Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

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sanjet
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by sanjet »

Lots of immaturity here. I work for AC, i may get my lay off notice as well in the coming months. If so, it would be my 3rd layoff in this industry,
I know a few pilots at transat and they are A+. To say poor career choice is brutal on your part fl280, should retract your statement nor does it look professional.

AC was in CCAA just over a 15 years ago and transat managed their way out without going into CCAA.

Lets all stay grounded, yes we all have our opinions on this merge but it doesnt matter nor is it any of our choice. Whatever happens, move on.

The fact is CR will have to manage this crisis or we will reenter CCAA within months again. Thats what a CEO is paid for. He is also 10 steps ahead of anyone else.
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727driver
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by 727driver »

160 I suggest you tone it down and be careful about casting disparaging remarks about drunk pilots and crashed airbus’. You guys have your share of genius aviators too that have managed to slip through the cracks or did your forget about the hero Capt Piche who ran out fuel because he couldn’t identify a fuel leak and wouldn’t listen to the FO when it was painfully obvious, or the winners that were busted at the gate in Glasgow trying to operate a flight home drunk. Stones and glass houses don’t mix well. Let’s not forget that the one of the purposes why Rouge was created was to cripple Transat not to acquire it. The acquisition of Transat by AC was purely a defensive move to keep it out of the hands of Onex. Air Canada purchasing Transat was not priority before the Onex deal took place and AC certainly wasn’t looking for Transat pilots I can assure you of that. The airline division of the company has zero value(words from your own management btw) and only exists as a cost and capacity management tool. The only assets at Air Transat are the the hangars and the 310s(excluding leased engines) and they are only worth their weight in scrap. If Calin could acquire the operation minus the flight ops department that would be his preference. He among anyone knows how complicated and how much of or headache the merging of pilot seniority lists would be. He would sooner pick up the infrastructure that runs the tour operation and leave the rest. Air Canada certainly doesn’t need the Air Transat fins or the crews right now when Air Canada has a lot of extra capacity lying around. I wouldn’t surprise me if Transat starts returning leased 330’s, keeps the Neo to conserve cash and just buys space on Air Canada because they can’t fill their own 330s this summer and Air Canada has extra capacity as they wait to see IF the deal closes.
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Fanblade
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Fanblade »

TD sponsored a conference call to investors a few days ago. Rousseau stated this recovery will be u shaped. Not vshaped like after SARS

He also stated AC had 2.4 Billion in capital expenditures planned for 2020. 1.2 B was for 737/220 aircraft still being spent. The remaining 1.2 B in planned expenditures have been reduced by several hundred million. No explanation of how.
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goldeneagle
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by goldeneagle »

ayseven wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:50 am
I have always had the belief that BC for example, goes out of its way to step on their own, in favour of easy money from people from elsewhere (I am talking about other provinces, not just other nationalities).
Lifelong BC resident. I had the unfortunate experience of doing a 6 month stint in YUL in the bad old days when I still flew for a living. My impression of Quebec, bunch of whining folks always got hand out for federal money while the roads are falling apart to the point of unsafe, bridges are crumbling, stadiums crumbling and all that federal money just being funneled into the pockets of corrupt politicians and thier friends, its sure not being spent on the decaying infrastructure.
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Jumbo744
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Jumbo744 »

It is childish for pilots to attack each other just because they don't work at the same airline. Anyone who has gone through a pilot selection in the Middle East or Asia knows that pilot selection and interviews in Canada are a joke. We all are at our respective employers because we were at the right time and right place to catch an opportunity. Good for you if you are happy at AC or Transat, but it doesn't make you special or superior.
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160tonoaha
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by 160tonoaha »

