Dedicated to any misinformed moderators

Covid related topics that are connected to travel or the aviation industry.
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imjustlurking
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Re: Dedicated to any misinformed moderators

Post by imjustlurking »

CYERCaptainPooping wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:09 pm Or like I have been told by others. The vaccine hesitant would be lining up for vaccines if Covid was more deadly. No shit! Happy to get my polio vaccine, tetanus shot etc. If I had to draw diseases from a hat I’d be praying for the common cold or Covid.

It’s absurd this is still high ranking media garbage. Still can’t figure out how the elderly got vaccinated and we still haven’t moved on. Maybe people just love a reason to virtu signal with masks and vaccine passports.
Once again you ignore the big picture.

Hospitals. People go there when they can't breathe. COVID isn't extremely dangerous on it's own, but considering how quickly it spreads, the hospitals get overwhelmed quickly. That is when people die.

Image
https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations

As we can see, the unvaccinated account for the vast majority of hospitalized COVID cases whereas they account for a small minority of the total population.
ICU resources and staffing were not sufficient during COVID-19 surges. In May 2021, at the peak of wave 3 the number of adult patients requiring invasive mechanical ventilation (IMV) in Ontario ICUs was 180% of the pre-pandemic historic average.
Recent modelling suggests that there may be an increased number of patients with CRCI alongside influenza over the 2021/2022 winter months, driving an increase in potential ICU admissions. There is a growing ICU staffing shortage with increases in nurse vacancy rates in particular across the provinces’ ICUs. Burnout, which has been exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic and in particular impacts nurses, is a significant contributor to staffing shortages.
https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/science ... -pandemic/

Let's use an analogy here... people are being pushed out of airplanes. It is not that risky when there are enough parachutes. Once we run out of parachutes (no more ICU space), people start getting seriously injured and dying.

You may think that my analogy is absurd, but that is how many of us feel when we see people arguing the narrow point that COVID itself isn't that dangerous to most individuals.
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photofly
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Re: Dedicated to any misinformed moderators

Post by photofly »

Vaticinator wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:14 pm

I don’t understand why the lack of absolute protection, is used as an argument that vaccines are of no use at all. It seems so trivially obvious that some (a lot) of protection is a very helpful thing.
I wholeheartedly agree with that statement. But if your goal is to persuade someone who is hesitant that they should get vaccinated for altruistic reasons, telling them that it will prevent some, but not all transmission, is going to get you nowhere.
I don't see why it should "get me nowhere". Telling people it will prevent a lot (but not every single case) of transmission seems to be a winning argument to me.
You're telling them that it offers an undetermined amount of protection, to other people who are presumably already as protected as they can be through vaccination, against a virus that is statistically of very low risk to begin with.
The amount of protection isn't undetermined, the people who are as protected as they can be would still appreciate not having to have that protection tested by having others around them infected, and most of us don't think it's that low a risk; certainly we think it's sufficiently high risk to be worth going to a lot of trouble to avoid infection.

There are people who aren't going to get vaccinated, ever. And there are people who are persuadable. It's worth trying to persuade.
This approach is ineffective to the point of being pointless.
So you say, but I don't know what basis you have for asserting that as a fact, if in fact you have any basis at all. I believe there's a lot of evidence that a sufficient number of people are persuaded to get vaccinated by rational discussion to make it worthwhile.
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digits_
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Re: Dedicated to any misinformed moderators

Post by digits_ »

photofly wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:31 pm and most of us don't think it's that low a risk; certainly we think it's sufficiently high risk to be worth going to a lot of trouble to avoid infection.
Is that the general consensus in your area? Honest question.

I have only met 1 person who was afraid of catching covid, and that's because she has a serious form of asthma. Other than that, even the pro vax people I've encountered are really not concerned about catching it. Let alone go through trouble to avoid infection. The general feeling I have here is that people try to follow the rules because they are rules, but are honestly not worried about covid.

