Save Our Country & Our Industry

[montado]

The question was asked, what could potentially have happened had COVID-19 been allowed to "run its course" and to "cull the heard". It would have been an unmitigated disaster.

What could have happened? Or what would have happened. You are mixing up words. Can we bring some clarity to your point.

See we can make lots of outlandish “could” statements... like I can say if we do nothing to stop covid, it could kill everyone!

But would it? Would means we need to actually look at this with some logic, and use some evidence to support what we are saying. I can no longer say something like covid would kill everyone if we let it spread.

So sure, the WHO can “say whatever they like with no filter for garbage”and make all sorts of “what could happen”. It’s really safe to say anything could happen when you don’t want to be scientific about it. Not only did you say 10 percent, but you also say that’s being conservative, which is completely idiotic. I think you made it up. It’s all made up garbage and no one can take you seriously.

I do like irony!

The irony that you hold internet strangers to the same standard as the main agency responsible for pandemic guidance for the world? Surely you can forgive me for my garbage talk

10 percent death rate! Aha I thought I heard it all but the number keeps growing. Why don’t they just say everyone will die and maybe then we will all be convinced we need to take this a little more seriously... I can’t find this 10 percent figure published anywhere, so if anyone can link me to it that would be great.

[Rockie]

Ah spoken like a true liberal. Sexual assault is okay, as long as I can redirect the attention somewhere else. I wonder if the women he touched are thinking... “well at least trumps not prez anymore, life could be worse”

Liberals are the biggest hypocrites.

How many women have accused Trump of assaulting them again? 26 or something. That's not including the ones who just want to forget the disgusting pig exists or the ones he illegally paid off. Seriously Montado, do you really want to play that game?

Oh look at rockie go! Double down! The demotard can do no harm. Tell us more whataboutisims. What about trump! Sexual harassment is okay if you are a democrat! See, we can just use a what about trump here and what about trump there... then the sexual harassment disappears... I’ll just keep doubling down and talking about trump and it all disappears.

So much for equality, inclusion, women’s rights and all things liberals stand for. Those things only matter to rockie when it’s convenient, he’s even willing to double down to show everyone how so.

You dragged Cuomo into this, nobody else has mentioned him or sexual assault, and nobody here including me is defending him. You are delusional, and childishly trying to deflect, distract, and desperately trying to find some pathetic way to bash liberals. You are a joke.

[flymore]

The WHO put out a prediction very early on as to what would likely occur. The numbers are far from being rosy.

So, 10% of 5.46 Billion equals (roughly) 546,000,000 (546 Million) deaths by the end of 2020.

How anyone could think that "letting things run their course" would be a good idea is fucking beyond me, because there's no way any semblance of normality would ever return to the planet with an unmitigated disaster of that size and scope.

This is the sort of misinformed fear mongering that is causing the mass hysteria. To be clear, initial WHO incorrect predictions based on Wuhan data was 3.4%.

Here is the most comprehensive PEER REVIEWED study published by the very same WHO, a few months later, which analyzed data from 14 countries and 51 cities. https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_fir ... 265892.pdf

It states that median infection fatality rate for all ages is 0.23% (FYI median infection fatality rate for the flu is 0.1%).

COVID Infection fatality rate for below age 70 is 0.05%.

All of the above matches CDC data.

Science requires constant analysis and review and change. Yet, most of the world is stuck in the addiction to fear from early incorrect predictions.

We have committed the single biggest miscalculation of risk in history. All of this peer reviewed and government public health data is referenced in the PDF in the original post, along with other information. (See COVID Mortality Section and Government Response section)

covid facts every canadian should know (but most don't) - mar 01 2021 rev 1.1.pdf

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Or you can listen to the MSM and live in your echo chamber...

[montado]

An IFR of 0.23 percent sounds like a reasonable guess. It is estimated cases in the USA could be multiplied by 10 to get the actual number of people who had covid. That takes you to nearly 100 percent of their population. An IFR of 0.23 would be 760 deaths in America if everyone got covid there.

Looks like America experienced the “worst case”, they basically reached herd immunity naturally. I don’t think they want an award for this. The world is not envious of this (yet). Time will tell if America comes out ahead. They now have the ability to open up with much less risk to their population. We are kind of stuck where we are with less immunity and more fear and hysteria.

