DOH merge.

[altiplano]

Everyone's different it's ok if you want to be just a number in a big company, I understand some want the anonymity. I like the fact that they know who I am, they don't know me because of a bad reputation, they know almost everyone. It's the same thing with the union they know almost all their members. I think that it's a more human touch. To each their own, there is not a good or bad way, just personal preferences and I prefer the Transat way.

How does that affect seniority list integration?

[tintin42]

Some of you guys seems to think that Air Transat is a second teer company with bad conditions that was about to fall apart. I just want to educate you on some of the good things we have going for us that we're afraid to loose. Air Canada pilots salaries top about 20% higher on the 330 than AT but we are higher on the 320 (we have the same pay scale for both) . However most of the good things at AT are harder to quantify.

My French isn’t what it never was, but it looks like the AT contract distinguishes between wide and narrow body.

Just to put numbers to it for those who haven’t looked. Based on the latest contract for both companies in 2019 which are available publicly: Rounded

AC YR 12 a320 Captain Half Day/Night rate = 219.5/hr plus maybe some Nav pay.
AC YR 12 a330 Captain Half Day/Night rate = 269/hr plus Overseas 12/hr = 281/hr

AT YR 10 a320 captain rate = 203/hr plus 5 for night = half day/night 205.5/hr
AT YR 10 a330 captain rate = 223/hr plus 5 for night = half day/night 225.5/hr

Someone please double check me on this. And I get this is just one factor.

Btd

The narrow body pay is just for B737 and they're both going away soon, The A320 pilots get paid widebody because it's the same position bid for us (320/330) and since we can go to Europe with the LR it's basically the same job. So a A320 top scale at transat is being paid 4$/h more than a AC top scale A320 capt. Our minimum guaranteed is 80h is that the same at AC?

[laserstrike]

Some of you guys seems to think that Air Transat is a second teer company with bad conditions that was about to fall apart. I just want to educate you on some of the good things we have going for us that we're afraid to loose. Air Canada pilots salaries top about 20% higher on the 330 than AT but we are higher on the 320 (we have the same pay scale for both) . However most of the good things at AT are harder to quantify.

My French isn’t what it never was, but it looks like the AT contract distinguishes between wide and narrow body.

Just to put numbers to it for those who haven’t looked. Based on the latest contract for both companies in 2019 which are available publicly: Rounded

AC YR 12 a320 Captain Half Day/Night rate = 219.5/hr plus maybe some Nav pay.
AC YR 12 a330 Captain Half Day/Night rate = 269/hr plus Overseas 12/hr = 281/hr

AT YR 10 a320 captain rate = 203/hr plus 5 for night = half day/night 205.5/hr
AT YR 10 a330 captain rate = 223/hr plus 5 for night = half day/night 225.5/hr

Someone please double check me on this. And I get this is just one factor.

Btd

The narrow body pay is just for B737 and they're both going away soon, The A320 pilots get paid widebody because it's the same position bid for us (320/330) and since we can go to Europe with the LR it's basically the same job. So a A320 top scale at transat is being paid 4$/h more than a AC top scale A320 capt. Our minimum guaranteed is 80h is that the same at AC?

How many years of service do you get from the right to the left seat?

[tintin42]

Everyone's different it's ok if you want to be just a number in a big company, I understand some want the anonymity. I like the fact that they know who I am, they don't know me because of a bad reputation, they know almost everyone. It's the same thing with the union they know almost all their members. I think that it's a more human touch. To each their own, there is not a good or bad way, just personal preferences and I prefer the Transat way.

How does that affect seniority list integration?

How does pay affect the seniority list? It's just part of the big package of pros and cons of each company and something we would loose in case of a merge.


How many years of service do you get from the right to the left seat?
[/quote]

Just one year of service get accounted for new captain pay, so you start at year 2. Right now the upgrade time is 5-6 years so it takes 14-15 years to reach top scale compared to 12 at AC. I don't know which one is the best when you consider that for the first 4 years you make more money at AT and you need more money in the beginning of your career or the probably bigger overall sum of the 14 years. Like I said it's not perfect, but not as terrible as some of you make it seems.

