Air Canada and Transat announce Updated Purchase Price at $5 per share

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Johnny767
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Johnny767 »

For any of us to sit at a keyboard and try and predict a Seniority Integration, is a waste of bandwidth. Having been through more than my share, Arbitrators have been known to blind side you. The AC list is definitely NOT DOH, even though the last merger was 20 years ago. There are still plenty of discounted (some severely) ex-Canadi>n Pilots. On the "likes to likes" argument the Canadi>n/AC merger had far more in common than AC/Transat.

To take the number one Transat Pilot and make him (or her) a T7 or 87 Captain would be close to a 100% pay raise (pre-covid.) Not sure who would think that is remotely fair? My W.A.G. is a ratio and if I was the Arbitrator put the number one Transat Pilot somewhere with the junior Rouge 767 Captain.

That is "likes with likes," still a substantial pay raise for the Transat Pilot.

Oh....Rudder, the CRA Pilots never brought DOH for seniority, only pass travel.

Cheers
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TFTMB heavy
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by TFTMB heavy »

Johnny767 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:51 am For any of us to sit at a keyboard and try and predict a Seniority Integration, is a waste of bandwidth. Having been through more than my share, Arbitrators have been known to blind side you. The AC list is definitely NOT DOH, even though the last merger was 20 years ago. There are still plenty of discounted (some severely) ex-Canadi>n Pilots. On the "likes to likes" argument the Canadi>n/AC merger had far more in common than AC/Transat.

To take the number one Transat Pilot and make him (or her) a T7 or 87 Captain would be close to a 100% pay raise (pre-covid.) Not sure who would think that is remotely fair? My W.A.G. is a ratio and if I was the Arbitrator put the number one Transat Pilot somewhere with the junior Rouge 767 Captain.

That is "likes with likes," still a substantial pay raise for the Transat Pilot.

Oh....Rudder, the CRA Pilots never brought DOH for seniority, only pass travel.

Cheers
TS widebody rate at the top of the scale is $242 right now, not exactly the increase you are suggesting to go to a 777 or 787. I'm not saying the number 1 from TS needs to go 777 or 787 but your suggestion to put a pilot with 30 years at TS with the jr Rouge Captains is not reasonable.

I do agree this will not get resolved on Avcanada.
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Johnny767
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Johnny767 »

Thanks for setting the record straight. I was told top pay was around 200K/year. Assuming you are using hourly rate, that makes the T7 roughly a 70% pay raise.

Rough is the key word!

In Arbitrator speak, that is a "Windfall Gain." Still think that puts you (financially) in with the Rouge 767 seniority band.

Best of luck to all of us and Happy Thanksgiving.
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TFTMB heavy
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by TFTMB heavy »

Johnny767 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:06 am Thanks for setting the record straight. I was told top pay was around 200K/year. Assuming you are using hourly rate, that makes the T7 roughly a 70% pay raise.

Rough is the key word!

In Arbitrator speak, that is a "Windfall Gain." Still think that puts you (financially) in with the Rouge 767 seniority band.

Best of luck to all of us and Happy Thanksgiving.
It's 232k annually at TS. So even if a top scale 777 pilot flew all night hours he ends up at 288k by my math, not a 70% increase, more like 25% range. Half day half night you're in the 18% range.

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.
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Dry Guy
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Dry Guy »

Lol even the junior WBCA's are sweating
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Latitude
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Latitude »

RRJetPilot wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:17 am Well I HIGHLY doubt ONEX would be looking to touch anything airline related with a 100 foot pole. The made a huge mistake with the WJ purchase and will not make a bigger mistake again. I think ONEX and the board are looking deeply on how to unload WJ with losing the least amount of money. After this pandemic there will be no investment in Aviation for a period of 5-10 years.
I think Onex purchasing Transat would help them compete against AC and develop new markets since Transat is strong where WS isnt (flights out of YUL, YQB, transatlantic flights). 200m$ for Onex is pocket change and that would boost WS no doubt about it. CR knows it and I'm sure they wont let Onex purchase Transat if they make an offer... interesting months ahead.
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flyinhigh
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by flyinhigh »

Will not be DOH, Will not be bottom of the list.

