In the ICUs, the unvaccinated are silent.

[dialdriver]

"How did it come to this? Was it fear of the vaccine? Or narcissism? Or are you simply another victim of misinformation? We want to scream. We want to shout. If it would make a difference'.

"When I see your listless body, I don't see politics. I see someone who needs my help. That's the reason we all chose to do this job. Let the protesters outside jeer and the haters online hate, and we'll meet them with a Ted Lasso-like kindness and unbreakable dedication to our patients — vaccinated or not".

"What kind of society have we become when charlatans on social media have good people willing to risk everything based solely on their manipulative words?"


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton ... -1.6171187

[rookiepilot]

Winner.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... ium=social

Alabama man dies after being turned away from 43 hospitals as covid-19 patients pack ICUs, family says.

But the my rights crowd….rules….

[McKinley]

I was going to be one of the first in line for the vaccine .. then I couldn’t get it as an aviation employee. ( I could as a bike shop employee ) WTF?

-why announce the “ new world order” and the “ great reset” during supposedly the biggest threat next to climate change to plague to world. Should I announce that I am going to “ reimagine an engine fire shut down drill” ?

Why keep big box stores open while small businesses die?

Why allow sugar to be consumed , obesity to rage, and pump people full of fear?

What about the impacts of restrictions ?

What about the cancel culture and massive suppression of free thought and information? / opposing views ?


Why not shut down travel to COVID hot zones when the pandemic first broke out? Instead, the government virtue signaled about “ racism” - talk about privilege !

What about the Wuhan virology theory ?

It’s not about narcissism .. it’s about looking around and noticing the incongruences and saying something isn’t right and wanting more time to make a decision.

[Schooner69A]

"...then I couldn’t get it as an aviation employee..."

Where?

When?

Hadn't heard that restriction...

[Conflicting Traffic]

I was going to be one of the first in line for the vaccine .. then I couldn’t get it as an aviation employee. ( I could as a bike shop employee ) WTF?

I guess your province did things differently. Where I am, it was health care workers first, then everyone else was phased in according to age. Being bitter about how your province did things is not a good reason to not get vaccinated.

-why announce the “ new world order” and the “ great reset” during supposedly the biggest threat next to climate change to plague to world. Should I announce that I am going to “ reimagine an engine fire shut down drill” ?

Because politicians never waste a good crisis, and the reset nonsense can be safely ignored. What does this have to do with (not) taking the vaccine?

Why keep big box stores open while small businesses die?

Because governments are run by politicians and they routinely do things out of incompetence. This shouldn't be news, and while it's certainly something to be angry about, it shouldn't influence your decision making RE the vaccine.

Why allow sugar to be consumed , obesity to rage, and pump people full of fear?

Sugar is enjoyable. It comes with long-term health consequences that people are aware of. Those consequences are not contagious. Same for obesity. Eating and relaxing is fun, so some people choose to do it despite the long term, non-contagious consequences. Some people have to do it because they have a job that involves long hours of sitting and they have bills to pay. Doesn't matter the reason, the consequences are known and not contagious. I'm not sure how any of this justifies not taking the vaccine.

What about the impacts of restrictions ?

You mean the restrictions that will now go on for much longer because of all the twats who are refusing the vaccine?

What about the cancel culture

I don't know. What about it? What does this have to do with the vaccine?

and massive suppression of free thought and information? / opposing views ?

What suppression? Not happening. At least not in the western world and in regards to anything COVID. I don't know if you're aware, but we just had a bunch of protests outside hospitals. If there was to be suppression of opposing views, I'd like to think those assholes would be the first to go.

Why not shut down travel to COVID hot zones when the pandemic first broke out? Instead, the government virtue signaled about “ racism” - talk about privilege !

Yep. The politicians f****d up. What else is new? Shut downs should have happened much faster, and probably should have been more drastic. I'm not sure how not taking the vaccine is going to fix that.

What about the Wuhan virology theory ?

The what? No such thing. There are some crackpots throwing around speculation and supposition. This does not constitute a theory. If at some point a lab leak is proven, that still doesn't mean you shouldn't take the vaccine.

