Any updates on training?

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novemberalpha
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Any updates on training?

Post by novemberalpha »

Simple question, so I'll keep this short. Wondering if there are any controllers out there who might have their finger on the pulse of things in the company as to whether there are plans in place to resume in the near-ish future (i.e. Fall or onwards)?

For context, got offered an FSS training spot at the beginning of the year in the YVR FIR for beginning of April, was getting prepped to move up to YKA, then in late February got notified that course was bumped to September, then contacted HR mid-April to confirm everything was on-hold and was told course would still be running, but no specifics as to actual timeline and no updates since.

Any insight much appreciated! Hope you're all staying safe out there.
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great4bait
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by great4bait »

It's hard to say anything for certain, as who knows what may happen with a second wave or something. BC is entering a more relaxed phase of COVID restrictions, and NAV CANADA is following a similar pattern in BC. The first step is resuming training at units where people had already begun on the job training and had to be sent home, that's happening right now. The next step will be resuming on the job training everywhere else, then resuming the courses that were running and had to be paused. After all that is complete, basic training courses may resume.

Keep in mind, most airports have suddenly gone from critically understaffed to massively overstaffed in a short period of time. The smart play would be to use this lull to catch up on the training backlog so there are people ready to go when traffic picks up again. Middle managers don't always chose the smart play unfortunately.
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novemberalpha
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by novemberalpha »

Really appreciate the quick reply! I noticed this board has been pretty quiet as of late with everything frozen in time, so was pretty chuffed to get a little intel drop so quickly. I knew that there were some courses that had been frozen, wasn't aware that OJT suffered the same fate. Seems like there's a good amount to get restarted.
Keep in mind, most airports have suddenly gone from critically understaffed to massively overstaffed in a short period of time. The smart play would be to use this lull to catch up on the training backlog so there are people ready to go when traffic picks up again. Middle managers don't always chose the smart play unfortunately.
That's fair - I looked at NAV CANADA's blog the other day and saw their post on the decline in traffic volumes. Normally I'm a big fan of infographics, but those gave me a stomach ache.

But hey, it's been like 18 months waiting patiently, so I'm pretty sure at this point I can just keep going indefinitely and if this all doesn't pan out, maybe I'll consider becoming a Buddhist monk. I do look good in orange. /s
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levinqute
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by levinqute »

I know this question is for FSS but I personally dont think you should expect an update this year.

Like great4bait stated for controllers alot of candidates are still in the waiting pool. There are people that are OTJ, the Spring 2020 classes that were delayed, people who passed the boot camp this spring with no offers yet, then the people who passed FEAST but no boot camp invite. I also dont see them holding FEAST sessions this fall.

Cant be that different for the FSS group. But with international travel opening up now maybe we will get some updates soon.
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Nekton
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by Nekton »

Just came across this news blurb announcing Nav Canada is resuming limited night service in Atlantic Canada:

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-rele ... tions.html

Encouraging I guess. As regular services resume across the country there should be some movement on the training side too.
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Iwillbecomeanatc
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by Iwillbecomeanatc »

Nekton wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:54 am Just came across this news blurb announcing Nav Canada is resuming limited night service in Atlantic Canada:

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-rele ... tions.html

Encouraging I guess. As regular services resume across the country there should be some movement on the training side too.
This is some great news to all of us waiting. It will be a long and dragging wait for me, as I just passed the initial online test a month ago.

What period of the year do they usually hold in person tests? (The one after the online)

I am in YEG.
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stabilizedapproach
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by stabilizedapproach »

Just a word of advice before anyone turns blue holding their breath for a call to move ahead... and please understand I only say this because I was once in your shoes waiting with high expectations to move forward so I know and sympathize with the anxiety that comes with waiting for good or bad news.

Resumption of service does not necessarily mean resumption of training and in turn, resumption of recruiting. They’re all mutually exclusive.

Bait said it earlier and they are correct. Most places are now way over staffed. Staffing needs aren’t what they used to be pre-COVID at most places for a very long time ahead.
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ErrPlane
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by ErrPlane »

It's also worth noting that in THIS thread, it was mentioned that Nav Canada offered retirement packages, and later in the thread that several people have retired recently.

Nav wouldn't be encouraging people to retire if they were hungry for bodies. My interpretation is that because of the pandemic, they were both overstaffed, and looking to cut costs.

As a result I'd imagine we'd need to see a the aviation industry rebound pretty significantly before Nav hiring picks back up.