The population density in Toronto or Vancouver vs rural prairies may influence people otherwise of course.
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photofly
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Re: Dedicated to any misinformed moderators

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digits_ wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:49 pm Is that the general consensus in your area? Honest question.
Yes. Most of my immediate family are older people, and are waaaaaay beyond keen to do anything and everything to avoid getting sick with COVID. They see the restrictions and precautions we are currently being asked to follow as probably the absolute minimum sensible actions that society should follow.

These are well educated professionals, some working, some retired, some of whom worked for law enforcement, some in healthcare and allied professions, and who are used to judging personal risk, and who run across a wide spectrum of political opinions.
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Bingo Fuel
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Re: Dedicated to any misinformed moderators

Post by Bingo Fuel »

CYERCaptainPooping wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:09 pm The vaccine hesitant would be lining up for vaccines if Covid was more deadly.
This is what I don't understand. Most who are anti-jab agree that COVID is not a risk to them.

But then those same people will claim that the vaccine is deadly.

Why? I haven't seen any statistics that prove that the vaccine is more dangerous than the virus.

If the virus isn't an issue, and the vaccine is less dangerous than the virus, then why the fear about the jab?
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Re: Dedicated to any misinformed moderators

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photofly wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:31 pm
Vaticinator wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:14 pm

I don’t understand why the lack of absolute protection, is used as an argument that vaccines are of no use at all. It seems so trivially obvious that some (a lot) of protection is a very helpful thing.
I wholeheartedly agree with that statement. But if your goal is to persuade someone who is hesitant that they should get vaccinated for altruistic reasons, telling them that it will prevent some, but not all transmission, is going to get you nowhere.
I don't see why it should "get me nowhere". Telling people it will prevent a lot (but not every single case) of transmission seems to be a winning argument to me.
You're telling them that it offers an undetermined amount of protection, to other people who are presumably already as protected as they can be through vaccination, against a virus that is statistically of very low risk to begin with.
The amount of protection isn't undetermined, the people who are as protected as they can be would still appreciate not having to have that protection tested by having others around them infected, and most of us don't think it's that low a risk; certainly we think it's sufficiently high risk to be worth going to a lot of trouble to avoid infection.

There are people who aren't going to get vaccinated, ever. And there are people who are persuadable. It's worth trying to persuade.
This approach is ineffective to the point of being pointless.
So you say, but I don't know what basis you have for asserting that as a fact, if in fact you have any basis at all. I believe there's a lot of evidence that a sufficient number of people are persuaded to get vaccinated by rational discussion to make it worthwhile.
That is the issue Vaticanator is attempting to point out. It doesn’t matter what you consider a winning argument. It matters what those you are trying to convince consider a winning argument. Those out there who are still not vaccinated have heard that argument and haven’t been persuaded. Time to change tactics.

Disclosure: I am vaccinated, pro Vaccine, but anti mandate.
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photofly
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Re: Dedicated to any misinformed moderators

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I agree, but choose to look at it the other way around. If the argument wasn’t working it would obviously no longer be used. Since it *is* still being used, it must be working.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Dedicated to any misinformed moderators

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“30 year veteran, including three tours in Afghanistan”.

So?

I don’t give a sh—.

Are you saying you have a greater voice than me, or anyone else, without those three tours? Is that the only way anyone “serves” out there?

Are you a better person? A morally superior person? How exactly did that serve your country selflessly in a way that benefits the whole world?

Defend that. Anyone.

And being An airline pilot sure as heck doesn’t give you a voice any more than being a Greyhound bus driver. Same to me. Bus drivers have lives in their hands every day too.

And they don’t get paid 250 large on autopilot to HKG, while playing grab-ass with the FA of the month.

Get over yourself.
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CYERCaptainPooping
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Bingo Fuel wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:27 pm
CYERCaptainPooping wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:09 pm The vaccine hesitant would be lining up for vaccines if Covid was more deadly.
This is what I don't understand. Most who are anti-jab agree that COVID is not a risk to them.

