Vaccines for kids near approval.

[montado]

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the ... -1.6185559

I have a few questions before I would decide to get kids vaccinated.

How many kids under 12 have died of covid in Canada?

What percentage of hospitalizations/ICU cases for covid were the under 12 age group?

I will need some data before I believe a fast vaccine approval for kids and getting those vaccines into arms is really necessary.

Thoughts from everyone else? Seems very low risk to get kids vaccinated, but also seems low risk to not get the vaccine for those under 12. Why do we need to be talked into this, just give us the data.

[photofly]

I heard that broadcast live yesterday. I’m not troubled by a “rapid” approval, but I also will wait to see the evidence before deciding whether to ask my children to be vaccinated.

[imjustlurking]

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the ... -1.6185559

I have a few questions before I would decide to get kids vaccinated.

How many kids under 12 have died of covid in Canada?

What percentage of hospitalizations/ICU cases for covid were the under 12 age group?

I will need some data before I believe a fast vaccine approval for kids and getting those vaccines into arms is really necessary.

Thoughts from everyone else? Seems very low risk to get kids vaccinated, but also seems low risk to not get the vaccine for those under 12. Why do we need to be talked into this, just give us the data.

It's interesting that you don't believe doctors, scientists, and epidemiologists who have significant experience in their fields, but you believe the facebook post that says that your rights are being stripped and the party leader (who failed to get a seat) who says that the vaccine kills people.

It is taking way too much effort not to express my negative feelings toward you.

[montado]

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the ... -1.6185559

I have a few questions before I would decide to get kids vaccinated.

How many kids under 12 have died of covid in Canada?

What percentage of hospitalizations/ICU cases for covid were the under 12 age group?

I will need some data before I believe a fast vaccine approval for kids and getting those vaccines into arms is really necessary.

Thoughts from everyone else? Seems very low risk to get kids vaccinated, but also seems low risk to not get the vaccine for those under 12. Why do we need to be talked into this, just give us the data.

It's interesting that you don't believe doctors, scientists, and epidemiologists who have significant experience in their fields, but you believe the facebook post that says that your rights are being stripped and the party leader (who failed to get a seat) who says that the vaccine kills people.

It is taking way too much effort not to express my negative feelings toward you.

What a straw man! Do you want to be the straw man king?

I posted a couple simple questions, I don’t know how you made up your shit post from my simple questions. Show me the data, it’s simple. I happen to believe the experts. One Ontario doctor presented data that shows if 70 percent of kids get covid, there would be the same number of covid deaths as flu deaths in the same age group from 2018. Deaths aren’t everything so I want more data to make a decision. So open to hear more.

I mean there’s a flu vaccine for kids, so a covid vaccine is not a radical idea. But will they make it mandatory, this is where I start to question things just to make that clear. Something tells me the public will demand it. That’s the clear direction we are headed. If it’s not mandatory lots of parents won’t vaccinate their kids. But if you don’t get your kids the flu vaccine why would you get the covid one, if the data shows the flu and covid are vastly similar risk for that age demographic.

[Aviatard]

“I am just asking questions”

[geodoc]

“I am just asking questions”

Otherwise described as "JAQ-ing Off".




.

[montado]

Here’s one you can all fap to.

https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/ ... ldren.html

Make it mandatory! Make it mandatory!

[Bede]

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the ... -1.6185559

I have a few questions before I would decide to get kids vaccinated.

How many kids under 12 have died of covid in Canada?

What percentage of hospitalizations/ICU cases for covid were the under 12 age group?

I will need some data before I believe a fast vaccine approval for kids and getting those vaccines into arms is really necessary.

Thoughts from everyone else? Seems very low risk to get kids vaccinated, but also seems low risk to not get the vaccine for those under 12. Why do we need to be talked into this, just give us the data.

I get the impression that you don’t understand how vaccination works on a population level.

Kids rarely have serious Covid complications. The idea is to reduce transmission so that eventually this virus goes the way of smallpox, or at minimum Influenza A.

[montado]

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the ... -1.6185559

I have a few questions before I would decide to get kids vaccinated.

How many kids under 12 have died of covid in Canada?

What percentage of hospitalizations/ICU cases for covid were the under 12 age group?

I will need some data before I believe a fast vaccine approval for kids and getting those vaccines into arms is really necessary.

Thoughts from everyone else? Seems very low risk to get kids vaccinated, but also seems low risk to not get the vaccine for those under 12. Why do we need to be talked into this, just give us the data.

I get the impression that you don’t understand how vaccination works on a population level.

