Realities of Nav Canada and family

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Mamabear1
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Realities of Nav Canada and family

Post by Mamabear1 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:08 am

If during the interview process you reveal that you have 5 kiddos, all under 12 - will this likely exclude you?
I get that there are realities to them wanting candidates who can successfully make it through.

What if you are able to demonstrate what you have managed alongside your parenting and family obligations?
I.e. a business, education, volunteering, active gym life?

Also, truthfully do you think one could (with an active support from family I.e. live in mother in law who has already agreed to step in) dedicate enough energy to making it through training?

Any guess on how many hours a week (excluding commutes) you spent on nav canada during training?

And uh..... ya... clearly asking... for a friend. :lol:
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stabilizedapproach
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Re: Realities of Nav Canada and family

Post by stabilizedapproach » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:58 pm

It won’t exclude you. They’re looking for aptitude so if you have what it takes, they’ll try. Keep in mind that they’re so specific as to what they’re looking for that if you have it, they won’t care about external factors.

You will need support regardless of whether you have kids. Training will be one of the hardest things you will ever do in your life. If you don’t stress over the classroom portion, you’ll at least stress over the on-job portion. There’s no way around the fact that your support network needs to be super strong and understanding about what’s going on.

Excluding commutes, I’ve easily pulled multiple 9-10 hour days in a row, sometimes as much as 10-12 hours too, including a few hours on weekends when it’s crunch time. Not necessarily the norm, but if you factor in practicing and studying, that’ll be pretty close. The key to success is knowing when you need to show up and practice. It’s not a normal job, and while the classroom is “school”, it’s not like school either.
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AirFrame
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Re: Realities of Nav Canada and family

Post by AirFrame » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:28 am

The simple answer is to not reveal anything about family in the interview process. They can't legally ask, you aren't obligated to tell them, and they can't discriminate against you because of it.

That said, it's a valid question to ask how others with families have made it through, and whether others think it's reasonable, given that your first postings are not likely to be in the same town that you live in now. Would you be okay with spending a few years away from your family once your training is complete and you're posted to a job in the middle of nowhere?
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Mamabear1
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Re: Realities of Nav Canada and family

Post by Mamabear1 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:16 am

Thank you for the fantastic replies.
I feel that being honest about my family circumstances during an interview would be an important look into who I am as a person.
Truthfully, there are women out there who can barely manage 1 kiddo, I have 5 (2 of which are twins age 16 mos) and somehow I prioritize self care, self improvement, Volunteer work and a business.
I'm up at 430 each day to go to the gym, and study after the kids are in bed each night.
In truth keeping 5 humans who are constantly attempting to choke, drown, electrocute, spontaneously combust themselves, while keeping healthy home cooked meals on the table, and get through chores and homework with them each night, keep a husband happy, manage the house along side all my own shit,.... it feels a little like how it felt to do DART at the assesment haha! So IF I'm lucky enough to get a call back, at least I know based on the replies it doeant mean an automatic and off the record big red line through my name.
Because let's be honest, what's legal or not, depending company culture, can always be circumvented unfortunately.
I wouldnt have applied it everything I've read about nav Canada implied its company culture is great, but I thought I'd ask because what is presented and what is so isnt always the same!
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Mamabear1
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Re: Realities of Nav Canada and family

Post by Mamabear1 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:46 pm

And.... how likely if you wanted a vfr stream and were offered it, is it that youd end up in sault ste marie for the yyz FIR?
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stabilizedapproach
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Re: Realities of Nav Canada and family

Post by stabilizedapproach » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:53 am

Hard to say because it all depends on operational needs. Probably a reasonable chance though.
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Lotro
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Re: Realities of Nav Canada and family

Post by Lotro » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:12 am

Quite probable that you'll end up in Sault Ste. Marie if you're VFR in the YZ FIR. They've had at least one student off of the last 3 courses and one from out of the FIR. That said, they do try to place you where you'll be successful, and if your family situation isn't conducive to a few years in YAM there's a chance they'll offer you something closer to home. No guarantees though.

Nearly all new VFR students in the YZ FIR are streamed into the Tower Progression Program which means you'll be sent to either YKF, YOO, YAM, YXU, or YHM for initial qualification. If you qualify, then the company can recall you within two years to place you at YYZ.

YXU and YTZ are chronically short staffed and there are rumours that some offers have been made for ab initio trainees to have permanent postings at those units right out of basic (i.e. not TPP with recall to YYZ).

Everyone's journey through training is unique. The only common theme is that it's harder than everyone thinks it is when they start. On the job training is a long grind (it has to be because of the kind of job it is), and maintaining a demanding life at home can be difficult, not impossible, but difficult.