On that note I'll let you guys hype yourself up on the subject and try to stop commenting. There's enough uncertainty on that subject that I don't want to add the fact that it might be a bad working environment. That's the one of the most important point, it's fun to work at Transat and some of you don't seem to think about the fun factor, just the money. I think it's way more important to be happy than to make more money. I would love to fly with some of my good friends at AC, but I really hope the majority of the pilots there see us as equal.

[BTD]

Some of you guys seems to think that Air Transat is a second teer company with bad conditions that was about to fall apart. I just want to educate you on some of the good things we have going for us that we're afraid to loose. Air Canada pilots salaries top about 20% higher on the 330 than AT but we are higher on the 320 (we have the same pay scale for both) . However most of the good things at AT are harder to quantify.

My French isn’t what it never was, but it looks like the AT contract distinguishes between wide and narrow body.

Just to put numbers to it for those who haven’t looked. Based on the latest contract for both companies in 2019 which are available publicly: Rounded

AC YR 12 a320 Captain Half Day/Night rate = 219.5/hr plus maybe some Nav pay.
AC YR 12 a330 Captain Half Day/Night rate = 269/hr plus Overseas 12/hr = 281/hr

AT YR 10 a320 captain rate = 203/hr plus 5 for night = half day/night 205.5/hr
AT YR 10 a330 captain rate = 223/hr plus 5 for night = half day/night 225.5/hr

Someone please double check me on this. And I get this is just one factor.

Btd

The narrow body pay is just for B737 and they're both going away soon, The A320 pilots get paid widebody because it's the same position bid for us (320/330) and since we can go to Europe with the LR it's basically the same job. So a A320 top scale at transat is being paid 4$/h more than a AC top scale A320 capt. Our minimum guaranteed is 80h is that the same at AC?

Thanks for filling in the blanks.

It’s just a discussion, and anything anyone can add is good info. I don’t think anyone has really put down working for AT. We are all just curious how this will go down if it does go through. I’m hopeful that we don’t screw it up.

[av8ts]

Air Canada is hiring close to 600 people a year at BOTL and many of them are just as experienced as the Transat pilots, or more.

Exactly.

I think your going to be very disappointed by the arbitrator

[altiplano]

Everyone's different it's ok if you want to be just a number in a big company, I understand some want the anonymity. I like the fact that they know who I am, they don't know me because of a bad reputation, they know almost everyone. It's the same thing with the union they know almost all their members. I think that it's a more human touch. To each their own, there is not a good or bad way, just personal preferences and I prefer the Transat way.

How does that affect seniority list integration?

How does pay affect the seniority list? It's just part of the big package of pros and cons of each company and something we would loose in case of a merge.

I think you should present "fun-factor" and " human touch" as your primary seniority weighting provisions when you get in front of an arbitrator.

[TSAM]

.

[altiplano]

How does pay affect the seniority list? It's just part of the big package of pros and cons of each company and something we would loose in case of a merge.

I think you should present "fun-factor" and " human touch" as your primary seniority weighting provisions when you get in front of an arbitrator.

I don't think that's what tintin is getting at, and would be silly to bring up at arby's. Just stating (which I believe this was mentioned earlier in the thread), about the sacrifices being made from the TS side, just as there'll be some from the AC side. There's a reason we came and stay at TS, and most of us rather not see this merger happen either. In the end if this does go through, we just want a fair deal and to be treated fairly.

And, is it just me or does it feel like this thread is going in circles?

I was responding to that as a "big package" item he mentions on a SLI discussion.

I guess it wasn't related to SLI though.

I think everyone wants a fair deal. Ratio or DOH or BOTL aren't it though. Managing expectations...

