All Trainees Fired

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levinqute
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All Trainees Fired

Post by levinqute »

With all the trainees being let go, even those that were just short of qualification, looks like none of us are getting a chance to become ATC anytime soon.

edit- looks like i got it wrong, some specialty and otj still remain, there is a good reddit thread on the topic too.
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Woxof38
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Re: All Trainees Fired

Post by Woxof38 »

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-rele ... tions.html

To adapt to the new realities of air traffic levels, the company is also taking steps to safely streamline operations and will be launching level of service reviews for certain aerodromes.
the company has reduced more than 720 jobs or 14 per cent of the workforce. NAV CANADA will continue to monitor air traffic activity across the country and adapt its operations and workforce accordingly as necessary.
The company will also close its flight information centres in Winnipeg and Halifax.
Aeronautical studies will be launched to assess levels of service in Saint-Jean QC, Castlegar BC, Churchill MB, High Level AB, Peace River AB, Brandon MB, Fort Nelson BC, Fort St John BC, Inuvik NWT, Lloydminster AB, Norman Wells NWT, Port Hardy BC, Prince Albert SK, Red Deer AB, Sept-Îles QC, Dawson Creek BC, Fort McMurray AB, Flin Flon MB, The Pas MB, Buffalo Narrows SK, Kuujjuarapik QC, Blanc Sablon QC, Natashquan QC, and Sydney NS. The terms of reference for these studies will be posted on navcanada.ca in the coming weeks.

I heard 5 FSS are slated for closure YPE YYQ YOJ YCG YLL and 10 FSS reducing hours, no midnights YBR YPA YXJ YEV YVQ YUY YZV YYE YZT YQF
Not sure if towers affected
200 managers layed off
All training has stopped
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clr4takeoff
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Re: All Trainees Fired

Post by clr4takeoff »

Not all trainees are fired. From what I heard, if the planification is to check out (having your licence) before the end of the year, you are still in. For trainees assisting basic course or just begining OJT (on job training), it will be different.
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Braun
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Re: All Trainees Fired

Post by Braun »

clr4takeoff wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:29 am Not all trainees are fired. From what I heard, if the planification is to check out (having your licence) before the end of the year, you are still in. For trainees assisting basic course or just begining OJT (on job training), it will be different.
Not really true. It was a unit by unit basis. I can confirm that trainees nearing check out have lost their jobs. I can also confirm that some trainees on specialty training remain for units with staffing issues. It wasn't a broad stroke, it was planned unit by unit.
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VFRDreamer
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Re: All Trainees Fired

Post by VFRDreamer »

Hi from YVR FIR here. I am one of the trainees cut but the rest of the trainees from my class are still in place. However I imagine as time goes on they will cut trainees before they cut licensed controllers. Until those still in training actually get their license it will be a scary time.
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Lmck596
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Re: All Trainees Fired

Post by Lmck596 »

Oh vfrdreamer I am so sorry to hear that! :(
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levinqute
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Re: All Trainees Fired

Post by levinqute »

VFRDreamer wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:36 am Hi from YVR FIR here. I am one of the trainees cut but the rest of the trainees from my class are still in place. However I imagine as time goes on they will cut trainees before they cut licensed controllers. Until those still in training actually get their license it will be a scary time.
:cry: I feel for everyone involved, especially those OTJ months/weeks away from certification... I didnt even get an offer and I feel let down, cant imagine what you guys are going through. NC also laid off management and support staff too.

I am going to imagine the pipe dream return date would be Sept 2021, but most likely mid 2022 or early 23, seriously though what is NAVCAN's plan for when people starting traveling during holidays again, or when global travel bans are lifted? There is no way shutdowns and quarantine procedures continue into late 2021 even if COVID is still around. No one can afford that.
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Boooooo
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Re: All Trainees Fired

Post by Boooooo »

I'm sorry to hear about the cuts.

Will NavCanada be recalling the laidoff trainees once things start recovering? Or do they have no choice but to re-apply all over?
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MaintainVFR
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Re: All Trainees Fired

Post by MaintainVFR »

levinqute wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:46 pm
VFRDreamer wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:36 am Hi from YVR FIR here. I am one of the trainees cut but the rest of the trainees from my class are still in place. However I imagine as time goes on they will cut trainees before they cut licensed controllers. Until those still in training actually get their license it will be a scary time.
:cry: I feel for everyone involved, especially those OTJ months/weeks away from certification... I didnt even get an offer and I feel let down, cant imagine what you guys are going through. NC also laid off management and support staff too.

I am going to imagine the pipe dream return date would be Sept 2021, but most likely mid 2022 or early 23, seriously though what is NAVCAN's plan for when people starting traveling during holidays again, or when global travel bans are lifted? There is no way shutdowns and quarantine procedures continue into late 2021 even if COVID is still around. No one can afford that.
It’s going to take a while to recover. Even if covid went away today it would to take a while for commercial air traffic to return to Feb 2020 levels. Airlines will have to rehire and retrain their staff, aircraft will have to be recovered from storage and other logistical problems sorted out. The other issue is lack of demand for business travel; airlines rely on this for their bottom line. Covid has changed how companies do business and the need for face-to-face meetings has been greatly reduced.

Yes traffic will return at some point but it’s likely to be a slow go; Nav seems to be betting that they will be able to train and qualify controllers as needed. I have no comment as to whether that is a good decision or not.
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levinqute
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Re: All Trainees Fired

Post by levinqute »

MaintainVFR wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:22 pm
levinqute wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:46 pm
VFRDreamer wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:36 am Hi from YVR FIR here. I am one of the trainees cut but the rest of the trainees from my class are still in place. However I imagine as time goes on they will cut trainees before they cut licensed controllers. Until those still in training actually get their license it will be a scary time.
:cry: I feel for everyone involved, especially those OTJ months/weeks away from certification... I didnt even get an offer and I feel let down, cant imagine what you guys are going through. NC also laid off management and support staff too.