These numbers also align with Canada, we have probably experienced infection in about 25 percent of our population.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/21/cdc ... -19-cases/


What’s the good news for America?
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/can- ... than-once/

Reinfection is rare. You bods will build up antibodies... if you do get infected again your symptoms may be less as you build a resistance. I’d say with or without a vaccine, the virus will have a hard time sustaining itself in America. If you can’t get over your fear at this point what does it take?

[Rockie]

Again, that PDF flymore keeps pushing was written by a pilot. While this pilot is I’m sure a terrific pilot, he is not a scientist nor a journalist. He is a pilot. This document is not a scientific paper, it is an opinion piece written to express his point of view and as such it is a 64 page Avcanada post.

[montado]

Again, that PDF flymore keeps pushing was written by a pilot. While this pilot is I’m sure a terrific pilot, he is not a scientist nor a journalist. He is a pilot. This document is not a scientific paper, it is an opinion piece written to express his point of view and as such it is a 64 page Avcanada post.

Poster puts up a PDF with information, provides sources, information appears consistent with reality...
Other poster claims they are being conservative when they say covid could have had a 10 percent death rate according to the WHO, can’t even provide a link to this claim from even the the most shitty news source. The 10 percent claim is completely idiotic and not even remotely consistent with anything we have seen. Not even doomvilla or tam makes any statement or predictions remotely close to this...

Then rockie comes out with his weak argument to dismiss the entire post that provides sources. And while there could be some opinions and maybe not all the information is 100 percent fact he dismisses it because the post was made by a pilot. He can’t even articulate one argument to refute one single point that was made.

Is this completely idiotic? Can anyone take any of these doomers seriously? It’s apparent these lockdowns have caused a mental health crisis larger than anyone could have predicted.

[Rockie]

Then rockie comes out with his weak argument to dismiss the entire post that provides sources. And while there could be some opinions and maybe not all the information is 100 percent fact he dismisses it because the post was made by a pilot. He can’t even articulate one argument to refute one single point that was made.

Your reading ability is concerning Montado, I did not dismiss the PDF. I put it in the proper context as something produced by a pilot containing the opinions of a pilot. It is in fact a 64 page Avcanada post a lot longer, but no more scientifically legitimate than anything you write. If the person who produced it has any scientific credentials backing up his opinions this would be a good time to point them out.

This document is being flogged as a significant piece of work, and the author should have offered straight up what his background and qualifications relevant to the subject are. It's called full disclosure.

[montado]

001EE590-924F-4428-848D-1421F2DAC543.jpeg (132.98 KiB) Viewed 1781 times

[Rockie]

Haha. Is that a screen shot from your Saturday morning cartoons Montado? C'mon little boy, it's time to get dressed.

[2R]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/co ... r-BB1exZpt

More fake news ?

[Rockie]

This goes way beyond mere stupidity. Trump and Bosonaro both belong in prison for the rest of their miserable lives for negligence causing death and dereliction of duty.

[montado]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/co ... r-BB1exZpt

More fake news ?

Definitely not fake news,

But a couple points... Brazil is under lockdown measures, looks like that’s not really working out. And something we should have done all along is something like this photo below:

B0BF74DD-600C-489E-8E66-68557C334993.jpeg (1.25 MiB) Viewed 1738 times

Notice how they created a centre specific for covid patients. We should have been doing this all along.

People here are not denying covids existence. The argument is that government policies have been more damaging, and governments are thinking through this very one dimensional. The “experts” have one goal, and that is to stop the spread of covid. People need to figure out how to live with covid. The media sway always makes things out to seem worse than they really are. Brazil is not experiencing a 10 percent death rate. Young healthy people aren’t all of a sudden dying in Brazil. So context matters.

[Ruddervator]

People here are not denying covids existence.

Let's just call out the game here. It's grievance politics. You can see it all over this thread. Here's how the game goes:

1) Minimize or discredit others. In this case, the belief that the cases and deaths are overblown. Anyone who believes the government is a fearmonger.

2) Proclaim your grievance as more deserving of attention. In this case: look at all these businesses failing! How many people who have lost their livelihoods. The government is inept because they are not specifically helping me in the way I want to be helped. "I am the real victim here!"