[Dockjock]

I would not say it is fun to work at Air Canada, as a pilot. It can be fun, at times, but for the most part it is a grind. We work very, very hard and I think this is why many focus on the money. That said, I have my life away from work and wouldn’t really want the 2,3,4-day layovers away from my family that make it fun at work. AC pilots’ CBA is part of the reason AC is very profitable; it is a hometown discount. AC pilots want to live in Canada and our collective unwillingness (and inability, due to lack of really comparable airlines) to “walk away” is reflected in our WAWCON. Regardless, I hope TS’ influence as it is incorporated into AC’s culture, will be able to bring some of that balance here. As I said, we grind. Our vacation entitlement is small, and worthless. Our schedules come out mere days before the block month starts. Reserve rules are so old they are written on stone tablets. There are going to be changes on that front soon anyway, by law, but if we can collectively use this opportunity to carry forward some of the better aspects of TS, or at least become aware of them in advance of the next opportunity to make those changes, it will be for the better.
I’m personally not thrilled by the prospect of a merger but I understand it is somewhat of a defensive move rather than the perfect fit that was pursued as a blue sky idea. I really, really hope we can get the least bad outcome and then move forward such that we’re not still talking about it 10 yrs from now.

[GATRKGA]

I would not say it is fun to work at Air Canada, as a pilot. It can be fun, at times, but for the most part it is a grind. We work very, very hard and I think this is why many focus on the money. That said, I have my life away from work and wouldn’t really want the 2,3,4-day layovers away from my family that make it fun at work. AC pilots’ CBA is part of the reason AC is very profitable; it is a hometown discount. AC pilots want to live in Canada and our collective unwillingness (and inability, due to lack of really comparable airlines) to “walk away” is reflected in our WAWCON. Regardless, I hope TS’ influence as it is incorporated into AC’s culture, will be able to bring some of that balance here. As I said, we grind. Our vacation entitlement is small, and worthless. Our schedules come out mere days before the block month starts. Reserve rules are so old they are written on stone tablets. There are going to be changes on that front soon anyway, by law, but if we can collectively use this opportunity to carry forward some of the better aspects of TS, or at least become aware of them in advance of the next opportunity to make those changes, it will be for the better.
I’m personally not thrilled by the prospect of a merger but I understand it is somewhat of a defensive move rather than the perfect fit that was pursued as a blue sky idea. I really, really hope we can get the least bad outcome and then move forward such that we’re not still talking about it 10 yrs from now.

Perfect post. Thanks for truly being authentic.

[Stu Pidasso]

The GGN and Jazz merge isn't even close to the same thing. The contract as a whole, was to include 350+ pilots leaving to mainline before the end of the year and effectively seniority wasn't effected. GGN has something like 200 pilots.

Without the GGN pilots there wouldn't have been the 60/90% flow deal. What the AT pilots coming over brings is just more bodies integrating with zero offset of people leaving to go to the "next step." It's working so far the last few AC classes have been majority Jazz.

Literally no Jr Jazz pilot was hurt. Everyone moved up the list significantly, lots of Jr Captains gone and going to mainline, lots of new upgrades... Hundreds.

There was also the argument that both were doing exactly the same flying for the same company and both ALPA carriers.

It's not comparable.

The junior Jazz PIlot took 200 Pilots senior to them and they were NOT hurt - dream on. Secondly the fact that two merging Airlines belong to the same Association means nothing. If both AC and Transat were ALPA nothing would change, any merger language in the collective agreement isn't worth the paper it is written on. ALPA Jazz gave the Georgian PIlots a windfall gift, they were a train wreck of an Airline that should have lost their OC.

[atphat]

I would not say it is fun to work at Air Canada, as a pilot. It can be fun, at times, but for the most part it is a grind. We work very, very hard and I think this is why many focus on the money. That said, I have my life away from work and wouldn’t really want the 2,3,4-day layovers away from my family that make it fun at work. AC pilots’ CBA is part of the reason AC is very profitable; it is a hometown discount. AC pilots want to live in Canada and our collective unwillingness (and inability, due to lack of really comparable airlines) to “walk away” is reflected in our WAWCON. Regardless, I hope TS’ influence as it is incorporated into AC’s culture, will be able to bring some of that balance here. As I said, we grind. Our vacation entitlement is small, and worthless. Our schedules come out mere days before the block month starts. Reserve rules are so old they are written on stone tablets. There are going to be changes on that front soon anyway, by law, but if we can collectively use this opportunity to carry forward some of the better aspects of TS, or at least become aware of them in advance of the next opportunity to make those changes, it will be for the better.
I’m personally not thrilled by the prospect of a merger but I understand it is somewhat of a defensive move rather than the perfect fit that was pursued as a blue sky idea. I really, really hope we can get the least bad outcome and then move forward such that we’re not still talking about it 10 yrs from now.

