DOH merge.

Discuss topics related to Air Transat.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, Sulako, North Shore

Post Reply
garfield
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:35 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by garfield » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:06 pm

Before that happening you need :
A) Shareholders approval (I don't know why a shareholder would sell for 13$ when you can get 14 or even more)
B) Minister approval (more likely)
---------- ADS -----------
  

Kaykay
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:21 am
Location: Canada...sometimes

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Kaykay » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:12 pm

WRONG. A seniority merger will happen. No Air Canada Express operator flys aircraft with more than 75 seats, and one will NOT be set up that does.

Its crazy to think for even a second that there will be another airline with a separate pilot list flying around in large jets owned by AC. The Contract, that Calin said ".....will be respected...." is -absolutely crystal clear- about this.

I don't know how people come up with this stuff.

DP.
Yeah...last I checked, those RJ 900s and Q400s are 76 seats...
---------- ADS -----------
  

Fanblade
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 866
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Fanblade » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:29 pm

altiplano wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:07 pm
Fanblade wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:19 pm
One positive, if you think like me, is we will need a certification vote. Hopefully bye bye ACPA
Are you crazy? Shut down your representation the day you need it the most? The AT MEC at that moment would take over the whole group... No matter how disfunctional ACPA may be, that's ridiculous. Put the acquisition to bed first, then revisit ALPA.
ACPA would still represent on merger issues. Keeping ACPA is what is ridiculous.

All it will take is about 1700 ACPA pilots to vote with Transat. I suspect ALPA will sell hard to us.
---------- ADS -----------
  

goleafsgo
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:13 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by goleafsgo » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:20 pm

Kaykay wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:12 pm
WRONG. A seniority merger will happen. No Air Canada Express operator flys aircraft with more than 75 seats, and one will NOT be set up that does.

Its crazy to think for even a second that there will be another airline with a separate pilot list flying around in large jets owned by AC. The Contract, that Calin said ".....will be respected...." is -absolutely crystal clear- about this.

I don't know how people come up with this stuff.

DP.
Yeah...last I checked, those RJ 900s and Q400s are 76 seats...
Same with the E175s
---------- ADS -----------
  

PositiveRate27
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:27 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by PositiveRate27 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:21 pm

FL-280 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:04 pm
WRONG. A seniority merger will happen. No Air Canada Express operator flys aircraft with more than 75 seats, and one will NOT be set up that does.

Its crazy to think for even a second that there will be another airline with a separate pilot list flying around in large jets owned by AC. The Contract, that Calin said ".....will be respected...." is -absolutely crystal clear- about this.

I don't know how people come up with this stuff.

DP.
[/quote]

I dont know how you come up with the regionals can't fly aircraft with more than 75 seats, we better ground all the Q4 and the RJ'S then eh.... seems like no one knows what they are talking about.

My guess, TS, will stay TS.... and this story aint over boys
[/quote]

As per the scope in the contract, the only flying that can be done outside of the AC pilot list is Tier 2&3 CPA flying. Jets are capped at 76 seats and Turbo Props at 80 seats. Any CPA flying is also restricted to domestic and trans boarder flying. TS breaks every marker of the CPA scope clause so as per the current contract TS will not be flown as a CPA or affiliate.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Duke Point
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:42 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Duke Point » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:29 pm

75..76....80.....certainly less than 100, which Transat nor AC has any of, nor are ever getting.

I think I made my point.....I admit a hair can be split, if you need to split it.

What point are you guys trying to make?

DP.
---------- ADS -----------
  

bruced007
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:48 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by bruced007 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:05 am

We lives in times of change, seems like TS could be the first express carrier that's more than 80 seats . What would be more interesting is what happens to Rouge ???
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Jean-Pierre
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:56 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Jean-Pierre » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:11 am

I suspect they found language in the collective agreement that will give a legal foothold to run Transat without merging the pilot. Notice he does not say he will merge the pilot but instead 'I will honor the collective agreement' *grin*. Of course ACPA will fight it but it will take forever.
---------- ADS -----------
  

JoeyBarton
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:02 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by JoeyBarton » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:40 am

Keeping them separate with proper language to avoid them to grow, and optional flow BOTL for the guys who want to be on the ac payscale, how does that sound? Status quo for everybody
---------- ADS -----------
  

flyinhigh
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2516
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:42 pm
Location: my couch

Re: DOH merge.

Post by flyinhigh » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:37 am

I just started at TS and can say this.

There is no way in hell ACPA or any AC pilot should allow any affiliate. My understanding of your scope language in the contract is that it is not going to happen, so don’t open any doors for it to happen as in 5 years Calvin will ram it down your throat.