But then those same people will claim that the vaccine is deadly.

Why? I haven't seen any statistics that prove that the vaccine is more dangerous than the virus.

If the virus isn't an issue, and the vaccine is less dangerous than the virus, then why the fear about the jab?

It’s low risk pushing a grocery cart through the store. It’s very low risk to wear a helmet while you push a cart through the store. This is what I don’t get, why doesn’t everyone just wear a helmet while they push a grocery cart through a store. Very few people have a jar of pickles fall on their head, but it could happen. We should all just wear helmets. We should mandate helmets. We should make kids also wear helmets at home while their parents are shopping because you also never know, the parent could come home and drop the pickle jar on their kids. In fact if we don’t mandate helmet wearing while walking ICUS could fill up.

There’s how many Covid cases in ICUs right now? 165 in Ontario. Wowzers! Shut Ontario down! 165 is like a tsunami pandemic wave! :rolleyes: believe it or not there’s way more risky things in life than not getting a Covid vaccine, and things that lead you to the ICU. You are more likely to end up in the ICU riding a dirt bike, going for a swim among many other risky activities.


It’s more the principal of it. Some people believe we should have choice to a certain extent. I’ll get the vaccine when they outlaw abortions except for cases where it’s considered medically necessary. Why are people allowed to abort babies for non medical reasons without consequences? If I owned a restaurant I would ban anyone who had an abortion. I want to see your nobortion passport if you want to enter.
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photofly
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I believe there are, or were, about 2000 intensive care beds in Ontario. That’s it. 165 filled from one disease is huge. Without COVID measures that number could be three, four, five times higher. And we’d have huge problems for your occasional dirt-bike rider or swimmer who need ICU care.

Empty ICU beds have to be reserved for people undergoing routine surgery, in case things don’t go as planned. If there isn’t an empty bed to reserve, the surgery is cancelled.

I doubt there are more than two beds province-wide occupied by anyone who fell off a dirt bike at any one time. If at any time 165 beds were occupied by dirt-bike riders, dirt bikes would (rightly) be outlawed faster than you can say “go get vaccinated”.
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imjustlurking
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Re: Dedicated to any misinformed moderators

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rookiepilot wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:04 pm “30 year veteran, including three tours in Afghanistan”.
They should be used to doing as they are told for the betterment of the collective.
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imjustlurking
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CYERCaptainPooping wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:35 pm It’s low risk pushing a grocery cart through the store. It’s very low risk to wear a helmet while you push a cart through the store. This is what I don’t get, why doesn’t everyone just wear a helmet while they push a grocery cart through a store. Very few people have a jar of pickles fall on their head, but it could happen. We should all just wear helmets. We should mandate helmets. We should make kids also wear helmets at home while their parents are shopping because you also never know, the parent could come home and drop the pickle jar on their kids. In fact if we don’t mandate helmet wearing while walking ICUS could fill up.

There’s how many Covid cases in ICUs right now? 165 in Ontario. Wowzers! Shut Ontario down! 165 is like a tsunami pandemic wave! :rolleyes: believe it or not there’s way more risky things in life than not getting a Covid vaccine, and things that lead you to the ICU. You are more likely to end up in the ICU riding a dirt bike, going for a swim among many other risky activities.


It’s more the principal of it. Some people believe we should have choice to a certain extent. I’ll get the vaccine when they outlaw abortions except for cases where it’s considered medically necessary. Why are people allowed to abort babies for non medical reasons without consequences? If I owned a restaurant I would ban anyone who had an abortion. I want to see your nobortion passport if you want to enter.
Ah, I see... you demand a choice but you don't want women to be able to choose.

Here's the deal... you have a choice. You do not need to get vaccinated. You can choose to hold out. Your choices have consequences.

