Vaccinated people told not to travel in Spain and Russia

[deadbear]

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/inte ... to-travel/

I will admit this might be fake news but interesting theory.

Wonder if blood clots will be issues for vaccinated airline pilots working a 6 hour day. Anyone heard of an increase in blood clots from vaccinated individuals on long haul flights? I have not but am curious if this could turn out to be a future issue with all of the blood clot issues on the news from the recently vaccinated. I have no other source just stumbled upon the article and thought others may find it interesting. Could be a good case not to get into a digital vaccine passport.

We are starting to come full circle. Now airlines in Spain and Russia are warning people who have been vaccinated should not travel. Indeed, COVID-19 vaccinated people can be excluded from air travel! That was the headline of a Russian online news portal. There are a number of news articles coming out a warning that vaccinated people may not be allowed to travel because of the danger of blood clots in the mile-high atmosphere. In Spain, the same thing is appearing. This has raised concerns that are the objective of this vaccine to prevent travel?

Even the American CDC has on their site a warning about blood clots when traveling more than 4 hours on airplanes.

More than 300 million people travel on long-distance flights (generally more than four hours) each year.1 Blood clots, also called deep vein thrombosis (DVT), can be a serious risk for some long-distance travelers. Most information about blood clots and long-distance travel comes from information that has been gathered about air travel. However, anyone traveling more than four hours, whether by air, car, bus, or train, can be at risk for blood clots.

This has caused many to wonder if you are at higher risk of blood clots that can cause death if you travel internationally and thus this was one of the objectives – to end air travel by increasing the risk of flying high. If you are COVID-19 vaccinated, many got vaccinated so they could travel and this leads to people wondering if this was a specific objective.

I know one friend who got the vaccine so he could travel and a blood clot has formed in his leg and he needs surgery to remove it. Naturally, in Australia, the airlines have just come out and said it’s not true, you can fly if vaccinated. Of course, they are not interested in people’s safety – only staying in business. There have been recorded deaths from blood clots after being vaccinated without flying. Others have found that COVID deaths often involve blood clots. The UK Evening Standard reported that the risk of a blood clot when flying is the same for vaccinated or unvaccinated people.

As with everything else surrounding COVID, there is no real solid information and we are not likely to ever get there because the government is pushing the vaccine. Politicians will NEVER admit a mistake no matter how many people die. They cannot be prosecuted for they control the entire process and the media is of no help. For me, just means natural is better. If I never have to leave my house, fine. I have had enough of the crazy world anyhow. I will wait patiently for the mushroom cloud to remove the threat to humanity and signal it’s all clear. There is just nobody left to trust in any authority whatsoever.

[deadbear]

CDC info on blood clots
https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/dvt/travel.html

AOPA blood clot info (interesting read)
https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/medical-res ... lood-clots

https://www.aviationmedicine.com/articl ... hrombosis/

Incidence
The incidence of DVT is poorly defined in the population as a whole. Reported cases of DVT in the United States vary from 260,000 to 800,000 per year. Some researchers feel that one half to two thirds of cases go unreported or unrecognized each year. The British House of Lords Select Committee on Science and Technology Fifth Report on Air Travel and Health states that the incidence of DVT in the general (non-traveling) population is one case per thousand individuals per year. The report also states the increased risk associated with travel may be zero to 0.4 cases per thousand, although 75% of people who develop risk DVT during travel had one or more risk factors for the condition independent of travel.

These numbers would indicate that one thousand cases of DVT would develop annually per million travelers independent of their travel. Some estimates of DVT in the general population are up to 80% higher. Theoretically, zero to 400 additional cases of DVT per million people would develop because of air travel. The databases of the FAA and NTSB do not list thrombotic events involving a passenger, but newspapers and other articles have listed events involving DVT in both passengers and aircrew.

A 12 May 2001 study in Lancet by John Scurr of the University of London Hospital showed that of 200 people scanned before flight without blood clots in their legs, 10% had clots detected after flight. Note that the presence of clots does not equate to symptomatic DVT, and clots may dissolve spontaneously without the individual being aware of their presence.

Would be interesting to see if a new study will come out in the near future that does something similar to the 12 May 2001 study in the Lancet by John Scurr and compares the risk of the vaccinated vs unvaccinated on blood clots and air travel. Surprised to read the 10% number from 2001.

[GATRKGA]

I’ve got all the vaccines growing up and the required boosters.

How pilots who have to upkeep a medical have elected to volunteer for an emergency use vaccine, with its side effects to be seen, is beyond the definition of gambling to me.

And when you ask most of them, it’s all on a speculation that “you’ll PROBABLY need it” and because most of them didn’t have any side effects that they could feel, they feel safe. Dvt’s are silent killers and often career enders for you if caught late.