If they want to keep it seperate than the only way to do it is like the westjet/swoop or AC/Rouge. One pilot list and bid to the operation which suits you.

As for the integration of the lists, thats beyond my per view as I will be bottom of the list, but I can say DOH is not happening. Th AC list is already not DOH and precedence has been set.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Victory
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 438
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:32 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Victory » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:35 am

New hire at TS wants merge. News at 11
---------- ADS -----------
  

aerodude
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 8:16 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by aerodude » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:52 am

flyinhigh wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:37 am
I just started at TS and can say this.

There is no way in hell ACPA or any AC pilot should allow any affiliate. My understanding of your scope language in the contract is that it is not going to happen, so don’t open any doors for it to happen as in 5 years Calvin will ram it down your throat.

If they want to keep it seperate than the only way to do it is like the westjet/swoop or AC/Rouge. One pilot list and bid to the operation which suits you.

As for the integration of the lists, thats beyond my per view as I will be bottom of the list, but I can say DOH is not happening. Th AC list is already not DOH and precedence has been set.
Thanks junior
---------- ADS -----------
  

Fanblade
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 866
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Fanblade » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:20 am

Interesting,

Being up front with your bias is about as transparent as anyone can get. Yet that transparency is then used in a demeaning fashion to attack the poster, rather than the message. Which by the way is spot on.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Habslover
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 5:46 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Habslover » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:55 am

Duke Point wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:28 am
Habslover wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:52 am
Hi o, hi o, it’s off to fly 777 I go!!

Great news dis morning my friend, the acquisition has ‘append!
We will all be flying de mighty 777 soon! Our Unions are ‘ard at de work, making us winners in de coming years....while I will miss dis beautiful tree turdy, it is times I take de control of the Boeing. Like they say, “if it is a Boeing, I’ll skip over AC pilot on the list and get going!” I kid, I kid. After all it’s not skipping , it’s my company eh!

C’est la vie my friend....I’m off for a nice stroll on the South of France as I contemplate the years ahead, I had planned to retire at 60, but I’m afraid that is put off for now....making over 300 thousand dollars a year is much to nice to give up....afraid it’ll be 65 for me....who knows maybe 67!!
Wow...that's really offensive. You should be banned from the forum.

DP.
I apologize my friend, if you ‘ave been offended, for my truthful post.....can you see anything I have said that was untruthful?

Imagine how offended my poor fellow pilot will feel who are senior enough to fly the big 777 or who are senior enough to not work weekends, but unfortunately won’t be when me and my friends show up. Now dat is offensive.

Imagine how offended the English speaking only original AC F/O will feel when he comes on my flight that is all French....while yes we all can speak English, but we like to speak French more.....I’m sure he will have a book to read or some ting....if not I can fill him later on what the crew were talking about.

Imagine how offended the pilots who are at AC who have just finished the 4 year poverty pay.....only to see my guys all come over not having to interview, not having to complete flat pay, or not having to complete being junior. That my friend is offensive.....

But lucky me, I am on da winning side....it’s like winning the lottery really....my wife she very ‘appy. She out renewing our Habitant season ticket today....Go Habs go!
---------- ADS -----------
  

Jumbo744
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:32 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Jumbo744 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:16 am

I am not AC, not TS. I get habslover intent to be funny and upset some of the folks not happy about this at AC. However, I must say you have to be pretty stupid, if not retarted, to waste so much time typing these posts. Some might find it funny, as I did when I read the first one, but I think now you should probably ask yourself some questions. Habslover is probably one of those weirdos that you meet in the shuttle bus: you know, those who keep their hats on, and immediately stare down at their phone screens pretending to be busy, too scared to interact socially and probably don't know how to take a girl on a date...basically a real P...y
---------- ADS -----------
  

Hangry
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:05 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Hangry » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:45 am

Jumbo744 wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:16 am
I am not AC, not TS. I get habslover intent to be funny and upset some of the folks not happy about this at AC. However, I must say you have to be pretty stupid, if not retarted, to waste so much time typing these posts. Some might find it funny, as I did when I read the first one, but I think now you should probably ask yourself some questions. Habslover is probably one of those weirdos that you meet in the shuttle bus: you know, those who keep their hats on, and immediately stare down at their phone screens pretending to be busy, too scared to interact socially and probably don't know how to take a girl on a date...basically a real P...y
#RWORDALERT

SJW's enroute
---------- ADS -----------
  

altiplano
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:57 am

LOL... Douchebags are funny. Keep it going... I think it's a great laugh...

