One List is Back!!

Discuss topics relating to Encore.

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plausiblyannonymous
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by plausiblyannonymous »

Hangry wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:54 am
plausiblyannonymous wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:38 am
Thorjones wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:58 am Future so bright now that even wj managements family members have resumes at AC.....
Of course management is going to be looking for jobs... they're the ones who have a target on their back. Onex isn't going to want to pay hundreds of people to do the jobs of tens.

As far as pilots are concerned, why wouldn't you always have an eye out? Air Canada pilots apply for WestJet too. It goes back and forth... right now it's WJ -> AC, but it'll soon flop back in the other direction.
Just because you say it doesn’t make it true.
You can hate WestJet as much as you want... it doesn't make it a bad place to work.

You obviously have not worked in a bad place. A place where you aren't paid on time, bullied into taking unsafe aircraft, or being told to "take a piss or get off the pot" by your direct superior.
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Sharklasers
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by Sharklasers »

plausiblyannonymous wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:38 am
Thorjones wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:58 am Future so bright now that even wj managements family members have resumes at AC.....
Of course management is going to be looking for jobs... they're the ones who have a target on their back. Onex isn't going to want to pay hundreds of people to do the jobs of tens.

As far as pilots are concerned, why wouldn't you always have an eye out? Air Canada pilots apply for WestJet too. It goes back and forth... right now it's WJ -> AC, but it'll soon flop back in the other direction.
Ah yes I remember when Westjet groundschools had 2-5 mainline AC guys per class.... oh wait I don’t because that never happened.
“Soon it’ll flop back in the other direction” lol
don’t let facts stand in your way.
Here’s a fact though in 2019 alone AC hired 28 mainline Westjet pilots and 38 encore drivers. I believe that moved you up the list more than your retirements did.
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plausiblyannonymous
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by plausiblyannonymous »

Sharklasers wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:09 pm
plausiblyannonymous wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:38 am
Thorjones wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:58 am Future so bright now that even wj managements family members have resumes at AC.....
Of course management is going to be looking for jobs... they're the ones who have a target on their back. Onex isn't going to want to pay hundreds of people to do the jobs of tens.

As far as pilots are concerned, why wouldn't you always have an eye out? Air Canada pilots apply for WestJet too. It goes back and forth... right now it's WJ -> AC, but it'll soon flop back in the other direction.
Ah yes I remember when Westjet groundschools had 2-5 mainline AC guys per class.... oh wait I don’t because that never happened.
“Soon it’ll flop back in the other direction” lol
don’t let facts stand in your way.
Here’s a fact though in 2019 alone AC hired 28 mainline Westjet pilots and 38 encore drivers. I believe that moved you up the list more than your retirements did.
Does it make you happy that people used to work at WestJet and now work at Air Canada?

It makes me happy that I get the schedule I want. Every day I have needed off I have gotten off. I bid for one-days so that I can be home. I haven't had a layover since October. I have the confidence that my airline will survive this recession (if it hits) because it has just gotten several billion dollars of liquid cash AND is supported by a 38 billion dollar company.

How are you going to feel when Air Transat guys are pushing you down your list? Do you deny that one side or the other is going to be upset? At that point, the AT guys WILL BE AC guys and WestJet will be dangling the treat of socialized bidding.
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DaveP
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by DaveP »

Thorjones wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:58 am Future so bright now that even wj managements family members have resumes at AC.....
Hi Thor
That def goes both ways (as I look at the resumes daily). I don’t think it honestly says much other than it proving people want to make choices when the decision comes. Might as well hedge your bets so to speak - would you not agree?

As for the attrition - nobody is a fan of it but it will always happen and for different reasons. I’m thinking the settled “one list and top up” with likely make that decision harder for some at Encore that are thinking about the jump. When we performed a handful of exit interviews- it was pretty evident the items such as perceived faster career advancement, unsettled one list and quicker base selection were top of mind. We can scratch one off the list for sure now! We are working on the others.

My prediction is once this year (2020) is done with fatigue and duty rules for both carriers and AC has caught up with its 60-65 - things will normalize or slow in the hiring world again.

WJ will likely still be growing it’s widebody fleet (3 more Dreamliners in the next few months then 4 early next year again) and the regular ongoing narrowbody replacements/growth and adjustments - then who knows - perhaps some other rumours might come to light too.

Our retirements too, are starting to grow as well. I know I’m getting there in age too but I can still roll diesel drums just like the young guys when I fly floats in the summer!!

I think Brian Z’s network vision has a lot of merit for WJ too.