727driver wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:15 am
160 I suggest you tone it down and be careful about casting disparaging remarks about drunk pilots and crashed airbus’. You guys have your share of genius aviators too that have managed to slip through the cracks or did your forget about the hero Capt Piche who ran out fuel because he couldn’t identify a fuel leak and wouldn’t listen to the FO when it was painfully obvious, or the winners that were busted at the gate in Glasgow trying to operate a flight home drunk. Stones and glass houses don’t mix well. Let’s not forget that the one of the purposes why Rouge was created was to cripple Transat not to acquire it. The acquisition of Transat by AC was purely a defensive move to keep it out of the hands of Onex. Air Canada purchasing Transat was not priority before the Onex deal took place and AC certainly wasn’t looking for Transat pilots I can assure you of that. The airline division of the company has zero value(words from your own management btw) and only exists as a cost and capacity management tool. The only assets at Air Transat are the the hangars and the 310s(excluding leased engines) and they are only worth their weight in scrap. If Calin could acquire the operation minus the flight ops department that would be his preference. He among anyone knows how complicated and how much of or headache the merging of pilot seniority lists would be. He would sooner pick up the infrastructure that runs the tour operation and leave the rest. Air Canada certainly doesn’t need the Air Transat fins or the crews right now when Air Canada has a lot of extra capacity lying around. I wouldn’t surprise me if Transat starts returning leased 330’s, keeps the Neo to conserve cash and just buys space on Air Canada because they can’t fill their own 330s this summer and Air Canada has extra capacity as they wait to see IF the deal closes.
I suggest you direct your attention at Fl280 instead of asking someone just stating facts to “tone it down”. As for shining light on the winners at each company, I was simply stating that one isn’t a superior career choice over the other as is evident by the strike of geniuses that each company clearly employs. Fl280 included. Everyone is coming out of this with bloody hands one way or another. So can we settle that AC or Transat, we are all kind of fucked regardless of our choices?

As for CR’s choice to buy transat, you probably aren’t wrong in your hypothesis. But the question still isn’t why AC pilots have to pay for the poor choices of Transat pilots, the question should still be directed at AC’s execs for the decisions they’ve made and why AC pilots have to “suffer” ...

And yep, the middle eastern or Asian airlines know how to hire pilots, it’s why they are superior too... as if there are no idiots in those outfits at all. Just turn to half the CAE instructors and you’ll see that the majority are nothing special, and could use a lesson or two on superiority complex.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by altiplano »

Jumbo744 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:50 am
It is childish for pilots to attack each other just because they don't work at the same airline.
Should have just left it at that...

I agree 100%
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160tonoaha
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by 160tonoaha »

altiplano wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:06 am
Jumbo744 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:50 am
It is childish for pilots to attack each other just because they don't work at the same airline.
Should have just left it at that...

I agree 100%
Lol, says an instigator himself.
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Jumbo744
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Jumbo744 »

I wasn't trying to say that pilots in the middle east or asia are superior....in no way at all. But you have to recognize that their whole process is much more intense and last days going through psychometric tests, sims, interviews, group exercises. Getting a job in Canada has more to do with having a good internal reference and being able to answer questions like 'tell me about a time where you provided great customer service'. So no, you have no reasons to feel superior flying for air canada, transat, or you name it.
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tsgas
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by tsgas »

sanjet wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:58 pm
Lots of immaturity here. I work for AC, i may get my lay off notice as well in the coming months. If so, it would be my 3rd layoff in this industry,
I know a few pilots at transat and they are A+. To say poor career choice is brutal on your part fl280, should retract your statement nor does it look professional.

AC was in CCAA just over a 15 years ago and transat managed their way out without going into CCAA.

Lets all stay grounded, yes we all have our opinions on this merge but it doesnt matter nor is it any of our choice. Whatever happens, move on.

The fact is CR will have to manage this crisis or we will reenter CCAA within months again. Thats what a CEO is paid for. He is also 10 steps ahead of anyone else.
It's not so much about immaturity as it is about raw emotions. People are rightfully afraid and are acting out a lot of pent up frustrations and their sate of helplessness. Pilots are used to being in control and for the time being we have no control of our careers or the outcome of the pandemic.