Applying is free though, so go for it and assess the situation as it becomes more real. Good luck!
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Mamabear1
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Re: Realities of Nav Canada and family

Post by Mamabear1 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:23 am

Without divulging too much, I've just been nearing the end of an arduous journey alongside "normal" life.
I'm not an arrogant person but I feel deep personal pride I'm the grace, grit, determination and strength it took. I have a very supportive husband thank goodness. (So long as I maintain that gym booty it should stay thathat way :mrgreen: )

I appreciate all the replies. It's for sure all a very big if (waiting to hear back about feast still) but the more i know about realities of how it might shake out should i have the fortunes of a training offer, the more honest I can be with myself and Nav canada about what I REALLY bring to the table.

I'm not a maverick so I dont want to promise myself, my family or the job the moon, when I dont even have a starting clue about what the moon even is).

So this is all truly helpful!
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Mamabear1
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Re: Realities of Nav Canada and family

Post by Mamabear1 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:25 am

As an aside, a lot of this is coming from a belief that if you fail to plan to plan to fail. So I want to get my ducks in a row so when they say "can you commit to this? I can say with as much confidence as i can "Yes. Yes I believe I can."
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Re: Realities of Nav Canada and family

Post by AirFrame » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:23 am

Mamabear1 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:16 am
I feel that being honest about my family circumstances during an interview would be an important look into who I am as a person.
It would. But keep in mind that if it comes down to there being one spot, and it's you vs. another otherwise-equally-qualified candidate who has not communicated their home life situation, they will get chosen. Not because you *can't* do it. But because there's a higher probability that the other candidate *can* do it.

I, too, tend to over-share during job interviews in the hopes of developing more of a rappore with the interviewers... But having spent the last three years job hunting and interviewing, I can say with certainty that discrimination happens, and anything that puts blood on the page (a red mark) is to be avoided in any discussion with a potential employer. At least this is true in the high-tech sector, but I can't see it being much different at NavCanada... Although I hear they are having trouble filling spots, so maybe they're willing to take chances with the people they have.
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Mamabear1
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Re: Realities of Nav Canada and family

Post by Mamabear1 » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:00 am

AirFrame wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:23 am
Mamabear1 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:16 am
I feel that being honest about my family circumstances during an interview would be an important look into who I am as a person.
It would. But keep in mind that if it comes down to there being one spot, and it's you vs. another otherwise-equally-qualified candidate who has not communicated their home life situation, they will get chosen. Not because you *can't* do it. But because there's a higher probability that the other candidate *can* do it.

I, too, tend to over-share during job interviews in the hopes of developing more of a rappore with the interviewers... But having spent the last three years job hunting and interviewing, I can say with certainty that discrimination happens, and anything that puts blood on the page (a red mark) is to be avoided in any discussion with a potential employer. At least this is true in the high-tech sector, but I can't see it being much different at NavCanada... Although I hear they are having trouble filling spots, so maybe they're willing to take chances with the people they have.
Very very good points.

Where I am concerned is how I might explain the gaps in my resume without it coming out regardless.

What is this about trouble filling gaps? It seems surprising to me. Why are they having trouble??
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MaintainVFR
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Re: Realities of Nav Canada and family

Post by MaintainVFR » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:04 am

Mamabear1 wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:00 am
AirFrame wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:23 am
Mamabear1 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:16 am
I feel that being honest about my family circumstances during an interview would be an important look into who I am as a person.
It would. But keep in mind that if it comes down to there being one spot, and it's you vs. another otherwise-equally-qualified candidate who has not communicated their home life situation, they will get chosen. Not because you *can't* do it. But because there's a higher probability that the other candidate *can* do it.

I, too, tend to over-share during job interviews in the hopes of developing more of a rappore with the interviewers... But having spent the last three years job hunting and interviewing, I can say with certainty that discrimination happens, and anything that puts blood on the page (a red mark) is to be avoided in any discussion with a potential employer. At least this is true in the high-tech sector, but I can't see it being much different at NavCanada... Although I hear they are having trouble filling spots, so maybe they're willing to take chances with the people they have.
Very very good points.

Where I am concerned is how I might explain the gaps in my resume without it coming out regardless.

What is this about trouble filling gaps? It seems surprising to me. Why are they having trouble??
My experience is as a VFR controller so I’m going to try and answer from that point of view. Training is a long process and requires pulling controllers out of position to teach courses. For VFR the best time to run a course is through the winter as traffic levels are lower and it’s easier to release people from their towers to go teach. Adding to that the application process is complicated and long, even a quick application to course start is about 6 months. From my application to qualification it took just over 18 months; I was very much at the fast end of the scale. For a person applying now the management are trying to project staffing needs for perhaps 2 years from now. They are trying to predict retirements, seniority bids and other movement. I will say though that in the last few years I have noticed more of a willingness to start courses even without knowing exactly where people are going to fit. The hope being that by filling the lower grade towers to capacity or above they will start being able to move seniority bids up to the higher grade towers that are short.

I am not in the YYZ FIR so I can’t answer specifically for them but in my FIR there have been several trainees on the last few courses with very young kids. You are asking the right questions and whether it works out for you or not I wish you good luck in your application.
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