Kids rarely have serious Covid complications. The idea is to reduce transmission so that eventually this virus goes the way of smallpox, or at minimum Influenza A.

Do you understand how natural immunity works? Why is natural immunity not accepted and only vaccination is the way.

Why is it you think it would be appropriate to vaccinate kids under 10, before high risk adults when the data shows the risks to kids is so small. Parts of Europe are currently debating whether its even morally correct to vaccinate kids because the risk/reward doesn't add up. Experts also know natural immunity is likely more effective than a vaccine. Lots of research coming out about this. If you want sources let me know, but its not hard to find on google.

I feel like I'm in agreement with most people here on 90 percent of things. I'm pro vaccine for those at risk, I don't think covid is a hoax, I think its appropriate to wear masks in certain circumstances.

Where I differ is the hysteria that seems to tip over the edge and where I begin to disagree and where I think things are completely idiotic are points such as:

Vaccine certificates, a waste of time. Taking something very low risk and making it a little less risky.
Vaccinating kids, might not be necessary and I'm conflicted. long covid seems to by a myth in kids and fatality is extremely low, natural immunity will be effective IMO.
Masks, throw the vaccinated a carrot, follow the science and tell the vaccinated you don't need to wear a mask unless you develop symptoms. what in idiot fauci was for that... I personally think this was the biggest misstep of policy and public messaging this pandemic. Its unlikely the masks have any positive effect on the extremely low risk vaccinated people. EVEN if covid spreads from the vaccinated, its very low, way less than the non vaxed, they could have just left that out. I feel like more of the unvax would have been like "shit if i dont have to wear a mask, ill get vaccinated" At least that was my thought. More than any policy at all, I just don't want to wear a mask, I don't give a shit about most of the rest, and it was my primary reason for getting vaccinated. For this I have strong resentment and find it infuriating. I don't know how the rest of you shrug your shoulders to it.

I think where I differ greatly from most, is after we were a couple months into covid I could see it was bad but this was not some crazy pandemic that would wipe out populations around the globe. So I accepted something will need to be done to make this lower risk, like get a vaccine out. So I thought once we have a vaccine available, covid is really not an issue anymore. But it seems like some fear and hysteria is still driving crazy policy. For example today on the radio the host said he would be uncomfortable with capacity limit increase at a jays game. Its currently capped at 15k. This to me is so retarded. Firstly, you need to be vaccinated and wear a mask to go to this event. Like how fucking risky can it be to go to a jays game? Why in the @#$! is there any micromanagement of capacity limits? They limit capacity but they close the 500 level and cram the 15k people into the same zones.

I probably have some things wrong, but is this not completely idiotic the rules imposed at a jays game for capacity limits. What is the difference if you open to full capacity if you are just going to cram everyone together no matter the capacity anyways? the people not going to the jays game because the sell out at low numbers will find other activities and they may spread covid there. we are literally micromanaged into a full on retard level of risk management. If you guys cant see this as idiotic, i don't know what gives. Complete covitard.

[Posthumane]

When evaluating a risk/reward ratio of a particular treatment population, if you only look at your own population for a risk signal (such as number of deaths) then you will always be treating the population after the outbreak has occurred. This is why the people developing flu vaccines every year look to see what strains are going around in other countries, so they have a better chance of catching the correct strains before they start causing significant damage in their own population. Likewise, if you're only looking at deaths that have occurred in Canada before making a decision on vaccination, you will only be able to vaccinate once a problem is underway rather than proactively.
Looking at places that are ahead of Canada on the outbreak curve (due to climate and other factors) could give a heads up as to what's coming. For example, Texas has been having an outbreak of late. They currently have 84 pediatric deaths to-date, with 28 of those being kids younger than 10. For reference, TX population is about 3/4 of Canada's. Now, is that a lot? It's more than flu, but at what point does it really become excessive? I've asked you before what numbers you would want to see in terms of pediatric deaths before you decided the risk was high enough to warrant vaccination, but you still have not answered.

[montado]

If my doctor says I should vaccinate my kids, that’s when I would vaccinate them.

8 kids died of the flu in 2018 in Ontario in the 14 and under age group. This is with flu vaccines available to that age group. Looks like covid is about on par with the flu even with no vaccine. Are your death numbers for the entire pandemic, so 18 months? Ontario is 14 million, texas is 29? My mental math says on a cases by cases basis covid is not as dangerous as the flu in the under 12 age group. But the fact covid spreads so fast and more kids will get covid than the flu also needs to be considered. Basically it’s already been broken down that if 70 percent of kids get covid this winter, the data shows deaths would be par with flu deaths. I took on dr. David Fisman with some questions when he presented this data and he has since stepped down from the science table. Oops! Looks like I struck a nerve with him.