AC was forced into CCAA because it was also forced into the CP merger. TRZ was saved by the tour side of the company and not the airline. TRZ also had money injected by the QC unions. So both companies had, and will have their share of problems, so life goes on and let's try at least to get along.
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dialdriver
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by dialdriver »

tsgas wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:13 am
AC was forced into CCAA because it was also forced into the CP merger.
Do you have anything to support that statement?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_ ... a_takeover

On August 20, 1999, Air Canada proposed a financial offer to Canadian Airlines which would see Canadian's International routes and airport slots sold to Air Canada for an undisclosed amount. Canadian Airlines would be relegated to be a regional carrier providing a feeder network to Air Canada. This offer was rejected.

Four days later, on August 24, 1999, Onex Corporation announced a takeover bid for Canadian Airlines, backed by American Airlines parent company AMR Corporation, consisting of $1.8B in cash and the assumption of $3.9B in debt. Canadian Airlines announced that it would support this and recommend acceptance from its shareholders. Air Canada rejected the offer. On August 31, 1999, Air Canada adopted a poison pill aimed at thwarting any takeover bid.

It was later (Sep 24, 1999) revealed by Kevin Benson that merger talks had occurred between Canadian Airlines and Air Canada in early 1999 with Air Canada abandoning the talks.

On October 19, 1999, Air Canada, backed by Star Alliance partners Lufthansa Airlines, United Airlines and CIBC announced a $930M counter bid to the Onex offer. Air Canada offered $92M for Canadian Airlines and committed to running it as a separate company. On November 2, Air Canada increased its offer to $16 per share to buy back 36.4 percent of the airline.

On November 5, 1999, a Quebec judge ruled that the Onex takeover was illegal, breaking the law that stipulates that no more than 10 percent of the company can be controlled by a single shareholder. Onex subsequently withdrew its offer and Air Canada stated it would proceed with the takeover of Canadian Airlines. On December 4, the board of directors at Canadian Airlines recommended the $92M offer from Air Canada to the shareholders. The offer from Air Canada originally expired at 5pm on December 7, 1999, but Air Canada extended their offer until December 23, 1999. Air Canada officially took control of Canadian Airlines, pending government approval, on December 8, 1999. The Federal Competition Bureau cleared the way for the takeover on December 21, 1999 and Canadian Airlines officially became a subsidiary of Air Canada on December 23, 1999.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by altiplano »

160tonoaha wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:11 am
altiplano wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:06 am
Jumbo744 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:50 am
It is childish for pilots to attack each other just because they don't work at the same airline.
Should have just left it at that...

I agree 100%
Lol, says an instigator himself.
That's not true.

Some people don't like the way I break something down, and for suggesting that the reason for the TRZ depressed stock price with an $18/share deal pending was for uncertainty in the market about whether the deal would go through. And that uncertainty was hard, I get that it's a rollercoaster.

But I have not insulted any Transat Pilots or made it personal.

In fact I have said that I think Transat Pilots are fine Pilots and if the circumstances were different I could have happily ended up there too.

I think attacking each other personally is childish.

This is an industry forum and I think discussing deals and speculating on the future is reasonable.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by altiplano »

Jumbo744 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:34 am
I wasn't trying to say that pilots in the middle east or asia are superior....in no way at all. But you have to recognize that their whole process is much more intense and last days going through psychometric tests, sims, interviews, group exercises. Getting a job in Canada has more to do with having a good internal reference and being able to answer questions like 'tell me about a time where you provided great customer service'. So no, you have no reasons to feel superior flying for air canada, transat, or you name it.
I get it... and most definitely, some selection processes are over the top... and in the end we all end up flying our lines and doing our jobs.
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160tonoaha
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by 160tonoaha »

Okay, you guys actually responded without sounding like senseless ass holes. So I’ll start getting along.

I do agree with your last post jumbo and altiplano.

Can we be friends now and put down our differences?