It’s not about narcissism .. it’s about looking around and noticing the incongruences and saying something isn’t right and wanting more time to make a decision.

No, it's about confounding different issues -- some legitimate and some fictional -- and using them as pretext to do the wrong thing. Get vaccinated.

[photofly]

What suppression? Not happening. At least not in the western world and in regards to anything COVID. I don't know if you're aware, but we just had a bunch of protests outside hospitals. If there was to be suppression of opposing views, I'd like to think those assholes would be the first to go.

Ah, no, actually those those protests were actually arranged by big pharma and politicians, to make, uh, people who really know what's going on look bad. The people shouting at healthcare workers and blocking access to hospitals were paid actors and provocateurs pretending to be anti-vaxers.

You heard it here first.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Funny how the anti-vaxers never acknowledge the inconvenient fact that 90 % of the people in the ICU with COVID are unvaccinated despite that cohort only making up only 18 to 28 % of the population, depending on the province

I am fortunate enough to live in BC, where the government response while far from perfect, has done a reasonable effective job of managing the pandemic and therefore has preserved the capacity of the health care system. Contrast that with Alberta where government enabling of vaccine hesitancy has resulted in an overwhelmed heath care system. I can't imagine trying to deal with, for example, a new cancer diagnosis in Alberta today.

Unfortunately the anti-vax crowd are a relatively small minority that are getting disproportionate exposure to there ignorant and dangerous ideas fueled by an irresponsible media. However I sense a backlash building as most Canadians are tired of this groups actions resulting in the prolonging of COVID restrictions on everyone.

O'Toole was in a position to beat Trudeau until 2 days ago. His refusal to take a reasonable position on vaccine mandates will eliminate his chance to beat Trudeau and is IMO a manifestation of Canadians refusal to give any more influence to the anti-vaxers.

[nicklee3272]

Funny how the anti-vaxers never acknowledge the inconvenient fact that 90 % of the people in the ICU with COVID are unvaccinated despite that cohort only making up only 18 to 28 % of the population, depending on the province

I am fortunate enough to live in BC, where the government response while far from perfect, has done a reasonable effective job of managing the pandemic and therefore has preserved the capacity of the health care system. Contrast that with Alberta where government enabling of vaccine hesitancy has resulted in an overwhelmed heath care system. I can't imagine trying to deal with, for example, a new cancer diagnosis in Alberta today.

Unfortunately the anti-vax crowd are a relatively small minority that are getting disproportionate exposure to there ignorant and dangerous ideas fueled by an irresponsible media. However I sense a backlash building as most Canadians are tired of this groups actions resulting in the prolonging of COVID restrictions on everyone.

O'Toole was in a position to beat Trudeau until 2 days ago. His refusal to take a reasonable position on vaccine mandates will eliminate his chance to beat Trudeau and is IMO a manifestation of Canadians refusal to give any more influence to the anti-vaxers.

This is where they have us all fooled. 90% of icu patients may be unvaccinated, however, many of them got admitted for other health reasons and did not have covid symptoms. These health reasons may be why they didn't chance the jab. They later get tested and receive a positive result. Unfortunately, many were already going to die and when they do, they become another covid stat. Same as others who are admitted to hospital, eg. Mental health reasons with no covid symptoms but later get tested postive. They also become a stat. The numbers are manipulated to cause more fear and panic.

I've personally seen numerous patients in the e.r. showing up with reactions due to the jab. Doctors will not file a report with health canada as they are also controlled by their college. Health canada will not take any adverse reaction reports from the general public. So we do not have real numbers regarding reactions.

If vaccines are working, why is it that we are seeing 25% infection rates among the vaccinated and this number continues to climb. You can't blame the unvaccinated as the vaccinated also can get covid and transmit it.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Funny how the anti-vaxers never acknowledge the inconvenient fact that 90 % of the people in the ICU with COVID are unvaccinated despite that cohort only making up only 18 to 28 % of the population, depending on the province

I am fortunate enough to live in BC, where the government response while far from perfect, has done a reasonable effective job of managing the pandemic and therefore has preserved the capacity of the health care system. Contrast that with Alberta where government enabling of vaccine hesitancy has resulted in an overwhelmed heath care system. I can't imagine trying to deal with, for example, a new cancer diagnosis in Alberta today.

