If only there was another buyer to "rescue" Transat.. Oh wait.
Thats assuming AC receives no aid from the government. If they do the perception will be the government sent aid to Air Canada to be used to acquire a competitor to the detriment of the Canadian public. Tax payer money to pay off shareholders of a company.. Maybe if they just didnt have the fallout from CEWS being used to pay dividends. The government is on the look out now.
It would be better for everyone if the government just gave Transat(the COMPANY and not its shareholders) the $500 million in aid. Giving Air Canada extra compensation to take over transat which will just go to compensate shareholders of Transat is pointless.
Either way Transat will get its rescue, whether it be Air Canada or the government. Keeping them separate is in the best interest of the public as well as the employees of both companies.
This buy out was never about doing what's best for the public or the employees. And they felt confident they could get the approvals before the pandemic and beforeTransat was in any trouble. Should be even easier now. I'm just telling you how the government is gonna sell it. You don't have to believe it, just wait a couple of months and see.
Ok, but what is the motivation for the government to "sell it" at all costs, voter perception and backlash be damned? The government does not care what Air Canada wants, they will do what is in the publics best interest(and sometimes employees) if nothing else but for their own self interest in securing public support for themselves.
Say if they they offer refunds, or Transat really will liquidate without another buyer, then yes that gives the government incentive to sell a deal to the public. Without that they have no reason to. Unless you are implying that Air Canada has cozy questionable connections with the liberal party? Though im sure if that was the case then AC would have gotten its aid package 6 months ago.
Why was AC so sure they would get approvals before the pandemic hit? Why would the government have approved it then? You seem to think the onus is on the companies to justify why a merger should be allowed to happen when historically it is the opposite. It is a free market and Air Canada and Air Transat do not hold a monopoly on trans atlantic flights, even if you ignore Westjet they still compete with European carriers. The expectation in a democracy is that a deal between 2 private companies will be allowed to happen. The government blocking such a deal for the public good using anti trust laws is the exception, not the rule. If they didn't block First Air and Canadian North, where the merger resulted in an actual monopoly on several routes, they're not going to block this one simply because there's limited Canadian competition. There will be conditions though.
Anyone thinking every pilot won't have a job coming out of this are just pessimistic and trying to feed their own agenda of how they want this panning out.
If say in Feb both companies required around 5000-5500 pilots in their outlook. Now combining concessions as well as general upgauging and reduction of capacity long term planning could be say 4000-4500 pilots. Without the competition capacity will shrink with prices and yields rising. For the employees that will mean less positions to go around. I wouldnt call getting the opportunity to comeback years down the road as a job. And dont forget almost 40,000 people work for both companies, many will permanently loose their jobs without the ability to be called back. They matter too.
While you are right about total employment loss, pilots will be fine. We follow where the flying goes. The flying won’t disappear.
It will be slow for a bit, but every pilot has a position waiting for them in the next year or max 2.
It really only are the last 100 pilots at ts who won’t have a position in the beginning. But in a 10 year recall structure, they’ll be in the left seat in that time frame at AC.
Quote this post in 2026 or 2027. I get to tell you that I told you so.
This buy out was never about doing what's best for the public or the employees. And they felt confident they could get the approvals before the pandemic and beforeTransat was in any trouble. Should be even easier now. I'm just telling you how the government is gonna sell it. You don't have to believe it, just wait a couple of months and see.
Ok, but what is the motivation for the government to "sell it" at all costs, voter perception and backlash be damned? The government does not care what Air Canada wants, they will do what is in the publics best interest(and sometimes employees) if nothing else but for their own self interest in securing public support for themselves.
Say if they they offer refunds, or Transat really will liquidate without another buyer, then yes that gives the government incentive to sell a deal to the public. Without that they have no reason to. Unless you are implying that Air Canada has cozy questionable connections with the liberal party? Though im sure if that was the case then AC would have gotten its aid package 6 months ago.
Why was AC so sure they would get approvals before the pandemic hit? Why would the government have approved it then? You seem to think the onus is on the companies to justify why a merger should be allowed to happen when historically it is the opposite. It is a free market and Air Canada and Air Transat do not hold a monopoly on trans atlantic flights, even if you ignore Westjet they still compete with European carriers. The expectation in a democracy is that a deal between 2 private companies will be allowed to happen. The government blocking such a deal for the public good using anti trust laws is the exception, not the rule. If they didn't block First Air and Canadian North, where the merger resulted in an actual monopoly on several routes, they're not going to block this one simply because there's limited Canadian competition. There will be conditions though.
Every large corporation knows m&a is highly scrutinized, it happens every day around the world in free market countries. And yes it is up to the companies to make their case. For example in the US its common knowledge that it is unlikely that any of the big three would gain anti-trust immunity in acquiring any of the smaller players ie Hawaiian.
Read the competition report, there are significant claims there https://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic ... 04522.html
Yes concessions can be made but that will be at the cost of jobs.
Anyone thinking every pilot won't have a job coming out of this are just pessimistic and trying to feed their own agenda of how they want this panning out.