Of course this is all just speculation, and as an applicant I hope I'm wrong. Time will tell.
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Nekton
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by Nekton »

Of course it makes total sense that the reduced air traffic has lead to many areas of the country being over staffed, particularly high volume centers like YVZ, YYZ, YUL I'm sure. But my impression pre-covid was that the recruitment push of the last few years was about more than just catching up with staffing, it was also about preparing for the future as many long term employees approach retirement. Perhaps this was wrong? Whatever the case I'm sure this slowdown will have ripples for many years and no doubt will delay recruitment for quite a while longer. It was encouraging to hear a few people post on other threads that some limited training had resumed though.
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stabilizedapproach
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by stabilizedapproach »

You are correct in that the company has been trying to recruit for to address future staffing shortfalls, but it’s also important to understand that staffing needs aren’t the same as what they were in February before Covid became a much bigger thing. Many units and specialties are now re-evaluating their staffing needs to be in line with traffic levels. Because of Covid restrictions and how demanding training is on a unit, I cannot see training being expedited to try and stay ahead of the staffing curve.

Training resumption has to happen as lockdown loosens in a very controlled manner to ensure distancing. I’m sure you can appreciate recruitment is tougher though as there is an in-person component that takes place at the ACC. We still have non-essential person restrictions at all facilities for the foreseeable future.
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wordstwice
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by wordstwice »

Ab initio training is about to restart.

Initially starting for FSS only, then some control towers, then finally ACC's.

Even though ACC's are last on the list I feel that when traffic returns, even at a reduced level, the company will see the dire staffing situation in some places and start training earlier than planned.

The first part of my post is fact, the second is just my opinion.
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atcguy98
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by atcguy98 »

wordstwice wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:20 am Ab initio training is about to restart.

Initially starting for FSS only, then some control towers, then finally ACC's.

Even though ACC's are last on the list I feel that when traffic returns, even at a reduced level, the company will see the dire staffing situation in some places and start training earlier than planned.

The first part of my post is fact, the second is just my opinion.
Is there any source for this information (i.e. press release)? Is there no word of them recalling trainees who were let go first, as was expected, rather than starting ab initio?

Nonetheless, this is exciting news for all of us ATC hopefuls sitting under "Assessment" on WorkDay! I'm guessing that they will just go down the list of applicants solely based on initial online test scores and begin invites for the FEAST examination? Thank you :)
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Last edited by atcguy98 on Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:08 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Nekton
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by Nekton »

Good news indeed, but I'm also curious as to the source, can you provide?

Where does fact blur into opinion? Is it just the first line that is fact? Does the factual statement extend to starting with FSS, then Towers, then ACC?

So many interested parties, so little evidence...
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wordstwice
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by wordstwice »

since people want to be doubters..... the source is from a communication sent from the CEO to the employee group.

Like I said in my post, the facts are they plan to start training with FSS first, then some Towers, and lastly the ACC's. Thats all the information that was given.

Do with it what you will.
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16SidedOffice
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by 16SidedOffice »

There are going to be some seriously short units before any help arrives. The short-sightedness is over the top.
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atcguy98
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by atcguy98 »

Not much to do until people start to get invites for the in-person assessments anyway, which we'll see when those start rolling out.

Why would they specifically want to hire for FSS first? If a candidate performed great, wouldn't they want to push them towards ACC or Tower instead?
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Top_Gun
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by Top_Gun »

atcguy98 wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 5:44 am Not much to do until people start to get invites for the in-person assessments anyway, which we'll see when those start rolling out.

Why would they specifically want to hire for FSS first? If a candidate performed great, wouldn't they want to push them towards ACC or Tower instead?
What you have to remember is that there were trainees in all phases of training/hiring process when they ceased training and laid off. These will be the first ones to resume training in the order indicated above.

Brand new off the street hires could take a little while I imagine as they get everything rolling again with the trainees and candidates they already had in the pipeline.
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wordstwice
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by wordstwice »

Also, don't forget they just cancelled layoff notices for a bunch of IFR controllers so in the company's mind, we could be over staffed at the moment at the ACC level.

Unfortunately, as already said, this is extremely short-sighted and a lot of specialties in the ACC's will be extremely short staffed to handle any sort of rebound in traffic.
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RexKrammer
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by RexKrammer »

Part of the problem is the powers that be at HQ are looking at schedules at the bigger towers and ACCs and see a number of controllers on "spare" every day. So they think there's no staffing crisis. And until the airlines are banging at the door wanting to know why there's staffing delays they don't have a problem.
Unfortunately they don't seem to be recognising that it can take up to 2yrs to train at the ACC and complex towers, so instead of starting training now to be ready for when traffic volumes have returned, I fear it's going to be a panicked game of catch up.
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wanderlust_xx
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Re: Any updates on training?

Post by wanderlust_xx »

I was in the the group of trainees let go in September.
I was a fair amount of the way through IFR speciality.

We have not heard anything yet directly.
I have only been told that internal emails were sent with mention of starting training... no timeline though.

crossing fingers!
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