Women have a choice. They do not need to keep a fetus to term. They can choose to terminate the pregnancy. The difference is, they tend to listen to their doctors about the consequences before they make the choice.
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‘Bob’ wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:53 pm To Greg Hill.. if this meme is even real:

1 Canada is a secular state with separation between church and state. Freedom isn’t given by god or any other fictional entity. And in places where they are not separate, they are among the most oppressive regimes in the world. Maybe you’ve heard of one? It starts with “A”.

2 Your personal freedoms do not guarantee you a chosen vocation. Try and keep your job without doing a medical exam. Same thing.

3 Your service, experience, and skills are impressive, but irrelevant. They do not give you a free pass. You are replaceable and will be replaced with almost nobody else knowing or caring about your shortsighted actions. Part of “dedication to your employer’s success” is following government mandates.

And part of being a veteran is setting an example. You were willing to die for a jingoistic US led war after probably receiving a cocktail of drugs… but not get a simple vaccine?

4 What’s interesting is that for an issue to polarize, there has to be two participants. Stop fighting vaccine mandates and spreading misinformation, and the polarization goes away. There was no polarization when WWII veterans rolled up their sleeves and did their civic duty to get small pox and polio vaccines with mercury in them. They are going to come back from the dead and smack you upside the head.
You have a way about you, Bob. I do agree 100% with what you said.

It's "funny" how people are up in arms saying "Oh, this has never happened before; a government telling me what to do and putting my life at risk".
Ah, in the 40s young men and women were fighting a war in Europe and most of them had no choice but to go there, many of which died for "King and country"... (not that I'm comparing getting a vaccine to going to war)...

Yes, the government CAN and WILL tell you what to do. Whether you like it or not, whether it's right or wrong is a whole different debate, which I have no desire to get into. Government mandates are nothing new.
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The amount of protection isn't undetermined, the people who are as protected as they can be would still appreciate not having to have that protection tested by having others around them infected, and most of us don't think it's that low a risk; certainly we think it's sufficiently high risk to be worth going to a lot of trouble to avoid infection.
...
Most of my immediate family are older people, and are waaaaaay beyond keen to do anything and everything to avoid getting sick with COVID. They see the restrictions and precautions we are currently being asked to follow as probably the absolute minimum sensible actions that society should follow.

These are well educated professionals, some working, some retired, some of whom worked for law enforcement, some in healthcare and allied professions, and who are used to judging personal risk, and who run across a wide spectrum of political opinions.
Fair enough. You and your family are certainly entitled to your opinions on the level of risk involved. Everyone's appetite for risk is different.

The epidemiological data available on government websites is interesting though. People who are over 80 years of age should be very concerned about covid, as they are by far the highest risk group. (They, as a cohort, are also almost exclusively over the average life span of 81, and so should be concerned about just about everything.) In all instances of covid infection in that age group, it proved fatal 22.9% of the time. That's a huge percentage. In the 70-79 group, that drops to 8.5%. Still very concerning. The 60-69 group death rate drops to 2.2% which is still not insignificant. Under 60, that rate drops below 0.6% for each decade group, but averages 0.1%. Now, that's pretty low. But thankfully we have the vaccines, and fairly recent data from a 120 day study tracking it's effect on reducing negative outcomes by age group. So we know, if you get fully vaccinated that those numbers drop to the following:
80+ - 2.5%
70-79 - 0.4%
60-69 - 0.1%
50-59 - 0.02%
40-49 - 0.02%
And under 40, it's a slam dunk - 0.0%

Clearly the vaccines are very effective at reducing negative outcomes. (The same holds true for ICU admissions, I just didn't want to bog down the post with too many numbers.) 95.5% of Canada's population, if vaccinated, could have a less than 0.5% chance of dying from covid, if contracted. That's essentially the entire population who are under the average life span. Those under 70 (87.3% of the population) will enjoy a 0.1% chance of dying from covid if contracted.