If say in Feb both companies required around 5000-5500 pilots in their outlook. Now combining concessions as well as general upgauging and reduction of capacity long term planning could be say 4000-4500 pilots. Without the competition capacity will shrink with prices and yields rising. For the employees that will mean less positions to go around. I wouldnt call getting the opportunity to comeback years down the road as a job. And dont forget almost 40,000 people work for both companies, many will permanently loose their jobs without the ability to be called back. They matter too.
While you are right about total employment loss, pilots will be fine. We follow where the flying goes. The flying won’t disappear.
It will be slow for a bit, but every pilot has a position waiting for them in the next year or max 2.
It really only are the last 100 pilots at ts who won’t have a position in the beginning. But in a 10 year recall structure, they’ll be in the left seat in that time frame at AC.
Quote this post in 2026 or 2027. I get to tell you that I told you so.
So the bottom people from AC and Transat can just go start over at another carrier who steps in to fill the gap from concessions? And it's not just pilots, there are 10 times as many other people to consider than just pilots.
I just argue for the course of action that employees the most people for both Air Canada and Transat, that's all.
This wouldn't be so much of an issue if the airline industry wasn't so insanely top end weighted and seasoned professionals didn't start over in the exact same job at 40k.
If say in Feb both companies required around 5000-5500 pilots in their outlook. Now combining concessions as well as general upgauging and reduction of capacity long term planning could be say 4000-4500 pilots. Without the competition capacity will shrink with prices and yields rising. For the employees that will mean less positions to go around. I wouldnt call getting the opportunity to comeback years down the road as a job. And dont forget almost 40,000 people work for both companies, many will permanently loose their jobs without the ability to be called back. They matter too.
While you are right about total employment loss, pilots will be fine. We follow where the flying goes. The flying won’t disappear.
It will be slow for a bit, but every pilot has a position waiting for them in the next year or max 2.
It really only are the last 100 pilots at ts who won’t have a position in the beginning. But in a 10 year recall structure, they’ll be in the left seat in that time frame at AC.
Quote this post in 2026 or 2027. I get to tell you that I told you so.
So the bottom people from AC and Transat can just go start over at another carrier who steps in to fill the gap from concessions? And it's not just pilots, there are 10 times as many other people to consider than just pilots.
I just argue for the course of action that employees the most people for both Air Canada and Transat, that's all.
Right, again nothing you or I can do about someone who is in a support staff capacity that loses their job. As pilots, everyone will have jobs who currently sit on both seniority lists.
I mentioned this in another post however is it just me or does the merger seems pretty negative for anyone with a future desire to go to Air Canada? An even larger list of recalls to get through before hiring is even considered.
A career outside of Canada looks even more attractive now than before.
dash8driver wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:55 pm
I mentioned this in another post however is it just me or does the merger seems pretty negative for anyone with a future desire to go to Air Canada? An even larger list of recalls to get through before hiring is even considered.
A career outside of Canada looks even more attractive now than before.
You know the answer. However nobody knows what’s gonna happen in the world next month so anything can happen. Good luck with a career outside Canada; the world is full of experienced type rated pilots looking for a job...when you see all these pay to fly ads for FO and Captains..it’s really bad out there!
One thing I did find odd yesterday was no media release from Air Canada. Not even a statement about the regular crap "we are please of the shareholders decision today and look forward to work with AT for a smooth transition" ... They just put out nothing.
It makes me think of the silence first time around and how it led to a revised price. I don't know what this silence means but it's just something to think about.
One thing I did find odd yesterday was no media release from Air Canada. Not even a statement about the regular crap "we are please of the shareholders decision today and look forward to work with AT for a smooth transition" ... They just put out nothing.
It makes me think of the silence first time around and how it led to a revised price. I don't know what this silence means but it's just something to think about.
What are they going to say? They made their intentions known already .. they’re just waiting to cross the finish line. Don’t cloud your head with delusions .. AC has had a lot of opportunities to scuttle this deal, they chose to pursue it. That says a lot.
Air Canada just offered to the EU concessions on 27 routes including 13 out of Montreal (which were identified as problematic regarding the competition). They are doing all what it takes to close the deal.
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Last edited by FL320 on Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
FL320 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:37 am
Air Canada just offered to the EU concessions on 27 routes including 13 out of Montreal. They are doing all what it takes to close the deal.
Have a reference on this? I would like to read that
FL320 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:37 am
Air Canada just offered to the EU concessions on 27 routes including 13 out of Montreal. They are doing all what it takes to close the deal.
Have a reference on this? I would like to read that
Out of JM Eustache’s mouth to the media yesterday after the meeting, you can find a copy on the internet.
FL320 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:37 am
Air Canada just offered to the EU concessions on 27 routes including 13 out of Montreal (which were identified as problematic regarding the competition). They are doing all what it takes to close the deal.
All that AC has to do is propose to drop the TATL route authorities associated with Rouge and the TS TATL route authorities that overlap AC mainline.
FL320 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:37 am
Air Canada just offered to the EU concessions on 27 routes including 13 out of Montreal. They are doing all what it takes to close the deal.
Have a reference on this? I would like to read that
Out of JM Eustache’s mouth to the media yesterday after the meeting, you can find a copy on the internet.
Air Canada floated a billion dollar share offering today. The day after that closes, expect an announcement about refunds, then later the same day, government will approve the transaction.