As someone mentioned - socialized bidding for holidays and scheduling is pretty sweet. Even after being here 19 years I’m still a proponent of it.
Cheers
Dave
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Hangry
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by Hangry »

plausiblyannonymous wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:29 pm
Hangry wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:54 am
plausiblyannonymous wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:38 am

Of course management is going to be looking for jobs... they're the ones who have a target on their back. Onex isn't going to want to pay hundreds of people to do the jobs of tens.

As far as pilots are concerned, why wouldn't you always have an eye out? Air Canada pilots apply for WestJet too. It goes back and forth... right now it's WJ -> AC, but it'll soon flop back in the other direction.
Just because you say it doesn’t make it true.
You can hate WestJet as much as you want... it doesn't make it a bad place to work.

You obviously have not worked in a bad place. A place where you aren't paid on time, bullied into taking unsafe aircraft, or being told to "take a piss or get off the pot" by your direct superior.
No one hates WestJet. But to even infer someone is going to leave AC to sit behind 500 Encore regional pilots to go to WJ makes you sound like you’re 15.
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Thorjones
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by Thorjones »

I don't think theres been an AC pilot applying to WestJet in the last 10 year. Let me know if I'm wrong.
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by Yycjetdriver »

plausiblyannonymous wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:29 pm
Hangry wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:54 am
plausiblyannonymous wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:38 am

Of course management is going to be looking for jobs... they're the ones who have a target on their back. Onex isn't going to want to pay hundreds of people to do the jobs of tens.

As far as pilots are concerned, why wouldn't you always have an eye out? Air Canada pilots apply for WestJet too. It goes back and forth... right now it's WJ -> AC, but it'll soon flop back in the other direction.
Just because you say it doesn’t make it true.
You can hate WestJet as much as you want... it doesn't make it a bad place to work.

You obviously have not worked in a bad place. A place where you aren't paid on time, bullied into taking unsafe aircraft, or being told to "take a piss or get off the pot" by your direct superior.
You can justify any job when you’re not comparing apples to apples. If you’re comparing a Mainline 737 position to “a bad place” be that a shitty nothern 703 job then yes of course WJ looks like a great spot.
When you compare WJ to 99% of North American mainline carriers, you’d be hard pressed to find a worse contract.
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DaveP
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by DaveP »

Thorjones wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:54 am I don't think theres been an AC pilot applying to WestJet in the last 10 year. Let me know if I'm wrong.
We have a handful but not many Thor. We hired more when AC was laying off a bunch of years back. Cheers
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98 Corolla
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by 98 Corolla »

Be careful boasting about superior job security. Karma may come back and bite you for that comment. Now that Onex is in control that is.
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Sharklasers
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by Sharklasers »

Exactly, no private equity firm in the history of capitalism has let an acquisition sit on “billions of liquid cash”
That money’s gone homey, it’s just as likely Onex rips WJ down to the studs and then relists a lean mean flying machine as anything else.
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DaveP
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by DaveP »

Hi
I wouldn’t categorize it as “boasting”. For a guy who has gone through a couple layoffs and career “stalls” in my career I know well how it works. I do know that this place believes in methodical growth - unlike the years of throw every piece of metal at things.
Time will tell, but let’s be clear - it’s not boasting. It’s the “what I know of today” vs a guess - and yes - the industry can turn on a dime. I agree with you there!
Cheers
Dave
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flyingvinnie
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by flyingvinnie »

FlyAlberta wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:41 pm
DaveP wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:30 pm Super happy for you guys!

It’s great to take the lead on this sort of arrangement in Canada. Once hired - no more interviews, no more pay cut to transfer to WJ. It’s pretty sweet for a pilot starting at WJE.

Do the best job we can now - support our guests and support our growth! It’s been a weird couple years here but as I mentioned before - I think we have rounded the corner and the foot is on the gas.

Take care
Dave

Dave,

I would respectfully like to clarify some incorrect info in your post. Encore pilots still take a pay cut to flow to Mainline or Swoop. While REIP narrows the gap it does not fully make up the difference. I truly hope that there are discussions in the works to completely eliminate the pay cut for the folks advancing their career within the WestJet group.

Pay cut and advancing career in the same sentence, that’s interesting!
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Squid
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by Squid »

flyingvinnie wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:28 am
FlyAlberta wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:41 pm
DaveP wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:30 pm Super happy for you guys!

It’s great to take the lead on this sort of arrangement in Canada. Once hired - no more interviews, no more pay cut to transfer to WJ. It’s pretty sweet for a pilot starting at WJE.