To me, that presents a very low risk value for a huge majority of the population. Personally, I'm fine with my 0.02% risk of death from covid. But we haven't yet addressed the reduction in transmission afforded by the vaccines. And on that, I was wrong when I said it was an undetermined amount. I managed to dig up a study out of the Netherlands that puts transmission reduction at 71%. At the moment, 89% of Canadians over the age of 12 have had at least one dose, presumably with the intent of becoming fully vaccinated. So if would take 100% of the population to reach the max of 71% reduction, 89% of the population puts us effectively at 63% transmission reduction currently, meaning there is only another possible 8% to be gained. So how much risk reduction is there to be gained by mandating 100% compliance?
80+ - 0.2% (36 fewer deaths)
70-79 - 0.03% (2 fewer deaths)
60-69 - 0.008% (0.2 fewer deaths)
50-59 - 0.002% (0.03 fewer deaths)
40-49 - 0.002% (0.03 fewer deaths)
< 40 - 0%

Now, I recognize that this is an oversimplification of a very complex situation, but the point is that by the time we factor in the already very low personal risk if vaccinated, we're talking about very small fractions of a percent in reduction of overall risk to be gained. Consider that the chance of a serious negative reaction from a vaccine in Canada is 0.01%. You're asking people to take on a greater personal risk to themselves than the decrease in risk that doing so would impart to most Canadians. And who is being selfish?
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CYERCaptainPooping
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Post by CYERCaptainPooping »

photofly wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:24 pm I believe there are, or were, about 2000 intensive care beds in Ontario. That’s it. 165 filled from one disease is huge. Without COVID measures that number could be three, four, five times higher. And we’d have huge problems for your occasional dirt-bike rider or swimmer who need ICU care.

Empty ICU beds have to be reserved for people undergoing routine surgery, in case things don’t go as planned. If there isn’t an empty bed to reserve, the surgery is cancelled.
That is actually not huge, it would be common during flu season to see similar numbers of flu/pneumonia/respiratory virus cases filling hospitals. This is not a covid problem, it has always been a flu season problem.
photofly wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:24 pm I doubt there are more than two beds province-wide occupied by anyone who fell off a dirt bike at any one time. If at any time 165 beds were occupied by dirt-bike riders, dirt bikes would (rightly) be outlawed faster than you can say “go get vaccinated”.
Maybe dirt bikes is not the best example, because very few people dirt bike and do extreme sports... so lets look at a common activity, swimming.

https://www.cdc.gov/drowning/facts/index.html

In the United States:

More children ages 1–4 die from drowning than any other cause of death except birth defects.
For children ages 1–14, drowning is the second leading cause of unintentional injury death after motor vehicle crashes.1

Every year in the United States there are an estimated:

3,960* fatal unintentional drownings, including boating-related drowning—that is an average of 11 drowning deaths per day.
8,080† nonfatal drownings—that is an average of 22 nonfatal drownings per day.


For every child who dies from drowning, another eight receive emergency department care for non-fatal drowning.1
More than 40% of drownings treated in emergency departments require hospitalization or transfer for further care (compared with 8% for all unintentional injuries).1
Drowning injuries can cause brain damage and other serious outcomes, including long-term disability.3-5

Should we ban swimming and swimming pools?
imjustlurking wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:32 pm Ah, I see... you demand a choice but you don't want women to be able to choose.
This was not my point. My point was we should be consistent. If you demand I get vaccinated or else have consequences, then I should be able to make similar demands. I am happy to give everyone choice. Abortion is not my choice, but I am okay with staying the @#$! out of other peoples lives. If you want an abortion, and can find someone to preform it, its not my business as far as I'm concerned.
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photofly
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CYERCaptainPooping wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:53 am
photofly wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:24 pm I believe there are, or were, about 2000 intensive care beds in Ontario. That’s it. 165 filled from one disease is huge. Without COVID measures that number could be three, four, five times higher. And we’d have huge problems for your occasional dirt-bike rider or swimmer who need ICU care.

