz.
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Last edited by skybaron on Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:29 am, edited 3 times in total.
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skybaron
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by skybaron »

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Yieldermatik
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by Yieldermatik »

skybaron wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:21 am
FlyAlberta wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:00 pm Christ... Everything ok man? Someone is salty about life. You obviously don’t have first hand info about CURRENT Encore so why waste time and stress over bashing it. I agree. If you want to go to AC, go to Jazz. End of story. You shouldn’t go to Encore if you don’t want to end up at WJ mainline. Simple really.


As an aside. Most airlines have solid Pilot Assistance Teams on call 24/7 to help if you’re going through a rough patch and are great people to talk to
You mean the members that left for AC? :lol:
Or how about contacting the 1 or maybe tops 2 Encore people with their CV’s submitted elsewhere for CURRENT status update.

Look, I don’t care either way. All I’m saying is that Teal culture went south (deny all you want),and it isn’t the place it used to be. If someone is going to invest time to build their career, then they may as well invest it where it will likely last and be rewarding.

If the OP has the option, go to Jazz.
What I see wrong is to dismiss a whole company cause of rough times, which every company goes through. Westjet will get ahead and better times will come. You can’t jump ship or not look their way cause of current labour issues. It will get better and people will still have meaningul careers at the company. No “koolaid” here, just being an adult with a positive attitude, not an adult-sized child whinning and running at the first sign of a challenge. Pilots are supposed to be composed, risilient individuals. I don’t see that a whole lot in these forums.

Cheers and keep your chin up everybody.
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Hangry
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by Hangry »

Most pilots final goal is mainline. Any Encore hopeful needs to be realistic.

How long until Regional left seat.

How long until YYC based right seat mainline. (Assuming your looking for that cause why else would you even be considering encore)

How long until Left seat Mainline.

How long until top scale left seat Mainline at desired base.

If you’re not seriously considering these questions you’re being foolish. Yes Encore will get you an “airline” job but that glow will wear off VERY quickly.

Never mind what Swoop has done to impact all of these factors.

Airlines are about earnings and progression. One day you’ll wake up and realize it’s just a job. When that happenes make sure it’s at least worth your while.

It’s not even about “culture”. Be realistic.
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Freeport_Flyer
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by Freeport_Flyer »

smooth wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:11 pm I did my interview with Encore Jan 31. Got a email for back ground check on Feb 12, reference called on same day. Nothing after that and still waiting. Am I being placed in pool as well? or just too busy to reply me??
flycomercial wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:49 pm Anyone recieved any answers from encore yet?
I'm at the same point as you. Maybe the hiring person is on vacation?
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Gonzodriver
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by Gonzodriver »

Freeport_Flyer wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:30 am
smooth wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:11 pm I did my interview with Encore Jan 31. Got a email for back ground check on Feb 12, reference called on same day. Nothing after that and still waiting. Am I being placed in pool as well? or just too busy to reply me??
flycomercial wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:49 pm Anyone recieved any answers from encore yet?
I'm at the same point as you. Maybe the hiring person is on vacation?
Any news on upcoming ground schools?

guy i know was told they would love to offer him a job as an FO starting in April, that was back in December and its been radio silence ever since. Just wondering if anyone has any inside info on when they will start running classes again?
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MrTurbine
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by MrTurbine »

Yieldermatik wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:09 pm
yvrpilot82 wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:38 pm As an Encore pilot I'd say Jazz is the way to go. It seems like it's a lot easier now to get over to AC from there, unless you mess up the interview.
Yes, Encore has guaranteed flow and (at the moment anyway) the "one list" for seniority. But please think about how long you'll be spending at Encore. It's not the 3 years to flow as it used to be in days gone by. With close to 600 pilots, and flow being 50-75 on a good year...well, do the math. Would you spend that long at Jazz? Who, it must be said have far better working conditions. I'm not expecting many improvements on our long-awaited contract. My prediction is just basic industry standard duty rigs and holding onto the one-list.
So a new encore pilot would take roughly 10 years to flow? That sounds unreasonable.
Wrong. 5 years to flow to mainline, about a year to go to swoop.
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yvrpilot82
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by yvrpilot82 »