Most people I know can’t wait to vaccinate their kids. I think my kids can wait.

[photofly]

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the ... -1.6185559

I have a few questions before I would decide to get kids vaccinated.

How many kids under 12 have died of covid in Canada?

What percentage of hospitalizations/ICU cases for covid were the under 12 age group?

I will need some data before I believe a fast vaccine approval for kids and getting those vaccines into arms is really necessary.

Thoughts from everyone else? Seems very low risk to get kids vaccinated, but also seems low risk to not get the vaccine for those under 12. Why do we need to be talked into this, just give us the data.

I get the impression that you don’t understand how vaccination works on a population level.

Kids rarely have serious Covid complications. The idea is to reduce transmission so that eventually this virus goes the way of smallpox, or at minimum Influenza A.

If kids only rarely have complications from COVID then the permanent side effects of the vaccine have to be correspondingly more unlikely than in adults. It’s ethically unacceptable to vaccinate children (and expose them to the tiny but non-zero risk of adverse outcomes) only to protect others - the vaccine must statistically benefit the recipient directly.

[montado]

I would like to think you are right photofly but the precident is already being set. All we have to say is that kids are a vector of transmission, and they are the reason hospitals are overwhelmed. Then we can use children as pawns and force vaccinations even if the risks of the vaccine is the same as the disease. All this for "the greater good".

I could see that happen.we have already decidedto make life more difficult for adults who don't want a vaccine. Same thing will happen with kids if things don't change soon. As long as we have 4th wave fear,everything is fair game!

[Posthumane]

Yes, the 84 pediatric deaths was from the whole of the reporting period in Texas, although 27 of them were in the last month (6 in the under 10 group). I'm curious where you get your flu death number from, as most sources report influenza and pneumonia from all causes together.
The "70% infection rate leading to 7 deaths in Ontario assessment" was based on the strains that infected students during the last school season. The rate with the current variants has not yet been tested en masse in Canada.

[digits_]

If kids only rarely have complications from COVID then the permanent side effects of the vaccine have to be correspondingly more unlikely than in adults. It’s ethically unacceptable to vaccinate children (and expose them to the tiny but non-zero risk of adverse outcomes) only to protect others - the vaccine must statistically benefit the recipient directly.

Why make a special case for kids?

Most adults also don't have any bad reactions to covid, yet the government makes it mandatory for federal workers.

Why make a distinction based on age, vs on physical condition? If the goal is to protect grandma and other vulnerable people, then why *not* vaccinate kids, even though they don't benefit kids directly, just like it doesn't benefit a lot of adults directly either?

[photofly]

Double post

[photofly]

If kids only rarely have complications from COVID then the permanent side effects of the vaccine have to be correspondingly more unlikely than in adults. It’s ethically unacceptable to vaccinate children (and expose them to the tiny but non-zero risk of adverse outcomes) only to protect others - the vaccine must statistically benefit the recipient directly.

Why make a special case for kids?

Most adults also don't have any bad reactions to covid, yet the government makes it mandatory for federal workers.

There’s no distinction for kids. But the evidence is that for adults long term adverse reactions to COVID are way more frequent and severe than long term reactions to the vaccines. The vaccine is a good bet for adults, so it’s not unethical for adults to be persuaded to have it. I’m not sure it’s a good bet for children. To be clear, I’m not saying it isn’t, I just haven’t seen evidence.

Vaccines have to be safer than the disease in any population to whom they’re given. It’s pretty obvious.

In the long term, there is an argument that since children will become adults, they should be vaccinated. But that’s somewhat subtle. I think I’d like some longer term data about COVID trends before accepting that.

[TG]

The ideas are:

-To reduce transmission and have it goes the way of Smallpox (Like mentioned by Bede)
-To reduce transmission before given a chance to mutate.
-To have this group being part of an "ensemble" trying to beat this virus.
Patching a road here and there can work so long. Sometime you have to resurface it and that's what they are trying to do.


Montado:

you don't need to wear a mask unless you develop symptoms.

-Infected people appear to be most infectious just before they develop symptoms.
-Asymptomatic people can also transmit the virus.
That's why they came up with tests and travel's quarantine otherwise there would be none of that sh!t going on.

As much as I hate wearing a mask, I will do it when situation warrants it/When imposed.