Cheers

160
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by altiplano »

I am happy to put aside differences.

But in the past it was you that insulted me, and here you still sink one more in with "senseless ass holes" , but as long as you're not going to start along that line again I think we'll be fine.
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160tonoaha
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by 160tonoaha »

altiplano wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:40 am
I am happy to put aside differences.

But in the past it was you that insulted me, and here you still sink one more in with "senseless ass holes" , but as long as you're not going to start along that line again I think we'll be fine.

Okay, hand shake. Don’t leave me hanging.
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Jumbo744
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Jumbo744 »

Haha no animosity on my side. This is avcanada.

We can be friends if you help me decide what to do with my TRZ shares. I bought them at 8$ 2 weeks ago. Whatever I do the market always does the opposite.
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FL-280
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by FL-280 »

I rather my seniority than your friendship... sorry. Just reality
For the shares, you are slightly up. I would sell them, I believe there are other opportunities on the stock market to hold long term with entry an point that are very low.
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DanWEC
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by DanWEC »

Jumbo744 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:08 am
What to do with my TRZ shares. I bought them at 8$ 2 weeks ago. Whatever I do the market always does the opposite.
I see trz as a questionable buy. You might get over 100% return but it's not guaranteed. Even if it's 90% certain it's still a risk, and without the purchase could go down to 5 or less.... and stay there. In the current climate there are plenty of stocks that are all but guaranteed to recoup their value when the market returns, so it's tough to justify any risk on a trade right now. I personally just shoved almost everything I have into AC and just a fun chunk into trz.
I fully expect AC to go back up to $40+ within the year and I bought at $16ish. At least I hope!
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ayseven
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by ayseven »

I am not an airline pilot. I wanted to be one. I still do (ha ha ha). But alas, I do know other things, as well as how to fly airplanes. Take this advice: do not sell anything, unless it is way up. Anything you buy is no different than going to the casino and betting on red 7. Basically doing nothing is the thing to do here.
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Localizer »

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ayseven
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by ayseven »

Pardon? You can invest however you want. Shares go up and down, but doing nothing is good advice right now. I am pretty sure of that.
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Localizer »

Pardon? You can invest however you want. Shares go up and down, but doing nothing is good advice right now. I am pretty sure of that.
It wasn't directed at your post .. just this thread in general.
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ayseven
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by ayseven »

Sorry - cabin fever getting the best of people right now - and sticking my oar in is just what I do best.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

I posted this a few days ago and the Mods deleted it, I have no idea why. Here is a second go at it. If this requires deletion again, please PM me and let me know why....

Several AC pilots, or people who claim to be (you never know with aliases) post doomsday scenarios here about TSC pilots stealing their jobs.

I came up with a doomsday scenario of my own, where TSC pilots are the ones who get shafted big time:

All TSC employees were laid off, our airline is grounded. Imagine that Air Canada/Rouge decides the time is ripe to get rid of all its older aircraft. There are 40 air frames which are older than 25 years in the Air Canad/Rouge Fleet. They are all likely to have upwards of 100,000 hours. I know some aircraft have more than 125,000 hours.

Air Transat, without the 6 A310s which were retired yesterday, is left with 40 airframes. 20 A330, 15 A321s and 5 B737s, the oldest of which is 20 years old.

Imagine that Air Canada decides to go through with the purchases of TSC (at whatever price), but right after recalling all its furloughed crew-members and merging all Rouge assets back into mainline, -40 aircraft.
Air Canada and Transat being considered a single employer, Air Transat will begin flying again, replacing what Rouge and Transat did together before, but with Air Canada/Rouge employees in Transat’s 40 aircraft (instead of the combined fleet of Rouge and Transat)

Air Transat employees will remained furloughed until the company expands again.

Air Canada has qualified pilots, flight attendants and mechanics for all the Transat fleet. The absorption would be a piece of cake.....

This is just to show all of you that the pendulum can swing either way and throwing rocks at each other will not change a thing.
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