Unfortunately the anti-vax crowd are a relatively small minority that are getting disproportionate exposure to there ignorant and dangerous ideas fueled by an irresponsible media. However I sense a backlash building as most Canadians are tired of this groups actions resulting in the prolonging of COVID restrictions on everyone.

O'Toole was in a position to beat Trudeau until 2 days ago. His refusal to take a reasonable position on vaccine mandates will eliminate his chance to beat Trudeau and is IMO a manifestation of Canadians refusal to give any more influence to the anti-vaxers.

This is where they have us all fooled. 90% of icu patients may be unvaccinated, however, many of them got admitted for other health reasons and did not have covid symptoms. These health reasons may be why they didn't chance the jab. They later get tested and receive a positive result. Unfortunately, many were already going to die and when they do, they become another covid stat. Same as others who are admitted to hospital, eg. Mental health reasons with no covid symptoms but later get tested postive. They also become a stat. The numbers are manipulated to cause more fear and panic.

I've personally seen numerous patients in the e.r. showing up with reactions due to the jab. Doctors will not file a report with health canada as they are also controlled by their college. Health canada will not take any adverse reaction reports from the general public. So we do not have real numbers regarding reactions.

If vaccines are working, why is it that we are seeing 25% infection rates among the vaccinated and this number continues to climb. You can't blame the unvaccinated as the vaccinated also can get covid and transmit it.

OK why on July 1 was Alberta ICU admissions at normal levels and now they are overwhelmed with patients almost all of whom are have COVID and are unvaccinated ? Was there a sudden dramatic increase in people gravelly ill with diseases unrelated to COVID, or is it that unvaccinated people are much more likely to get sick enough to have to go to the hospital. To me the answer is obvious.

I have to say I just don't understand vaccine hesitancy. The vaccine is fully approved and after hundreds of million does has proven to be safe and effective.

The bottom line is simple. The minority of people not getting the vaccine are the reason why we can't get back to normal. Normal is where people get sick and then get better without having to go to the hospital or die. Get your shot !

[digits_]

I have to say I just don't understand vaccine hesitancy. The vaccine is fully approved and after hundreds of million does has proven to be safe and effective.

Short term you could claim that, but since the long term effects are still unknown, it doesn't matter if millions have been vaccinated. Even though I am fully vaccinated, I do understand vaccine hesitancy.

The mixing of the different shots only to raise the number of vaccinated people, with contradictory information, didn't do much to install confidence either. At the same time Europe was telling people to be very accurate in the time between 2 doses to improve efficiency and count it out to the day, I was given a 2 month(!) window by Canadian medical staff for my second shot.

The research claiming that mixed shots were more effective, started appearing after Canadians were told it wasn't an issue. Either Canada has some super cutting edge medical research going on, or the political pressure to get the number of vaccinated people up was so big that we were one of the first countries to mix.

AstraZeneca was also tested and safe, but then was not being used anymore because it was apparently not so safe after all.

[imjustlurking]

Let's correct some of the misinformation here.

The vast majority of people in hospital who have tested positive for COVID-19 (whether they are there for COVID related symptoms or not) are unvaccinated.


Source


"If you die from a heart attack, you will be added to the COVID-19 death toll."

False. The only reason why your death would be counted is if you tested positive for COVID-19 AND doctors (you know, the professionals) have determined that COVID-19 was a contributing factor to your death.

"The COVID-19 vaccine is not approved by the FDA"

Uh, who cares what the FDA says? We are in Canada and Canada has it's own health experts and agencies. The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, and Johnson & Johnson are all approved for use in humans (recently receiving their full approval).


"My rights are being infringed by forcing me to take the vaccine."

Nobody is forcing you to take the vaccine. You have the choice whether you want to take it or not. Your choice will influence whether you experience consequences such as a sore arm and tiredness for a day or two, or on the other side, not having a job. Several law firms have been hired by several different aviation worker organizations and they all have reported that the mandates will likely survive any court challenge and any effort to fight it in court would be a waste of resources.

