What are the three biggest reasons for floatplane crashes

[pelmet]

Just curious what the experienced guys here would say are the three biggest reasons for crashes. Or....what are some of the things you see that are cause for concern?

[Redmud]

Great topic - I would say after two decades of float operations the top reasons why accidents happen with floatplanes are:
1. Poor decision making (rookie driver/over confident/poorly trained etc).
2. Poor skills.
3. Loss of situational awareness and a lack of understanding of the dynamic nature of the environment operated in.
4. Bad luck - I included this one because I’ve seen well trained seasoned drivers get caught or snagged by something outside of the ordinary. This highlights why flying floats is a continual learning process. No two flights are ever the same.
This is quite an interesting topic and others will hopefully contribute insights and constructive feedback too!
Red

[valleyboy]

Looking at the answer above it seems that just because an aircraft has different under carriage I can predict that there will be no new causes of aircraft accidents.

[pelmet]

Great topic - I would say after two decades of float operations the top reasons why accidents happen with floatplanes are:
1. Poor decision making (rookie driver/over confident/poorly trained etc).
2. Poor skills.
3. Loss of situational awareness and a lack of understanding of the dynamic nature of the environment operated in.
4. Bad luck - I included this one because I’ve seen well trained seasoned drivers get caught or snagged by something outside of the ordinary. This highlights why flying floats is a continual learning process. No two flights are ever the same.
This is quite an interesting topic and others will hopefully contribute insights and constructive feedback too!
Red

Thanks,

Sounds quite typical of aviation accidents. I was hoping with your experience, that I might get more details of specific scenarios.

For example, is glassy water on the list and if so, perhaps some of the details of what people do wrong(lack of recognition or improper procedure after recognition)

[PilotDAR]

A key factor (which insurance companies have figured out) is that nearly everywhere you land a seaplane is not an aerodrome. The pilot rarely has the benefit of the norms and safety elements of an aerodrome. That lack of a defined circuit to a define landing surface means that the pilot has more decision making to do, and much more opportunity for error (obstacles and length). The "routine" of a circuit is easily interrupted - so checks are at risk of being forgotten. It'll take more judgement to assess the winds, and there may be topographic wind effects uncommon to aerodromes. The landing surface is constantly changing, and requires assessment, and consideration of floating or submerged hazards. the landing surface has much greater risk of being intruded by non airplanes on some lakes. Sometimes you should not land there then, you just don't know it then! Finally, you get safely on the water, and docking and mooring are more complex, with the risk of sinking.

Now, it's time to depart, and most of those adverse factors are present again. And, you have the added factor that you forgot to sketch the lake and landing and possible takeoff areas while you were up, and had the view. Now, with no aerodrome diagram, distances, or preferred departure paths, you're at risk of choosing the less ideal departure path, and boxing yourself in with terrain, when perhaps a better path was available, and you forgot.

And, last, but not least, when you've take the plane alone, to a place with no road, even the slightest problem becomes a big deal, as the help you'll need, cannot be driven in, but rather must be flown in (or out)...

The furthest I've ever landed on the water from anyone else, was in northern Labrador, where I believe that I was 93 miles from the nearest other person. But, those people were friends with floatplanes, who knew exactly the path I'd flown for my solo camping night, and to expect me back the next morning. I was extra aware of the solitude, and need for extreme caution, and it worked out fine...

[tractor driver]

1.Float planes often fly low level, off the beaten path, and get “ caught” in poor weather.
2.Surface winds some time get misread, or underestimated, resulting in loss of control on landing, take off or taxi.
3.Approaches are sometimes mishandled with abrupt results. Especially into short lakes.. Common with high flair in glassy conditions, or no flair at all.
There are techniques and precautions that will prevent all of these. They only work when they’re applied.

[pelmet]

Now, it's time to depart, and most of those adverse factors are present again. And, you have the added factor that you forgot to sketch the lake and landing and possible takeoff areas while you were up, and had the view. Now, with no aerodrome diagram, distances, or preferred departure paths, you're at risk of choosing the less ideal departure path, and boxing yourself in with terrain, when perhaps a better path was available, and you forgot.

I was thinking about the diagram thing recently. Do you draw one for the places you fly into. What about google earth for pre-flight analysis im some cases.

[PilotDAR]

I have certainly used Google Earth once home, to reconsider a lake I'd flown over, but chosen not to land into. Google Earth will give me distances, which are excellent for decision making next time.

That said, for lakes I've not landed into, and am going to that trip, I will sketch the lake before I land, including any hazards I can spot, my planned landing area, and suitable takeoff areas, should I choose to not takeoff where I landed (common). I once failed to make the sketch, hen I landed into a lake with many bays and peninsulas. when I took off more or less where I'd landed, it was tight, but I did it okay (just little reserve). Once airborne, and circling for home, I saw a very much better takeoff area, which had been only a few minute taxi around the corner - I took a needless risk taking off confined, where had I sketched, I would have reminded myself about the better takeoff area.