Empty ICU beds have to be reserved for people undergoing routine surgery, in case things don’t go as planned. If there isn’t an empty bed to reserve, the surgery is cancelled.
That is actually not huge, it would be common during flu season to see similar numbers of flu/pneumonia/respiratory virus cases filling hospitals. This is not a covid problem, it has always been a flu season problem.
photofly wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:24 pm I doubt there are more than two beds province-wide occupied by anyone who fell off a dirt bike at any one time. If at any time 165 beds were occupied by dirt-bike riders, dirt bikes would (rightly) be outlawed faster than you can say “go get vaccinated”.
Maybe dirt bikes is not the best example, because very few people dirt bike and do extreme sports... so lets look at a common activity, swimming.

https://www.cdc.gov/drowning/facts/index.html

In the United States:

More children ages 1–4 die from drowning than any other cause of death except birth defects.
For children ages 1–14, drowning is the second leading cause of unintentional injury death after motor vehicle crashes.1

Every year in the United States there are an estimated:

3,960* fatal unintentional drownings, including boating-related drowning—that is an average of 11 drowning deaths per day.
8,080† nonfatal drownings—that is an average of 22 nonfatal drownings per day.


For every child who dies from drowning, another eight receive emergency department care for non-fatal drowning.1
More than 40% of drownings treated in emergency departments require hospitalization or transfer for further care (compared with 8% for all unintentional injuries).1
Drowning injuries can cause brain damage and other serious outcomes, including long-term disability.3-5

Should we ban swimming and swimming pools?
But your decision to go swimming doesn’t increase my risk of ending up in hospital. For COVID, no man is an island, as Donne put it. If drowning was contagious then yes, swimming would quite rightly have been banned decades ago.
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CYERCaptainPooping
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photofly wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:23 am But your decision to go swimming doesn’t increase my risk of ending up in hospital. For COVID, no man is an island, as Donne put it. If drowning was contagious then yes, swimming would quite rightly have been banned decades ago.
If I'm not vaccinated this has very little change in risk to whether you would get covid from me. The vaccine studies shows it may reduce the risk of transmission. Its like saying something very low risk is now even a little less risk. You might even say statistically insignificant. The best way to protect yourself, is to get the vaccine. What other people do makes very little change in risk.

So then you will beat around the bush and talk about hospitals being full. Well if covid taking ICU beds is a risk to you, then surely swimming is also taking ICU beds.

If ICU beds is an issue, we could free up more hospital beds if we prevented kids drowning rather than vaccinate them. The data clearly shows for kids drowning is the bigger issue than covid.

This doesn't boil down to science, facts and data. Everyone is just delusional. They accept drowning, the flu, cancer, and heart disease as a normal part of life. And then covid, is not a normal part of life.. If more kids are in hospital from a near drowning, you would say well that's just normal, noting more needs to be done because that's just the way it is. But every single of the very few kids who get hospitalized with covid is not normal.
Panic!, PANDEMIC!!!

Never mind that covid deaths just took away from flu deaths. Remember "no one died of the flu in 2020". All these covid deaths were people likely to die of something very soon. This was proven by the lack of excess deaths. When you normalize the whole situation, covid is not nearly as bad as it was made to be. Fear Fear Fear. Your arguments are lame. No one should care if people get vaccinated, no one should care if you wear a mask, everyone should do what works for them.
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How stupid and contradictory can people get...

"Look at hospital cases! Its mostly the unvaccinated!"

Yet they say people not getting vaccinated is a risk to them, when they are vaccinated. Dumb Da Dumb Dumb Dumb. We need a south park episode like the Mormon one about covid restrictions... "And then god said wear a cloth mask while you walk from the treadmill to the elliptical, then you can remove it, and you will stop covid" Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb....