It will be a form of ratio, which will still need to be determined. If we can all agree on that, this will be much less painful
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tsgas
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by tsgas »

The heading should be changed to " Air Canada and Transat announce Decreased Purchase Price to $ 5 per share ".
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by altiplano »

flyinhigh wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:26 am Will not be DOH, Will not be bottom of the list.

It will be a form of ratio, which will still need to be determined. If we can all agree on that, this will be much less painful
That is what it will be. Starting point will have to be determined, I have no doubt TS will want top of the list start point, AC will probably want a wage comparable start point. The arbitrator will apply a few corrections, find somewhere in between and everyone will say they got screwed... a few fences/freezes for a period of time...

But let's see the deal go through first. I wonder if Group Mach is still out there? 6$ is a steal from what they had in mind before...
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tsgas
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by tsgas »

$6.00 isn't a steal at all . If it was such a great price the stock market would reflect it.
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Fanblade
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Fanblade »

I think the single most important piece of information we just learned is being overlooked.

AC has spoken clearly on their intentions. Something we have been waiting for. They could have walked. They didn’t. They wanted a better price of course, but they still want the acquisition.

The pandemic has not changed AC’s desire to purchase Transat.
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aerodude
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by aerodude »

Fanblade wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:36 am I think the single most important piece of information we just learned is being overlooked.

AC has spoken clearly on their intentions. Something we have been waiting for. They could have walked. They didn’t. They wanted a better price of course, but they still want the acquisition.

The pandemic has not changed AC’s desire to purchase Transat.
The desire has not changed but I can guarantee AC will walk away if another firm offers 6$/share or higher. It is a real possibility.
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telex
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by telex »

aerodude wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:10 am
Fanblade wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:36 am I think the single most important piece of information we just learned is being overlooked.

AC has spoken clearly on their intentions. Something we have been waiting for. They could have walked. They didn’t. They wanted a better price of course, but they still want the acquisition.

The pandemic has not changed AC’s desire to purchase Transat.
The desire has not changed but I can guarantee AC will walk away if another firm offers 6$/share or higher. It is a real possibility.
So you are guaranteeing a possibility?
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Daniel Cooper »

Does anyone know the rough breakdown of how many pilots Transat has based each in Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver?
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aerodude
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by aerodude »

telex wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:13 am So you are guaranteeing a possibility?
The probability of someone bidding for TRZ is there, the guarantee is AC walking away if that probability occurs. There is a real political scenario where a Quebec based firm comes to the rescue and bids.

I’ve always said this transaction was over priced with this crisis. This was expected.

Still 2 months away from shareholder vote, anything can happen boys and girls, specially in 2020!
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Last edited by aerodude on Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
milhouse
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by milhouse »

aerodude wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:18 am
telex wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:13 am So you are guaranteeing a possibility?
The probability of someone bidding for TRZ is there, the guarantee is AC walking away if that probability occurs. There is a real political scenario where a Quebec based firm bids.

I’ve always said this transaction was over priced with this crisis. This was expected.
Or they are just using the same strategy they used the first time around, offer the lowest possible price as a starting point, and then raise it if they have to. No point in paying more than you need to. I seriously doubt 5 bucks is their max ceiling.
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aerodude
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by aerodude »

milhouse wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:30 am Or they are just using the same strategy they used the first time around, offer the lowest possible price as a starting point, and then raise it if they have to. No point in paying more than you need to. I seriously doubt 5 bucks is their max ceiling.
Maybe, but the CEO has a fiduciary responsibility towards AC shareholders.

The acquisition before the crisis was for the brand and the Atlantic market. The Atlantic market is gone, they are just paying for the brand now. Don’t get me wrong, TRZ is an amazing tour operator but that brand is only worth so much.
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FL320
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by FL320 »

Forget Groupe Mach...they’re losing tons of money with the non renewal of rents downtown Montreal.
Eustache wants to sell to AC only and; AC want Transat.
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Last edited by FL320 on Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
aerodude
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by aerodude »

FL320 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:39 am Forget Groupe Mach...they’re losing tons of money with the non renewal of rents downtown Montreal.
Eustache wants to sell to AC only and; AC want Transat.
Of course, but shareholders have the voting power, they will call the shots.
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FL320
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by FL320 »

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