Air crew are exempt from needing vaccines for covid 19. And if you’re not, your employer can’t fire or dismiss you over a human rights or health issue.

Blood clots are already a problem for most pilots at one point or another, and if this new information is in fact true, it just goes to prove the losing gamble with your career/life over a probability that hasn’t even materialized.

Has anyone at Air Canada or Wj been mandated to get a vaccine to keep their jobs?

Thanks for posting this information.

[rooster]

I’ve got all the vaccines growing up and the required boosters.

How pilots who have to upkeep a medical have elected to volunteer for an emergency use vaccine, with its side effects to be seen, is beyond the definition of gambling to me.

And when you ask most of them, it’s all on a speculation that “you’ll PROBABLY need it” and because most of them didn’t have any side effects that they could feel, they feel safe. Dvt’s are silent killers and often career enders for you if caught late.

Air crew are exempt from needing vaccines for covid 19. And if you’re not, your employer can’t fire or dismiss you over a human rights or health issue.

Blood clots are already a problem for most pilots at one point or another, and if this new information is in fact true, it just goes to prove the losing gamble with your career/life over a probability that hasn’t even materialized.

Has anyone at Air Canada or Wj been mandated to get a vaccine to keep their jobs?

Thanks for posting this information.

Or you know, Sunwing, Transat, Flair, Porter, etc...

[photofly]

Air crew are exempt from needing vaccines for covid 19..

For now.

And if you’re not, your employer can’t fire or dismiss you over a human rights or health issue

If they can demonstrate genuine occupational requirement to be vaccinated, and you refuse, then you can be dismissed.

[sullecpt]

AC will require the shot. They will not be liable for potential side effects, and fire you if you don't obey. Absolute tyranny.

Sounds like a legit human rights issue to me. There is no long term data on this vaccine. I would get it if it were approved by the FDA, but right now you could have drastic side effects and there are no repercussions for the producer, or employer. No way am personally risking this yet. All those who have, good for you and I hope you remain healthy, thanks for doing your part..? I will take the wait and see approach and protect my career since I feel little risk to the virus itself due to my age and fitness. When there is more clear data and the results of longer term studies are in, lets go! Meanwhile I look forward to the condescending attitude to join team vaccine in the cockpit, its great CRM to attack peoples medical choices, eh?

[photofly]

AC will require the shot. They will not be liable for potential side effects, and fire you if you don't obey. Absolute tyranny.

But, at the moment they don’t require the shot, and it’s only your supposition that they will. So it’s a bit of a straw man to complain about tyranny, isn’t it?

[CL-Skadoo!]

Do you have any idea how many shots and pills I was required to take to fly all over Asia and Africa? None of which had the side effect of whining about tyranny on Avcanada.

[Inverted2]

The vaccines are not FDA or Health Canada approved yet. They are only approved for “emergency use” so for now I doubt they can force you to take the experimental vaccine if you don’t feel safe to do so. Very cleaver of them to mention “we are not legally responsible” if you take it and get serious side effects or die.

[shimmydampner]

Do you have any idea how many shots and pills I was required to take to fly all over Asia and Africa? None of which had the side effect of whining about tyranny on Avcanada.

All of which likely came with decades of research and data as to their effects on human beings.

[photofly]

All of which likely came with decades of research and data as to their effects on human beings.

Since he didn’t say which vaccinations he had, you couldn’t possibly comment on what research and data had been collected, or for how long, could you?

['97 Tercel]

Prob safe to assume

['97 Tercel]

Anyway, pandemic is over...the elderly are starting to die of old age again.


Next scary crisis....

[photofly]

Prob safe to assume

There’s a lot of assuming going on, on all sides. Disagreements on what can be assumed and what can’t are at the heart of all the bad-natured squabbling.

[shimmydampner]

All of which likely came with decades of research and data as to their effects on human beings.

Since he didn’t say which vaccinations he had, you couldn’t possibly comment on what research and data had been collected, or for how long, could you?

That's why I used the word "likely." Given whatever level of knowledge you may have regarding illnesses common to Africa and their respective preventative measures, do you think it's more likely that travellers are administered highly researched substances? Or do you think it's more likely that they're given something backed by less than a year's worth of research? How many unapproved vaccines do you think travellers to Africa are administered, on average? I will admit, I don't know for sure, but I'm curious. All I have is a hunch. If you have evidence that this happens regularly, it would be interesting to read.

[montado]

Anyway, pandemic is over...the elderly are starting to die of old age again.


Next scary crisis....