"If you don't get vaccinated hospitals will be full and that's a risk to me"

Sure hospitals get full every flu season, currently total Covid ICU cases represent less than 10 percent of our ICU capacity. Other respiratory illnesses are similar.

"without restrictions this would be 3-4x worse"

Where's the proof of that? We have lots of mock restrictions in place... for example in my region, kids grade 2 and under don't need to wear masks at school. Show me the data on covid cases in the different age groups. Surely if the kids in grade 3 wear masks and the kids in grade 2 don't, covid should be spreading way worse in grade 2 classrooms. Oh wait, people don't want the data... such a logical way to compare whether measures work yet no one wants to show it... top secret.. probably doesn't give the answer you all want to hear. So many fake measures... wear a mask in the restaurant then take it off when you sit down :lol: Yeah as if I'm convinced these measures made things 3-4x better than without them.

How about the fact the faster this spreads and people have natural or vaccine immunity the faster this is all over. Let it spread among the kids now and as adults covid wont be an issue for them. This whole idea of shielding us from every threat just makes us more vulnerable. Weak pansy ass generation of fear babies.

Dr Fauci lied to everyone and told them the vaccine will stop transmission, and now the vaccinated are all masking up because guess what! they still spread covid!

You all have one contradictory religious belief after another. Get your damn story straight. Your 4 loser lines of why people should get vaccinated are completely dumb. The only reason one should get vaccinated is if they want to protect themselves from covid. That's it. They should look at the risk benefit, and make a decision. All your other nonsense is just noise, making shit up, being illogical, being contradictory and mostly anti science. The vaccine is probably a good choice for most people, its very low risk, the risk of covid is probably more... no different than the flu shot right? so whats the big deal... do you cry babies not want to fly with someone without a flu shot??? dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb
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rookiepilot
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Re: Dedicated to any misinformed moderators

Post by rookiepilot »

CYERCaptainPooping wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:32 am whats the big deal... do you cry babies not want to fly with someone without a flu shot??? dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb[/b]
The only cry baby I see is the entitled airline pilot who was quoted at the beginning of this thread, because he's "special". Crying to the media.

I thought that was lame when those kicked off flights by the Swat team cry to the media. OK for whiny captains.

Like the asshole captain who cut in front of me at the Nexus line. Cost me 60 seconds, but it was the smug backward look said "I'm far more important than anyone". It's the exact same attitude here.

You all wonder why their is no sympathy?
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CYERCaptainPooping
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Re: Dedicated to any misinformed moderators

Post by CYERCaptainPooping »

rookiepilot wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:21 am
CYERCaptainPooping wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:32 am whats the big deal... do you cry babies not want to fly with someone without a flu shot??? dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb[/b]
The only cry baby I see is the entitled airline pilot who was quoted at the beginning of this thread, because he's "special". Crying to the media.

I thought that was lame when those kicked off flights by the Swat team cry to the media. OK for whiny captains.

Like the asshole captain who cut in front of me at the Nexus line. Cost me 60 seconds, but it was the smug backward look said "I'm far more important than anyone". It's the exact same attitude here.

You all wonder why their is no sympathy?
This is an emotional response not a logical one. Feeling like people need to be vaccinated for your safety is not a logical one.

Not wanting a vaccine is not saying "I'm far more important". Its actually quite the opposite. The people who believe vaccines should be mandatory are saying "I'm far more important and you should have no choice what you do with your body"

There is no perfect solution, there is no perfect one way to do things. But I do believe people should have the autonomy to make these choices without life altering consequences. The punishment does not equal the risk. Taking away someones job because they had covid (giving them natural immunity) and don't want a vaccine is not justified in my opinion. they don't pose a risk to society that they deserve to lose their job. Very strange times we life where people think the non vaxed are so much a risk that society benefits by taking away their ability to work. Completely off the rails. There are many more solutions that would be more reasonable.
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