How do you figure 5 years to flow to mainline? 600 pilots at Encore. That would involve Encore flowing 120 a year. At the current 50% flow that means WJ would have to hire 240 pilots a year for the next 5 years.
I'm not trying to sound pessimistic, but I don't think that type of growth is on the horizon.
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SPR
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by SPR »

yvrpilot82 wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:49 am How do you figure 5 years to flow to mainline? 600 pilots at Encore. That would involve Encore flowing 120 a year. At the current 50% flow that means WJ would have to hire 240 pilots a year for the next 5 years.
I'm not trying to sound pessimistic, but I don't think that type of growth is on the horizon.
That's assuming that flow stays at 50%. Some classes lately have been 60-70% Encore, and, although it's unlikely, there's a slight possibility that the new contract could include a clause pushing the number higher. Also, you're ignoring all the Encore pilots who move to Transat, Sunwing, AC, corporate, go overseas, or even leave the industry entirely; there are a few guys nearing the end of their careers who might defer flow and just retire if it looks like that's a better option financially. There are some WestJet pilots leaving as well, so it's not just growth that will determine flow. I'd say 5-6 years right now would be realistic, but 10 would be way out there. The current payscale doesn't go past five years, and if the company is expecting people to stay longer than that they're going to have to sweeten the pot.
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RatMan
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by RatMan »

The WJE training taps...have they been turned back on yet? Anybody get a call or have insight??
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MrTurbine
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by MrTurbine »

yvrpilot82 wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:49 am How do you figure 5 years to flow to mainline? 600 pilots at Encore. That would involve Encore flowing 120 a year. At the current 50% flow that means WJ would have to hire 240 pilots a year for the next 5 years.
I'm not trying to sound pessimistic, but I don't think that type of growth is on the horizon.
A MAJORITY of our pilots don’t flow to Westjet mainline. AC, Transat, overseas and other companies/corporate, and a handful just defer. 5 years is realistic. If it were much higher, nobody would stay.
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Freeport_Flyer
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by Freeport_Flyer »

Has anyone heard anything about hiring / ground schools? Anyone?

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tps8903
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by tps8903 »

yvrpilot82 wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:49 am How do you figure 5 years to flow to mainline? 600 pilots at Encore. That would involve Encore flowing 120 a year. At the current 50% flow that means WJ would have to hire 240 pilots a year for the next 5 years.
I'm not trying to sound pessimistic, but I don't think that type of growth is on the horizon.
Hiring is starting again in April. I asked management for a friend who is waiting.

Current flow as of last week is 3 years and 1 month.

I have been keeping tabs on attrition at Encore by crossing names of the list at Encore as the lists are updated and comparing it with flow. As it stands the list moves 15 names a month between flow to Encore, Swoop, other airlines and differing bids. Granted any and all of those deferred folks could Flow at any point slowing the list down.

Using the ACTUAL numbers and not taking into account growth, the current flow time for a new hire will be approximately 2 years and 11 months by time their number is called for mainline. Its a one year wait for Swoop (internal rule) if you should want to work there. In reality the Encore list will be exhausted for Swoop flow by the next bid which means you can go as soon as the company lets you.

Economies change however, but in the last year those are the numbers.
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180
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by 180 »

It wasn’t that long ago that you had to spend 5 to 10 years in the bush doing hard time before you had the time and relevant experience to get into Westjet. Now you can slide into Encore with a thousand hours of day VFR Caravan time.

It wasn’t that long ago that you needed 3,000 hours to sit left seat in a Navajo, 5,000 hours to sit left seat in a King Air, 8,000 hours to sit left seat in a Dash 8, and 10,000 hours to sit right seat in a 737.

And still people are whining about 5 or 6 years at Encore before flowing to Mainline? It’s never been easier!

Consider yourselves lucky to be a Q400 FO with 1,000 hours, a Q400 CA with 2,500 hours, and then a 737 FO with 5,000 hours, all the while living in civilization.

God forbid you have to sit in a Q400 for 5 or 6 years, pretty much straight out of flight school, before you get “your” jet.
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Roadrunnersmother
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by Roadrunnersmother »

180 wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:09 am It wasn’t that long ago that you had to spend 5 to 10 years in the bush doing hard time before you had the time and relevant experience to get into Westjet. Now you can slide into Encore with a thousand hours of day VFR Caravan time.

It wasn’t that long ago that you needed 3,000 hours to sit left seat in a Navajo, 5,000 hours to sit left seat in a King Air, 8,000 hours to sit left seat in a Dash 8, and 10,000 hours to sit right seat in a 737.

And still people are whining about 5 or 6 years at Encore before flowing to Mainline? It’s never been easier!

Consider yourselves lucky to be a Q400 FO with 1,000 hours, a Q400 CA with 2,500 hours, and then a 737 FO with 5,000 hours, all the while living in civilization.

God forbid you have to sit in a Q400 for 5 or 6 years, pretty much straight out of flight school, before you get “your” jet.
It's still hard to get into encore. 6000+ hr seasoned king air captain waiting for call.
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180
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Re: Hiring outlook

Post by 180 »

Hiring has slowed down since the fleet stabilized, but they’re still hiring. And it’s not uncommon to see an Encore FO with an Aerocourse ATPL textbook poking out of their flight bag.
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