I am going to imagine the pipe dream return date would be Sept 2021, but most likely mid 2022 or early 23, seriously though what is NAVCAN's plan for when people starting traveling during holidays again, or when global travel bans are lifted? There is no way shutdowns and quarantine procedures continue into late 2021 even if COVID is still around. No one can afford that.
It’s going to take a while to recover. Even if covid went away today it would to take a while for commercial air traffic to return to Feb 2020 levels. Airlines will have to rehire and retrain their staff, aircraft will have to be recovered from storage and other logistical problems sorted out. The other issue is lack of demand for business travel; airlines rely on this for their bottom line. Covid has changed how companies do business and the need for face-to-face meetings has been greatly reduced.

Yes traffic will return at some point but it’s likely to be a slow go; Nav seems to be betting that they will be able to train and qualify controllers as needed. I have no comment as to whether that is a good decision or not.
All good points. Especially how slow airlines will be to reintroduce flights/planes back into the market. Took them a long time after 9/11 and this is way worse.

I personally think it will be bad for NC in the future but I dont know much about their operational history. Ive read that all the trainees that were let go have the ability to get recalled or first choice when they start rehiring, but even if you were just short of certification I cant see many waiting 2-3+ years to come back to work. You can even go back to school and start a new career in that time frame.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: All Trainees Fired

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Yes traffic will return at some point but it’s likely to be a slow go; Nav seems to be betting that they will be able to train and qualify controllers as needed. I have no comment as to whether that is a good decision or not.
3 weeks ago I was flying VFR in Southern Vancouver Island and was denied entry into Class C airspace due to staffing shortages in the ACC. Awesome, Nav Canada already doesn't have enough controllers when traffic is way down and now they are laying off all the future controllers, what could possibly go wrong.....

However I don't blame Nav Canada on this. The funding model for Nav Canada requires a high and consistent level of airline flights paying airways charges. The Nav Canada revenue stream has disappeared through no fault of their own and so they have no choice but to cut expenses, and the biggest expense is staff salaries.

The bottom line is it is in Canada's national interest to have a functioning Air Navigation System. While I am not a big fan of government bailouts, i think this is one area that the Federal Government needs so step up and provide bride funding to Nav Canada so that the controller ranks don't get gutted. Given how long it takes to train an fully functioning controller the Canadian Air Transport system is being set up for failure.
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kevenv
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Re: All Trainees Fired

Post by kevenv »

I had a manager tell be that NavCan was losing $1500 per MINUTE. Thats about $2.1 million dollars per day. Pretty grim.
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wordstwice
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Re: All Trainees Fired

Post by wordstwice »

This is a situation where Nav Canada can't win. They raised fees by 30% to keep the books balanced and must be accountable to the stakeholders by keeping costs in line. With the decimation of traffic every ATC Unit across the country went from being staffed/short staffed to being at staff with a few still being short staffed. This created a situation where there isn't much or any need for new controllers for the next year or two nor any need for the controllers in training.

There still quite a bit of traffic flying everyday that requires a significant resource of people and technology. Even at 40% traffic level we will see delays and denial of service (Class C for example) but, again, Nav Canada can't win. People will complain that they aren't being fiscally responsible and then complain when they get flow delays.

Going forward, I predict an immense shortage of controllers. Even if traffic comes returns to a modest level, say 70%, we will find ourselves with an ATS system barely able to cope with that traffic level and there will be a renewed hate towards Nav Canada from people who think they have a better solution.

Should the Government step in and offer cash? Should they give it to the airlines instead? I don't pretend to have the answers but do know that this is destroying people's lives and will continue to hurt for a long time to come.

Things can change quickly but anyone was hoping for a career in ATC should direct their efforts elsewhere for the time being. If it's a dream of yours to get this job, don't despair, things will change and you WILL be needed. Just take care of yourselves in the meantime.
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Last edited by wordstwice on Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
digits_
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Re: All Trainees Fired

Post by digits_ »

I liked how I got an angry phone call because an ATC manager was erroneously assuming I needed a training slot for my flight.
Even if I did, there were 2 departures and 2 arrivals in the hour I was flying. Made me scrach my head. :roll:
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levinqute
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Re: All Trainees Fired

Post by levinqute »

kevenv wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:05 pm I had a manager tell be that NavCan was losing $1500 per MINUTE. Thats about $2.1 million dollars per day. Pretty grim.
Damn.. that certainly puts things into perspective.

I agree with Big Pistons though, it really looked like NAVCAN could have used a bailout or additional funding. Dont want to start an argument over privatization but was that the main reason NC received no additional financial support? It seems like they only got the wage support funding that everyone else got.

AC also got hit pretty big again wonder if they will get another bailout
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VFRDreamer
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Re: All Trainees Fired

Post by VFRDreamer »

levinqute wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:49 pm
kevenv wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:05 pm I had a manager tell be that NavCan was losing $1500 per MINUTE. Thats about $2.1 million dollars per day. Pretty grim.
Damn.. that certainly puts things into perspective.

I agree with Big Pistons though, it really looked like NAVCAN could have used a bailout or additional funding. Dont want to start an argument over privatization but was that the main reason NC received no additional financial support? It seems like they only got the wage support funding that everyone else got.

AC also got hit pretty big again wonder if they will get another bailout
I think I little clarity is important. The $$$ that is being lost I hear is changing. I’ve heard 1.4 mill a day 80 mill a month. So take the exact number with a grain of salt. 1.4-2.6 mill a day is a large range. However even at the low end it’s huge.
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