Approach ban

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thenoflyzone
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Approach ban

Post by thenoflyzone » Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:27 pm

Quick question.

TS A321. CATI ILS on a runway with HIALS but no CL. What is the minimum RVR required to fly the approach and attempt a landing?
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indieadventurer
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Re: Approach ban

Post by indieadventurer » Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:56 pm

Without centre-line lighting 3/8 SM or 1600 RVR, assuming standard 1/2 2600 RVR advisory visibility for the CAT 1.

That answer is not TSC specific.
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thenoflyzone
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Re: Approach ban

Post by thenoflyzone » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:15 am

So no OPS SPEC to go down to 1200?
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indieadventurer
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Re: Approach ban

Post by indieadventurer » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:27 am

The ops spec requires runway centreline lighting on a CAT 1 for 1200 RVR.
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chaster
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Re: Approach ban

Post by chaster » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:16 am

Are you a COP or just Curious? :)
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thenoflyzone
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Re: Approach ban

Post by thenoflyzone » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:29 pm

Just curious. My signature below each of my posts doesn’t hide who I am.

I’ll put it to you another way.

At the airport I work at, RVRs dropped down to 1200ft and below for a few hours. Every remaining lander that night diverted (about 10-15 planes) except one. A Transat A321. He landed with the RVR steady at 1200ft throughout his approach.

Hence why I asked.
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ant_321
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Re: Approach ban

Post by ant_321 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:24 pm

I’m not sure about transat but I was under the impression most larger carriers weren’t using the 1200 RVR CAT 1 ops Spec any more. Where I work we need at least 1600 for a CAT 1 regardless of lighting.
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GoinVertical
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Re: Approach ban

Post by GoinVertical » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:17 pm

Does the runway have an LPV with advisory vis of 1/2 sm?

I don't work for Transat, but our ops spec allows for non precision approaches and "approaches with vertical guidance" to 50% without centreline lighting, but you need it for a Cat 1.

Not sure if this is a loophole or if we are all reading it wrong, but the way I take it is if the advisory vis is 1/2 sm, we are good to 1200 RVR on an LPV even without CL Lighting...

If someone can correct me or make more sense of it please do, because I know that this doesn't make sense from a common-sense point of view.
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digits_
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Re: Approach ban

Post by digits_ » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:01 pm

GoinVertical wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:17 pm


Not sure if this is a loophole or if we are all reading it wrong, but the way I take it is if the advisory vis is 1/2 sm, we are good to 1200 RVR on an LPV even without CL Lighting...
I don't know the specifics at Air Transat, but you are correct that some ops specs allow you to have lower approach ban minima for an LPV than for an ILS.

Not entirely sure what the idea behind it is. Then again, I'm not entirely sure what the purpose of the approach ban is nowadays.
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FICU
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Re: Approach ban

Post by FICU » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:06 pm

I think an RNAV LPV is still considered a "non precision" approach so the ILS CAT1 approach ban doesn't apply to it.
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rudder
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Re: Approach ban

Post by rudder » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:10 am

For the purpose of an IFR ride, TC considers a WAAS enabled GPS approach to LPV minimums to be a precision approach.

Why? Due to vertical guidance.

When you consider that the LPV minimums are near or at Cat 1 minimums for several approaches in Canada it validates that supposition.

OPS SPECS are issued carrier specific (but are often similarly worded). Answer to any OPS SPEC question would have to come directly from that carrier.
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FICU
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Re: Approach ban

Post by FICU » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:47 am

Interesting because for the enforcement of the approach ban a RNAV LPV is still considered non-precision... unless that has changed.
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Cessna 180
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Re: Approach ban

Post by Cessna 180 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:00 pm

What TC allows as practice (LPV instead of ILS for a check ride), isn't consistent with real world application or the regulations. A LPV approach is not a precision approach. They're just using it as practice because it's "good enough" to test a candidate (just like a hood is "good enough" to simulate IMC).
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thenoflyzone
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Re: Approach ban

Post by thenoflyzone » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:59 pm

GoinVertical wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:17 pm
Does the runway have an LPV with advisory vis of 1/2 sm?
Yes it does.
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