[Conflicting Traffic]

This is where they have us all fooled.

Whoever "they" are, "they" don't have "us" fooled. "They" have you fooled.

90% of icu patients may be unvaccinated, however, many of them got admitted for other health reasons and did not have covid symptoms.

"Many"? How many? And are you claiming that they don't actually have COVID? If they're in ICU for COVID, it doesn't matter what their original complaint was, they have COVID.

These health reasons may be why they didn't chance the jab.

Approximately 1% of the population has a legitimate medical reason to not get vaccinated. For anyone not part of that ~1%, "health reasons" is not why they didn't get vaccinated.

They later get tested and receive a positive result.

Am I understanding you correctly? You seem to be saying that they don't get vaccinated, and then they later test positive. Surprise! Who would've thunk it!?!?!

Unfortunately, many were already going to die and when they do, they become another covid stat. Same as others who are admitted to hospital, eg. Mental health reasons with no covid symptoms but later get tested postive. They also become a stat.

We're all already going to die. But if we die prematurely due to COVID, we become part of the COVID stats. That's how it works. And testing positive, even if it doesn't kill us, also makes us part of the stats. That's exactly how stats are supposed to work.

The numbers are manipulated to cause more fear and panic.

Manipulated by who? What is your claim regarding what the numbers ought to be? Where's your evidence? I don't personally know anyone experiencing fear and panic. But I know lots of people (myself included) who are experiencing lots of frustration with the pro-plague crowd -- who do in fact seem to be experiencing fear and panic.

I've personally seen numerous patients in the e.r. showing up with reactions due to the jab.

Personally? As in: you work in an ER and get to observe events on a regular basis? How many is "numerous"? What were their symptoms? What does "numerous" translate to as a percentage of ER visits? As a percentage of vaccine recipients?

Doctors will not file a report with health canada as they are also controlled by their college.

Evidence? If you need to report an adverse event, here's where you go: https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... tions.html. It's amazing what you can find with 10 seconds and Google.

Health canada will not take any adverse reaction reports from the general public. So we do not have real numbers regarding reactions.

I find this unlikely. But in the event it is true, you can report provincially using the handy link I provided above.

If vaccines are working, why is it that we are seeing 25% infection rates among the vaccinated and this number continues to climb.

There hasn't been a 25% infection rate among the vaccinated. Where are you getting this nonsense? As of late August, Canada's cumulative number of infections was approximately 1.5M (https://covid19tracker.ca/). That's about 3.9% of the population. Now, that number has increased since then, and it's possible (likely?) that we're missing data due to a lack of testing. But even if we double that number, approximately 8% of the Canadian population has been infected at some point. At present, these infection are overwhelmingly in the unvaccinated. So ... 25%? No.

You can't blame the unvaccinated as the vaccinated also can get covid and transmit it.

Getting vaccinated means you are less likely to be symptomatic (coughing, sneezing, runny nose, etc. means you're spreading virus around). Getting vaccinated means spending less time ill and contagious. So yes, being vaccinated mean you are less contagious. Being vaccinated does in fact prevent transmission when it prevents you from getting sick in the first place. If you do get sick, being vaccinated doesn't prevent transmission, but it does reduce transmission. I understand that that distinction is lost on the pro-plaguers, but if I get COVID and I only spread it to one person instead of five, I call that a win.

Oh, and there's always the fact that getting vaccinated means that you are less likely to take an ICU bed from someone who just had a heart attack or a car accident. But hey, they're probably going to die anyway, so f***'em, amiright?

[photofly]

These health reasons may be why they didn’t chance the jab.

Approximately 1% of the population has a legitimate medical reason to not get vaccinated. For anyone not part of that ~1%, "health reasons" is not why they didn't get vaccinated.

Where did you get the 1% figure? I don’t think it’s anything like one hundredth that high.

Here’s some accurate advice on who qualifies for an exemption:
https://health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/program ... nation.pdf

There are no common medical conditions that would lead to exemption. In fact, the sicker you are generally, the *more* important it is to be vaccinated. The only exemptions really are for people who have a severe anaphylactic reaction to any of the vaccine components, and you’d only know that after a first dose.