Any media that supports the government's message is "fake news". Only Postmedia and other right-wing media outlets are telling me the truth.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

[flymore]

Again, that PDF flymore keeps pushing was written by a pilot. While this pilot is I’m sure a terrific pilot, he is not a scientist nor a journalist. He is a pilot. This document is not a scientific paper, it is an opinion piece written to express his point of view and as such it is a 64 page Avcanada post.

You’re right, I’m not an expert. And I’m probably an average hard working pilot.

That being said, I’ve referenced experts and scientific papers. I’ve also addressed the constant rebuttal of “shut up and listen to the experts”. (We Must Ask Questions section).

Lastly, I’m 100% open to respectful constructive feedback on the accuracy of data presented or if I’m missing a viewpoint. I have no qualms being proven wrong.
PS: I’ll ignore personal attacks.

covid facts every canadian should know (but most don't) - mar 01 2021 rev 1.1.pdf

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.

[mbav8r]

[quote=Rockie post_id=<a href="tel:1147255">1147255</a> time=<a href="tel:1615627796">1615627796</a> user_id=5632]
Again, that PDF flymore keeps pushing was written by a pilot. While this pilot is I’m sure a terrific pilot, he is not a scientist nor a journalist. He is a pilot. This document is not a scientific paper, it is an opinion piece written to express his point of view and as such it is a 64 page Avcanada post.

You’re right, I’m not an expert. And I’m probably an average hard working pilot.

That being said, I’ve referenced experts and scientific papers. I’ve also addressed the constant rebuttal of “shut up and listen to the experts”. (We Must Ask Questions section).

Lastly, I’m 100% open to respectful constructive feedback on the accuracy of data presented or if I’m missing a viewpoint. I have no qualms being proven wrong.
PS: I’ll ignore personal attacks.

covid facts every canadian should know (but most don't) - mar 01 2021 rev 1.1.pdf

.
[/quote]

Again, that PDF flymore keeps pushing was written by a pilot. While this pilot is I’m sure a terrific pilot, he is not a scientist nor a journalist. He is a pilot. This document is not a scientific paper, it is an opinion piece written to express his point of view and as such it is a 64 page Avcanada post.

There you have it, flymore appears to be the author, I completely dismissed it when I couldn’t find any credentials attributed to it.
The Covid FACTS you need to know, nearly 2.7 million deaths in a year WITH various lockdowns and prevention methods in effect, if you can’t imagine a scenario where it could’ve been 2, 3 or 10 times worse had we done nothing, you’re nothing short of a complete fucking moron.
The US, which each State had various measures in place but did not have high compliance accounts for 21% of total deaths but only accounts for 4.2% of the world’s population

[flymore]

The Covid FACTS you need to know, nearly 2.7 million deaths in a year WITH various lockdowns and prevention methods in effect, if you can’t imagine a scenario where it could’ve been 2, 3 or 10 times worse had we done nothing, you’re nothing short of a complete fucking moron.

Thanks for the respectful feedback. I’ve heard all your stats before. It’s perfectly fine if you don’t want to look at the document. But please refrain from making assumptions on my stance.

Let me clarify. Covid is real. Covid is a deadly threat to certain demographics and will results in millions of global deaths if not contained. Mitigation is required.

To avoid redundancy from the document information, all I’ll say is this. Data for classification of COVID deaths requires cautious interpretation, which I’ve addressed in my document. And every mitigation policy requires a cost-benefit and effectiveness analysis.

If you take the time to read it with an open mind and provide respectful feedback, I’m all ears. But again, no one is forcing you to read it and no one is forcing you to provide feedback.

Have a good day.

[2R]

The Brazilian variant third wave is affecting the working age population and some breeders . The Polish variant is now affecting school age children .
The slower the vaccine roll out for every body the more opportunities may produce more variants , variants that may make some of the vaccines redundant .

The smart money has already put their big planes in long term storage last year . More planes like the 380 fleets are headed for long term storage in the sandbox . What do they know ?

[mbav8r]

The Covid FACTS you need to know, nearly 2.7 million deaths in a year WITH various lockdowns and prevention methods in effect, if you can’t imagine a scenario where it could’ve been 2, 3 or 10 times worse had we done nothing, you’re nothing short of a complete fucking moron.

Thanks for the respectful feedback. I’ve heard all your stats before. It’s perfectly fine if you don’t want to look at the document. But please refrain from making assumptions on my stance.