This advice came to me care of a very old and wise TC Inspector, just giving free advice. A thoughtful person, offering a little wisdom to make flying safer!

[BeaverDreamer]

Now, it's time to depart, and most of those adverse factors are present again. And, you have the added factor that you forgot to sketch the lake and landing and possible takeoff areas while you were up, and had the view. Now, with no aerodrome diagram, distances, or preferred departure paths, you're at risk of choosing the less ideal departure path, and boxing yourself in with terrain, when perhaps a better path was available, and you forgot.

I was thinking about the diagram thing recently. Do you draw one for the places you fly into. What about google earth for pre-flight analysis im some cases.

In an unfamiliar place I often make a quick sketch. Usually I’m most concerned about rocks and shallow areas that are invisible once on the water. Sometimes they get quite elaborate in swampy shallow lakes.. It’s worked out so far for me. What you see once on the water can be quite different than what you imagined from the air.

[pelmet]

I have certainly used Google Earth once home, to reconsider a lake I'd flown over, but chosen not to land into. Google Earth will give me distances, which are excellent for decision making next time.

That said, for lakes I've not landed into, and am going to that trip, I will sketch the lake before I land, including any hazards I can spot, my planned landing area, and suitable takeoff areas, should I choose to not takeoff where I landed (common). I once failed to make the sketch, hen I landed into a lake with many bays and peninsulas. when I took off more or less where I'd landed, it was tight, but I did it okay (just little reserve). Once airborne, and circling for home, I saw a very much better takeoff area, which had been only a few minute taxi around the corner - I took a needless risk taking off confined, where had I sketched, I would have reminded myself about the better takeoff area.

This advice came to me care of a very old and wise TC Inspector, just giving free advice. A thoughtful person, offering a little wisdom to make flying safer!

Thyanks,

Now that I think about it, I suppose one could not only sketch a place they come across to land but take a picture with the iPhone.

[PilotDAR]

Nope,

Sketch it. My phone stays in it's waterproof case until I'm ashore*. Simple pencil and paper, you'll remember the layout better 'cause you drew it, and you can mark and label the wind direction, your landing and takeoff areas, and any special notes. You don't drop the phone out the window, nor have the relevant part of the photo obscured by airframe. If you use the phone, you'll think you did what you needed to, but you really didn't, and it didn't sink in that you didn't (pun intended). And, while your phone should be back in the bag for takeoff, you'll be searching through photos for your takeoff area, trying to make out the rock you couldn't label. Yeah, I hit that rock in the 180 decades back, a different story....

As said, my phone stays in the waterproof bag while I'm water flying. The bag stays clipped to my lifejacket, so we exit together. The phone is of no use to you in an wet emergency, if it's wet too. Now I admit, that the last bagged phone was torn from my lifejacket as I was ejected, but the bag kept it dry - on the bottom. It was never recovered, though my wife phoned it for a few days, till the battery went flat. I think it might have worked until the battery went flat, then she said it did not ring any more.

[valleyboy]

Google earth or any of the services out there can be a wealth of information. Google is not necessarily the best, especially since they include a mixture of winter shots. I usually jump between Google earth, Bing and satellites.pro, which I like very much.

Having said all that I used these services to locate, measure and get runway headings for "abandoned" airport work. It was also a great tool to plan marginal wx ops if you got unexpected changes. I have never used it for scouting lakes for float ops, skis and ice work yes to get an idea of runway direction and size of the lake.

I have never "sketched" a lake on floats for landing and that is over a float career of several years and several thousand hours. If you need to do that I suggest you have no business considering a landing there in the first place. The biggest risk is poor visibility water. When you can only see a cpl inches into the water you will need to go on local knowledge of the lake. Baring that, go somewhere else. I was once told by an old water bomber that if they flew over a lake and the ducks dived they would pickup water and if they flew they would not. I'm sure an old wives tail but who knows -- lol

It's like most other things in life and I have always thought it was good advice when I was told. "Don't out think yourself" or the "KISS" theory I have seen it many times. Two pilots and one simply goes out and gets the job done and there is hardly ever a hiccup and the next guy who spends more time planning and analyzing and what iffing and his trips almost always turn into a shit show. We are our own worst enemies.

[rigpiggy]

Call or search the universities in province you are in many have bathymetric maps of the lakes. Buddy has a fishing app with these on it...

[Redmud]

Great topic - I would say after two decades of float operations the top reasons why accidents happen with floatplanes are:
1. Poor decision making (rookie driver/over confident/poorly trained etc).
2. Poor skills.
3. Loss of situational awareness and a lack of understanding of the dynamic nature of the environment operated in.
4. Bad luck - I included this one because I’ve seen well trained seasoned drivers get caught or snagged by something outside of the ordinary. This highlights why flying floats is a continual learning process. No two flights are ever the same.
This is quite an interesting topic and others will hopefully contribute insights and constructive feedback too!
Red

Thanks,

Sounds quite typical of aviation accidents. I was hoping with your experience, that I might get more details of specific scenarios.