You won't be ratio'd or DOH'd into the 777. Arbitrators look at exactly that, career expectations, and no lottery wins at the exclusive cost of the other group. Even ALPAs merger policy considers this.

We'll all get a fair deal and if you're young enough and senior enough eventually you'll see it 777 mainline... After the fences come down, if you decide to come to AC, when vacancies open it will be mainline 330CA for the most senior and 320CA for most of the rest of your CA seniority level if you want a left seat at AC mainline.

Or maybe you'll be happy protecting your current seat, schedule, and lifestyle by staying at the new LCCC as in LCC-C-scale that will get proposed and bought... is that what's best for the whole of us? Probably not, but if TS guys think that they can roll right in on top that's what will get passed.

Rouge767s back into the mainline list to maintain the WB lcc cap at C-scale, maybe we'll give them a couple more WB even to seal the deal, and you guys can fly the tree-turdy at C-scale rates, one or two will bid over on each equipment bid, but no bump and flush will mean it will be several years until most would be able to hold a decent mainline seat...

Again, not ideal, but push the AC guys enough and that's what will happen. DFR you say? It won't happen because you won't be able to demonstrate harm, it would still be better than the contract you are already on, that you negotiated and voted for, and the fences would have already been dictated in an arbitration... plus bump and flush would cost the company an unreasonable harm...

Not to mention...do you have any course rights? I mean you only get them as a new hire here and again in 2027 if you were here in July 2012 or 15 years after your service anniversary if you're all out... if you aren't a new hire, and you don't have any course rights... I wonder, but you might have to wait until 2027 or 15 year service anniversary to make your move off anything but the 320/330?

But keep the posts going! Good times.
---------- ADS -----------
  

tintin42
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 9:06 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by tintin42 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:40 am

As a Air Transat pilot, I'm pretty sure Habslover is not one of us, he is a caricature of one. Who knows, he might even be a AC pilot wanting to hype other AC pilots against us.
---------- ADS -----------
  

TSAM
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by TSAM » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:42 am

Altiplano, I would've thought you'd know better than to waste your time with that post, rehabslover isn't a TS pilot. No one at TS is expecting to roll in at the top or push our way in. We all want a fair deal. Simple as that. We all know what options there are out there, maybe some new ones our respective merger committees are exploring or have yet to discover. We can all dream up scenarios, but I'm fairly certain the one that gets chosen whether by vote or arbitration, certainly won't be one that gets posted on avcanada.

And if you think C sale is justified that will eventually drag down the rest over time then that is on the current AC group. But I don't think a vindictive burn them all approach is good for anyone.

Course rights? I don't think anyone here is concerned with that at the moment. I and perhaps others will be happy to stick to the blue tail busses.
---------- ADS -----------
  

altiplano
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:10 pm

C-scale as I said isn't ideal. I can see a lots of voting out of spite though if guys are getting burned too badly and it's what management wants I am sure...

So we all better get on board a fair deal and focus on gains all across for the new group. You guys win here no matter what, there will be no BOTL or anything of the sort, meanwhile all but the top 20% or so of AC guys lose, try to rub it in though, try to push them down further and you @#$! us all.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Fanblade
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 866
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Fanblade » Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:36 pm

Click on his user name and select “add foe”.

Instant peace. :lol:
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Daniel Cooper
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:38 am
Location: Unknown

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Daniel Cooper » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:34 am

Does anyone know when the shareholder vote will be held?
---------- ADS -----------
  

Gilles Hudicourt
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2034
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:51 am
Location: YUL

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:30 am

September
---------- ADS -----------
  

Gilles Hudicourt
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2034
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:51 am
Location: YUL

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:40 am

There is so much garbage and venom on this thread, I have no desire to read it.
We are just pawns in a game played by others. I am not going to argue with other pawns who like me, have no control over what is happening, it's useless.
I am just going to continue to do my job, with a positive attitude, courtesy, respect and professionalism, regardless of what happens.

In the meantime, we should all make sure that the people we selected at our Unions to defend our interests are trusted and respected by our respective groups, to that we support them the day that they ask to sign on the dotted line.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Daniel Cooper
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:38 am
Location: Unknown

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Daniel Cooper » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:22 am

Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:30 am
September
Is there a date set yet? That makes it hard to plan for the big upcoming equipment bid at AC. For the company and the pilots. I don't know if it's better to assume it's going to pass or not. Everyone seems so sure it will despite major shareholders being against it and the other higher offer.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “Air Transat”