It’s hard to end a pandemic that didn’t really begin. I knew this pandemic was overblown as soon as politicians left the “we all need to be non partisan and work together” and switched gears to playing politics. It only took until mid may 2020 and everything started to become political. Trudeau out protesting with BLM, lol. Like who the @#$! shuts things down because an infectious disease then says we can make exceptions to protest certain things... lives matter but I guess black ones don’t during a pandemic? Italy started reporting on its findings and it was found that the average age of a covid death was older than the average age of death overall.

So now try to convince people the pandemic is over. If they had buy in through waves one, two and three, they all may as well commit to this and brace for four. If you used irrational thoughts to buy into the hysteria and you want to hold on to those beliefs as if they were rational, your pandemic will never end. These people will need to wear masks forever, and should never travel.

[photofly]

That's why I used the word "likely." Given whatever level of knowledge you may have regarding illnesses common to Africa and their respective preventative measures, do you think it's more likely that travellers are administered highly researched substances?

It's hard to imagine there have ever existed in the history of medicine any substances more highly researched than the various COVID19 vaccines at present. The entire world is doing nothing else but research, at present.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

It's hard to imagine there have ever existed in the history of medicine any substances more highly researched than the various COVID19 vaccines at present. The entire world is doing nothing else but research, at present.

The smallpox vaccine and the Bomb might have something to say about that.

[shimmydampner]

The entire world is doing nothing else but research, at present.

You're absolutely correct. We're all lab rats in the largest uninformed vaccine trial in history. They're finding issues with the vaccines after millions of people have been dosed. When you get your cocktail of preventative drugs before you go to Africa, those kinks have already been worked out and their short and long term effects on humans are well documented. You won't be coerced into being injected with an unapproved vaccine. A person can make a very informed decision on what they choose to put in their body. Clearly the same cannot be said for the various covid vaccines as issues first with VIPIT and now myocarditis are revealing themselves well after the horse is out of the proverbial barn.

[complexintentions]

It's hard to imagine there have ever existed in the history of medicine any substances more highly researched than the various COVID19 vaccines at present. The entire world is doing nothing else but research, at present.

The smallpox vaccine and the Bomb might have something to say about that.

A direct comparison of modern research methods to that of the smallpox and Manhattan Project era isn't really valid at all. Original "smallpox research" consisted of infecting people with cowpox to stimulate an immune response. Things have come a little ways since then. They mapped the genome of Covid-19 in less than 48 hours. Production of mRNA vaccines doesn't even need the actual live virus.

Which leads to the second point, this idea that "less than a year's research" has been done on these vaccines. What ignorant nonsense. To calculate the man-years of R&D of something you have to consider the total number of people working on something at any one time, the level of expertise being brought to bear, the financial resources being deployed to enable the latest, most advanced research techniques to proceed at the highest speed possible, and so on. It isn't like "10 months ago there was no vaccine, now there is, so that's a vaccine with 10 months of research". Good god.

The amount of sheer resources poured into these vaccines dwarfs any other pharmaceutical intervention in history. Period. Multiple teams of the top professionals in the fields of medicine, biology, virology, immunology, working on multiple types of vaccinations simultaneously, with limitless financial backing. Much of the tech was adopted from already-present flu vaccines. mRNA technology itself isn't "new", it's been around for over 30 years.

It's no miracle they developed something so "quickly", it would have been more miraculous for them not to have.

Sure, keep "waiting and seeing" but spoiler alert: vaccination numbers go up = infection and mortality rates go down. Same as every vaccine in history. I'm just curious, is there a number of day/months/years, or how many hundreds of millions or billions of people vaccinated with a positive outcome, that the people using this line have in mind where they'll decide it's good enough for them too?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/06/brazilian-town-experiment-shows-mass-vaccination-can-wipe-out-covid-19

And this was with the Chinese vaccine, and the crappier one at that. It's all about numbers, and even the lesser vax'es reduce them. What a shocker.

It's complete bullshit to claim previous vaccines are completely safe because they've been around longer. Small numbers of people have drastically bad reactions to vaccines all the time. And the Covid-19 vaccines have PLENTY of data to properly evaluate their safety and efficacy, "thanks" to the sheer numbers of both infected and vaccinated. The determination to cling to stats that show the side effects are statistically less than many commonly-taken drugs such as birth control pills, in the case of blood clots for example, is dishonestly alarmist. Context is everything: risk management is not risk elimination. I would have thought pilots, of all people, could grasp this basic distinction.

It's like we're racing backwards from the Enlightenment to only trust superstition and gossip. Where once we celebrated the achievements of humanity's best and brightest minds to solve medical disasters, now we're doubtful because, well, y'know /reasons. Huddled fearfully around our little glowing screens like we once did around fires in dirt huts. Amazing, really.

But hey I don't care. If vaccination becomes a requirement for employment, the doubters just open more opportunities for the rest of us.