Do the best job we can now - support our guests and support our growth! It’s been a weird couple years here but as I mentioned before - I think we have rounded the corner and the foot is on the gas.

Take care
Dave

Dave,

I would respectfully like to clarify some incorrect info in your post. Encore pilots still take a pay cut to flow to Mainline or Swoop. While REIP narrows the gap it does not fully make up the difference. I truly hope that there are discussions in the works to completely eliminate the pay cut for the folks advancing their career within the WestJet group.

Pay cut and advancing career in the same sentence, that’s interesting!
Canadian aviation bud
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stillflying
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by stillflying »

Squid wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:53 pm
flyingvinnie wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:28 am
FlyAlberta wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:41 pm


Dave,

I would respectfully like to clarify some incorrect info in your post. Encore pilots still take a pay cut to flow to Mainline or Swoop. While REIP narrows the gap it does not fully make up the difference. I truly hope that there are discussions in the works to completely eliminate the pay cut for the folks advancing their career within the WestJet group.

Pay cut and advancing career in the same sentence, that’s interesting!
Canadian aviation bud
We can fix that. With the PTA as a a huge step in the right direction, we can collectively move forward and bring back some of the sanity to this career path. If we look overseas, it's already happening.
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Freeport_Flyer
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by Freeport_Flyer »

Glad to hear the one list is back!

How is the whole PTA thing going? I heard flow has stopped for an undetermined amount of time? Any truth to the rumours?
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plausiblyannonymous
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by plausiblyannonymous »

Freeport_Flyer wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:59 pm Glad to hear the one list is back!

How is the whole PTA thing going? I heard flow has stopped for an undetermined amount of time? Any truth to the rumours?
The PTA is in force and enforceable.

The rumours are true, but flow is promised to begin within the month, if they haven't already begun.
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by Yycjetdriver »

plausiblyannonymous wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:49 pm
Freeport_Flyer wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:59 pm Glad to hear the one list is back!

How is the whole PTA thing going? I heard flow has stopped for an undetermined amount of time? Any truth to the rumours?
The PTA is in force and enforceable.

The rumours are true, but flow is promised to begin within the month, if they haven't already begun.
Promises from this management group isn’t worth jack sh*t. Heck they go against the contract continuously, you should zero faith in their promises.
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yvrpilot82
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by yvrpilot82 »

[/quote]

The PTA is in force and enforceable.

The rumours are true, but flow is promised to begin within the month, if they haven't already begun.
[/quote]

When was that promised? Where do you get this nonsense from?
If you're even an Encore pilot you'd know the last we heard was second hand info from a town hall at which we were told July at the earliest. I wouldn't count on that either with how short they are on captains.
It would be nice if we got more than word-of-mouth information from management on flow, but that hasn't happened in a long long time.
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DirtyDashDriver
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by DirtyDashDriver »

plausiblyannonymous wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:49 pm
Freeport_Flyer wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:59 pm Glad to hear the one list is back!

How is the whole PTA thing going? I heard flow has stopped for an undetermined amount of time? Any truth to the rumours?
The PTA is in force and enforceable.

The rumours are true, but flow is promised to begin within the month, if they haven't already begun.
Man, I gotta tell you that you're going to be in for a world of hurt one day if you keep believing rumours with the optimistic attitude you have. July is the last confirmed date from both management and ALPA. If you've heard that flow will start up earlier than that from someone else, I'd a) want to know their position within the company, and b) was it confirmed by the other side of the table.

As our mainline friends know all too well, management can promise the world - include Premium Pay of 2x during the holidays - but nothing happens without agreement from both parties.
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tps8903
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Re: One List is Back!!

Post by tps8903 »

DirtyDashDriver wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:53 pm
plausiblyannonymous wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:49 pm
Freeport_Flyer wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:59 pm Glad to hear the one list is back!

How is the whole PTA thing going? I heard flow has stopped for an undetermined amount of time? Any truth to the rumours?
The PTA is in force and enforceable.

The rumours are true, but flow is promised to begin within the month, if they haven't already begun.
Man, I gotta tell you that you're going to be in for a world of hurt one day if you keep believing rumours with the optimistic attitude you have. July is the last confirmed date from both management and ALPA. If you've heard that flow will start up earlier than that from someone else, I'd a) want to know their position within the company, and b) was it confirmed by the other side of the table.

As our mainline friends know all too well, management can promise the world - include Premium Pay of 2x during the holidays - but nothing happens without agreement from both parties.
Flow is back in February. Guess the rumors were true.
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