Perfect post. Thanks for truly being authentic.

Lol. You mean you actually have to work for your money??

I work between 14 - 16 days a month for over 200 a year. Relatively soon I’ll work 12 - 14 days a month for over 300.

I guess it’s relative. Sure I focus on the money cause it’s the best part of my job. I don’t really consider work “fun” but I never did. Cause you know.....it’s work.

[Victory]

Yeah but is a day off really a day off if you spend it recovering from your work days?

[Fanblade]

Yeah but is a day off really a day off if you spend it recovering from your work days?

Hey Victory we actually agree on something. I group them together too.

It’s why I’d much rather work more and have less days feeling dumb tired. But that’s just me and why personally, blemishes and all, I prefer the variety AC provides.

[schnitzel2k3]

I would not say it is fun to work at Air Canada, as a pilot. It can be fun, at times, but for the most part it is a grind. We work very, very hard and I think this is why many focus on the money. That said, I have my life away from work and wouldn’t really want the 2,3,4-day layovers away from my family that make it fun at work. AC pilots’ CBA is part of the reason AC is very profitable; it is a hometown discount. AC pilots want to live in Canada and our collective unwillingness (and inability, due to lack of really comparable airlines) to “walk away” is reflected in our WAWCON. Regardless, I hope TS’ influence as it is incorporated into AC’s culture, will be able to bring some of that balance here. As I said, we grind. Our vacation entitlement is small, and worthless. Our schedules come out mere days before the block month starts. Reserve rules are so old they are written on stone tablets. There are going to be changes on that front soon anyway, by law, but if we can collectively use this opportunity to carry forward some of the better aspects of TS, or at least become aware of them in advance of the next opportunity to make those changes, it will be for the better.
I’m personally not thrilled by the prospect of a merger but I understand it is somewhat of a defensive move rather than the perfect fit that was pursued as a blue sky idea. I really, really hope we can get the least bad outcome and then move forward such that we’re not still talking about it 10 yrs from now.

This has always been a concern for me amongst many regarding AC and why I've remained firmly on the sidelines. I grew up believing that AC was the be-all-end-all of Canadian aviation (thanks to stubborn family in the game - but that would also be pot calling the kettle...). The more you listen, the more you realize it's just another unionized shift job, with pilots and their abacus' comparing hourlys and pensions.

As an outsider, I loved traveling on TS with my family. They've always taken good care of us. My spouse loved her time there, but family took precedent. I am a little sad to hear TS potentially losing it's identity if this merger goes through.

So that being said - and sorry to all the TS pilots who were PFO'd from AC and see this as a way to get in - but I hope this deal falls through and TS remains independent and profitable.

Should that not happen, good luck to all the TS employees, it sounds like there are many at big red who would welcome you happily and I hope everyone gets an even and fair deal if and when the time comes.

S.

[snowcone]

Will Transat pilots have DOH with realestate agents when they are bought out by a realestate company?

[ToolShed]

Will Transat pilots have DOH with realestate agents when they are bought out by a realestate company?

Maybe they’ll get to wear the old Century 21 yellow jackets from the 80’s now!

[FL320]

Will Transat pilots have DOH with realestate agents when they are bought out by a realestate company?

Maybe they’ll get to wear the old Century 21 yellow jackets from the 80’s now!

The generation Z kind of joke?

[schnitzel2k3]

Will Transat pilots have DOH with realestate agents when they are bought out by a realestate company?

Maybe they’ll get to wear the old Century 21 yellow jackets from the 80’s now!

The generation Z kind of joke?

Gen X. Gen Z was still 20 years to being born.