For example, is glassy water on the list and if so, perhaps some of the details of what people do wrong(lack of recognition or improper procedure after recognition)

Hi Pelmet,
No worries... we can add glassy water, premature life-vest inflation (either by pilot or by a passenger -grabbing and inflating their or another passenger/pilot’s vest preventing exiting the aircraft post accident), the dynamics of the area of operations (as mentioned earlier by another poster)... unfamiliarity of the aircraft (amphib operations - forgetting the gear down on water landing)... lets see... improper loading of the aircraft, inability to maintain the proper attitude on landing and take-off (dragging heals, therefore increasing the take-off run etc)... improper navigation in deteriorating weather conditions - or, even better - improper knowledge of the local area. A pilot flies into a box canyon while running under the deck and realizes the mistake too late to exit safely... lets see... perhaps rookie copilots placing the aircraft in a situation that is almost unrecoverable given the limited area of operations - such as confined landing areas... basically for me, the whole idea of operating aircraft on floats away from the normal world of airfields/airports with safety systems and support creates an exponential amount of variables that only exposure, experience and good training and skills, not to forget good mentorship can help mitigate the risks - it is difficult to name all the variables... all the above examples have a name and place that goes back in my career... people I miss and think about often... stay safe out there and if you are new to floats, try to get a copilots seat on a multi-engine floatplane/seaplane for your first few seasons if you can... you’ll hopefully have a seasoned life insurance policy sitting to your left to show you the ropes and get you up to speed to stay safe as your career progresses! Mentorship in the floatplane world is paramount to surviving and staying safe!
Red

[shimmydampner]

I was thinking about the diagram thing recently. Do you draw one for the places you fly into.

I never have. When I do my inspection passes and have determined my desired landing and takeoff runs (and contingency plans if required) I look for easily recognizable landmarks on the surrounding shore/hills/mountains and use them to orient myself between them accordingly when on the water.

[who me ?]

My 2 cents,

1. Overloaded too heavy , or forward or aft. C of G
2. Water / wind conditions high gusty winds rough water , or glassy water
3. Gear down with amphibs

[Castorero]

I have had the sad experience of personally knowing three pilots that perished in float operations.
All shared the same deafness to advice, an inflated sense of their flying skills and questionable judgement.
Everybody can see an accident on the horizon, and no amount of well meaning intervention seems to do any good. I know, because we tried...

We are all subject to the same myriad of operational risks inherent in flying floats, however, how we manage those risks on every flight, by and large, determines if we become "old pilots".

Being aware of our personal limitations based on experience or lack of it, and heeding Cat's advise to not fly may well save our bacon more than we care to admit.
Maybe being able to take advice improves with age, but if you are a low time pilot heading into the mountains on a dreary day and an old guy coming out of the tunnel you are heading into tells you that he would not go there, that decision needs to be made on the spot.

Unfortunately, bad things happen to the best of pilots from time to time. People we look up to and learn from. We have all had people like that in our lives, and then one day they perish. How is that even remotely possible, we ask ourselves.

Events beyond our control overtake us with uncanny regularity in aviation. The best we can do is to manage what we can and keep an open mind.

"There but for the Grace of God..."

I saved my bacon early on in my flying life when with an impressive 85 hours under my belt, of which 24 were on the 185 on wheels, I flew from Fort St John to Vancouver to impress my future wife on a first date.
She met me at the South Side and I asked her if there was anywhere she wanted to fly to on that beautiful Summer day.
How about Tofino, she asked ?

I looked in the direction of the Island and there, somewhere above Port Alberni, sat a single solitary cloud suspended in the CAVU sky.
Uhum... I replied weakly... Too cloudy... How about Comox?

I can laugh about it now, forty years on, but I am sure that I am here today because of my decision to not fly on that day and a few others since.

[Redmud]

Well written Castorero, funny I’ve lost three friends too... all to float flying. Some highly experienced and one not so experienced. And, I’ve had my fair share of close calls too...
I can still remember some of them as clearly as if it happened yesterday...
I enjoyed your post, thanxs!
Red

[Lost Lake]

Pilot skills, pilot knowledge and pilot attitudes

[Bede]

All shared the same deafness to advice, an inflated sense of their flying skills and questionable judgement.
Everybody can see an accident on the horizon, and no amount of well meaning intervention seems to do any good. I know, because we tried...

That is so true. A little while ago we had an accident at our local air field. When I heard about it, I knew it was going to be one of three people. Sure enough...

The question is, what do you do with pilots who are accidents waiting to happen?