Encore contract negotiations

[Yieldermatik]

Word on the street is 50% pay raise, years of service.
Grooming still though, it's a first contract.

50%?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[twinpratts]

When will the details be released, and when does the vote open?

[Yycjetdriver]

Hoping this is true, good thing the other big regional in Canada didn’t recently sign an unprecedented length deal..... oh wait...

[flyinhigh]

Will be a couple weeks until they have everything ready to present.

FYI, a 50% pay bump would pay a first year captain $112 hr. If you think in a first deal that would ever happen than your smokin some good reefer.

When will the details be released, and when does the vote open?

[cloak]

There is no room for a substantial raise (never mind 50%) at Encore. This is because seniority on one list has been priced in at Encore, at a very high premium, for its pay and benefits. The only way that an industry standard, or better yet industry leading wowcon can take place at Encore is if the one list was terminated. Effectively the one list allows the company to hire pilots below industry level in return for a place on the WestJet list. If Encore pilots want a meaningful raise to competitive levels as Porter or Jazz, they are better off to abandon the one list. Jazz doesn't have one list with Air Canada either. Another good improvement would be to secure some level of YOS when they flow to WestJet.

[Freeport_Flyer]

Has anyone seen any real details yet?

[Dizzy D]

Has anyone seen any real details yet?

Details will not be out until after the MEC meeting on April 17-18.

[twinpratts]

ok... how about now?

[flyinhigh]

1. 6 year pay scale with minor pay bump for FOs. Captains up year one now to 79.80, working up to $100 per hour at the end of the deal.

2. Full trip and duty rigs to start next year

3. Short term disability paid by company

4. Alter-ego letter from westjet promising not to start Encore 2.0, however CPAs still aloud.

5. A transfer payment of $1200 per month upon flow over to mainline for 24 months to make the pay cut not hurt so mich.

6. Adopted mainline commuting language. I.e, no commuting policy.

7. Increased reserve % system wide, however better reserve rules like a max 16 hour day staring at the fallout window.

One list is now part of the deal, language is written and agreed/signed by all but mainline MEC as they have implementation issues and won’t sign it until that is taken care of.

Those are the gains, and some loses. Many more as well

[skybaron]

Are they getting YEARS OF SERVICE?

[GATRKGA]

Are they getting YEARS OF SERVICE?

The way I read the post above, no YOS. You get 1200 / month for 24 months when you flow to WJ.

That means first year salary is closer to 68k (54k+14 top up) and second year you're around 72k or so. Correct?

Smart move by management, looks like typical flow takes around 5 years. So if you carried YOS you'd be around a 100k range without OT is that correct?

What are you guys thinking over there at Encore? Vote in favor? What were the biggest items? I would imagine YOS and one list should go hand in hand. I don't see how you guys can be viewed as "one team" otherwise. Or is there a rationale for not getting YOS that I am not considering? What's making it worthwhile to stay for 5-6 years at Encore? The seniority number I guess? Interesting how you're senior enough to slide ahead a bunch of guys, but a bunch of guys hired at WJ after you will be making more than you... what a mess.

[cloak]

... Interesting how you're senior enough to slide ahead a bunch of guys, but a bunch of guys hired at WJ after you will be making more than you... what a mess.

Good observation, YOS may be more beneficial in lieu of the "one list", meaning pilots move up with YOS within the WestJet group in terms of pay and vacation, and seniority restarts with flow. When seniority is not priced in, compensation would be higher at Encore; and YOS makes pay grow even after flow. While pilots getting hired directly into WestJet/Swoop may be ahead in seniority, pilots from Encore will flow with more YOS, vacation and higher pay. Jazz pilots do not have a seniority number at Air Canada/Rouge and this is reflected in their compensation; it's not priced in. Even without the one list, guaranteed flow at Encore is better than Jazz PML. Wider perspective allows exploring new possibilities.

[skybaron]

Are they getting YEARS OF SERVICE?

The way I read the post above, no YOS. You get 1200 / month for 24 months when you flow to WJ.

That means first year salary is closer to 68k (54k+14 top up) and second year you're around 72k or so. Correct?

Smart move by management, looks like typical flow takes around 5 years. So if you carried YOS you'd be around a 100k range without OT is that correct?

What are you guys thinking over there at Encore? Vote in favor? What were the biggest items? I would imagine YOS and one list should go hand in hand. I don't see how you guys can be viewed as "one team" otherwise. Or is there a rationale for not getting YOS that I am not considering? What's making it worthwhile to stay for 5-6 years at Encore? The seniority number I guess? Interesting how you're senior enough to slide ahead a bunch of guys, but a bunch of guys hired at WJ after you will be making more than you... what a mess.

How is this One List even up for discussion?
This has been agreed upon by all parties ages ago. There must be more to this story, or is it just the FEAR of discussing it driving this TA towards signatures?

It should be without question that at the very least, given the demand of pilots needed, especially if they’re trying to even fill the void of those that have left for other companies, they should easily be able to obtain:

YEARS OF SERVICE within this so called One List.

Anything else offered is just a slap in the face. Too bad, Encore pilots have the chance their counterparts didn’t. Vote. Don’t settle for less. Your group is likely one of the most worked exhausted group since the probably the days of Georgian.

[JBI]

Currently lots of respectful discussion going on amongst the Encore pilots in private.

Years of service, while sounding great on paper, would cost the company more than they currently pay for ALL the Encore Captains combined or (very) roughly, 75% of the current Encore pilot pay roll. "Hi company, yes, we would all like 75% raises..." (I mean don't get me wrong, we would, but let's be realistic here).

There is a lot more to the story with respect to the One List. Not done through fear or trickery but as a result of having two separate pilot unions who, rightfully, are both trying to get things settled with the company.

Both "good" and "bad" things in this new TA with info sessions for the pilots taking place all this week. I'm sure the folks on AvCanada will have opinions (especially since more hockey teams have been eliminated from the playoffs), but don't worry, you'll be the first (along with the general public) to hear the results.

[tps8903]

Deleted.

[cloak]

Just to keep things in perspective though, Jazz and Sky regional pilots not only don't have YOS, but also no guaranteed flow...perspective!

[bob99]

Just to keep things in perspective though, Jazz and Sky regional pilots not only don't have YOS, but also no guaranteed flow...perspective!

Yes.

I don't know the ins and outs of the Jazz agreement, but Encore pilots will have guaranteed flow (60%), keep their seniority number and vacation time, and get a 'bonus' of $28,800 when they flow. The FO pay is more than Jazz, Captains slightly less. Trip and duty rigs should improve the schedules.

[C-GGGQ]

Just a question about lingo. Not sure what people mean by trip and duty rigs? Hear it all the time about negotiations but not sure exactly what's being asked for

[Hangry]

Just to keep things in perspective though, Jazz and Sky regional pilots not only don't have YOS, but also no guaranteed flow...perspective!

True. Except Jazz and Sky pilots will most likely end up at AC, Not WJ. AC where pay and progression are assured.

WJ where you get to aspire to seat right seat forever. How long is it going to take someone to reach top payscale at mainline? Or you could flow to Swoop I guess. Sounds really fun over there.

[bob99]

Just a question about lingo. Not sure what people mean by trip and duty rigs? Hear it all the time about negotiations but not sure exactly what's being asked for

It's basically a way of calculating better pay/credit for your time. It guarantees that you'll get paid at least 4 hours per day, or half the duty time, whichever is greater. Or, 1 hour of pay for every 4 hours of time away from base. A 4 day pairing is typically 80 hours. That would equal 20 hours of pay. Of the 3 examples, you get whichever is higher. Right now Encore doesn't have any of that.