[Capt. Underpants]

The only exemptions really are for people who have a severe anaphylactic reaction to any of the vaccine components, and you’d only know that after a first dose.

Actually, there are scratch tests available through an allergist that can detect an allergy to the vaccine components.

[Big Pistons Forever]

One of the many things surrounding the COVID debate that puzzles me is why there seems to be a significant number of pilots who are anti-vaxers. In general pilots are used to dealing with facts. V speeds for example aren't some guy on the internets' idea of how fast the airplane should fly they are flight test derived real factual numbers.

The amount of willful denial of the overwhelming advantage of COVID vaccination both at the individual and the societal level required to be an anti-vaxer seems strange to me for individuals that operate machinery governed by the laws of aerodynamics and physics.

It is like deciding to fly my standard tank Cessna 172 one thousand miles non stop over non land-able terrain because I saw on the internet some guy saying he had heard from another guy that that he had done it

[digits_]

One of the many things surrounding the COVID debate that puzzles me is why there seems to be a significant number of pilots who are anti-vaxers. In general pilots are used to dealing with facts. V speeds for example aren't some guy on the internets' idea of how fast the airplane should fly they are flight test derived real factual numbers.

The amount of willful denial of the overwhelming advantage of COVID vaccination both at the individual and the societal level required to be an anti-vaxer seems strange to me for individuals that operate machinery governed by the laws of aerodynamics and physics.

It is like deciding to fly my standard tank Cessna 172 one thousand miles non stop over non land-able terrain because I saw on the internet some guy saying he had heard from another guy that that he had done it

A lot of those numbers can be verified by the pilots themselves. And even then, a lot of pilots add extra knots to approach speeds, climb at different speeds than the manual etc.

Most of them also don't trust the performance numbers fully. I don't think anyone take off on a runway with the exact length as mentioned in the manual.

There is also hesitation to adopt new technologies. Glass cockpits were a fad, it took a long time for most pilots to accept them. Composite aircraft still have a bad name in certain pilot groups, although that group is slowly shrinking.

I don't think it is weird pilots are hesitant to get them injected with a product that has only been on the market for a year.

Another thought: how many pilots would trust the icing certification for a Caravan? At the time, it was added under big commercial pressure. Rushed and not properly designed. But it's certified. Will you fly a Caravan through ice?

It's hard to trust data generated under enormous political and social pressure.

[pelmet]

I have discovered in society that there are a lot of intelligent people with really stupid ideas. They may be good at their profession(or aspects of it), yet have these beliefs that cannot be changed even with obvious logic.

I have seen it on this very website repeatedly in another forum. it is like a part of the brain used for certain thinking functions is deficient, even in the face of the obvious. Once one realizes this, it explains a lot of what we see. It can be extremely frustrating being a logical person in this society.

[tbaylx]

One of the many things surrounding the COVID debate that puzzles me is why there seems to be a significant number of pilots who are anti-vaxers. In general pilots are used to dealing with facts. V speeds for example aren't some guy on the internets' idea of how fast the airplane should fly they are flight test derived real factual numbers.

The amount of willful denial of the overwhelming advantage of COVID vaccination both at the individual and the societal level required to be an anti-vaxer seems strange to me for individuals that operate machinery governed by the laws of aerodynamics and physics.

It is like deciding to fly my standard tank Cessna 172 one thousand miles non stop over non land-able terrain because I saw on the internet some guy saying he had heard from another guy that that he had done it

Simple, vaccines and vaccinations have become political and there are plenty or right leaning pilots. Its amazing how supposedly intelligent professionals can allow politics to overcome logic.

[rigpiggy]

Got the jab, then got the covid. It's a f@#$n flu, but lasted 5 days vs a normal 2-3 the whole house went down with it, little bastards India's were over it in 2-3 days. I also know several who passed of covid, however you won't hear about there comorbidities.

[deadbear]

https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-09-19- ... eople.html

One only has to look at the stats from the UK and Israel to see that this is a pandemic of the vaccinated.

Public health data: 80% of COVID-19 deaths in August were vaccinated people