Let me clarify. Covid is real. Covid is a deadly threat to certain demographics and will results in millions of global deaths if not contained. Mitigation is required.

To avoid redundancy from the document information, all I’ll say is this. Data for classification of COVID deaths requires cautious interpretation, which I’ve addressed in my document. And every mitigation policy requires a cost-benefit and effectiveness analysis.

If you take the time to read it with an open mind and provide respectful feedback, I’m all ears. But again, no one is forcing you to read it and no one is forcing you to provide feedback.

Have a good day.

I’ll clarify, my comment about the moron was directed at Montado, as I admitted, I didn’t read your entire file. I did peruse but when I couldn’t find an author or any credentials or even that the information had been vetted, I stopped.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and read it with an open mind, I have with other’s, but as I said, without mitigation, this could have been much much worse and anyone who denies that lacks the intelligence required for me to give any credence to anything they have to say.
I also see how you thought that was directed at you, quoted you but I was commenting on Montado’s posts

[ReserveTank]

Then rockie comes out with his weak argument to dismiss the entire post that provides sources. And while there could be some opinions and maybe not all the information is 100 percent fact he dismisses it because the post was made by a pilot. He can’t even articulate one argument to refute one single point that was made.

Your reading ability is concerning Montado, I did not dismiss the PDF. I put it in the proper context as something produced by a pilot containing the opinions of a pilot. It is in fact a 64 page Avcanada post a lot longer, but no more scientifically legitimate than anything you write. If the person who produced it has any scientific credentials backing up his opinions this would be a good time to point them out.

This document is being flogged as a significant piece of work, and the author should have offered straight up what his background and qualifications relevant to the subject are. It's called full disclosure.

Research is what makes the foundation for credentials. Is every Seneca grad with a commercial license a credentialed expert on aviation? Certainly, there must be more to it than paper.

In the case of the midwit public's desire for credentials, a piece of paper and a title mean nothing if the profession is utilized to the detriment of society.

Josef Mengele was a medical expert. So was Dr. Barwin in Ottawa.
The 2008 financial crisis was created by qualified financial experts.
Political experts around the world said Iraq had WMDs.

Credentialed experts on TV are rife with corruption. We see the same "experts" day in and day out contradicting what they said previously, making ambiguous statements, and lacking common sense. The media pushes it, and the propaganda cycle continues...just like 100 years ago.

So when someone researches in earnest, your first instinct is to discard the research on a very narrow and frankly, ignorant premise.



To the author, thanks for the research and compilation of all of the tentacles of the COVID issue. A truly honest and revolutionary act during these times of socioeconomic change.

[Ruddervator]

I've read through the document, and I have some respectful constructive feedback.

The author is clearly smart, and has found a number of studies to support their premise in Part 1.

But after reading Parts 2 and 3, the hyperbolic premise of the whole paper becomes clear: Elitist liberal governments want to take away our rights, forever. When we present our alternative facts, we're told to "shut up and listen to the experts".

In Part 2, there is a whole section on how much money federal employees and politicians make. Clearly a method of portraying governments as elitist and out of touch.

On the topic of variants, the conclusion is: "What is the end game with variants? Shut down
forever, while the virus keeps mutating continuously?"

In Part 3, the author claims that the government would do the following:

• Alcohol would be banned (3 million deaths per year globally)
• Tobacco would be banned (21918 deaths/day globally)
• Highly processed and fried foods would be banned
• Peanuts would be banned
• Exercise would be mandatory
• Abstinence would be promoted to prevent sexually transmitted diseases
(500000 deaths per year globally)
• Driving would be banned (3699 deaths/day globally)
• We would instill a lockdown during every flu season to conserve hospital
capacity. 290000-650000 people die globally of the influenza every year. In
2019, nearly 6900 Canadians died of the flu.

The author seems to believe that the Elitist Liberals want to lock us all away in some kind of Orwellian dystopia. I get it. The author is "just asking questions", and trying to engage in critical thought. But these straw man arguments only work with the Conservative base.

Back to my original point: The author is smart, and knows how to research. The author has also dismissed contrary evidence, or deemed it worthy of "cautious interpretation" to fit the narrative. Anything that doesn't fit is placed on the back burner for future analysis. The figures presented here have been cherry-picked to support his ideological premise.

To flip a phrase from the author the other way around:
Or you can listen to Postmedia news outlets and live in your echo chamber...