When applying for a dockhand position, would it be considered rude if you admitted that you're hoping that the dockhand position eventually leads to some flying time (after hard work, of course)?
I'm stumped as to whether or not to include my intentions of eventually wanting to fly in my cover letter.
Thanks
Any dockhands turned pilots? Quick question!
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cloudrunner
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Wouldn't be rude at all rm_pic.
In fact, most operators wouldn't expect you to be a career dockhand if you have a commercial ticket, and the fact that you have a/c experience already sets you ahead of other non-pilots IMHO.
You should make it clear that you're there to work hard and learn from the line pilots so that you can get a seat in the near future.
Make sure you get paid for your work, keep your ears open and don't be afraid to ask questions.
Have fun.
In fact, most operators wouldn't expect you to be a career dockhand if you have a commercial ticket, and the fact that you have a/c experience already sets you ahead of other non-pilots IMHO.
You should make it clear that you're there to work hard and learn from the line pilots so that you can get a seat in the near future.
Make sure you get paid for your work, keep your ears open and don't be afraid to ask questions.
Have fun.
Fill the Oil..Check the Fuel
Working the dock in many ways is a two way street. The owner gets to know you, your work ethic, attitude, and type of person you are. You get to know the operation, the pilots, company attitude, and decide if the operation you're working for is for you. The goal at the end of the road is the coveted checkout. It has been my experience that good dockhands turn into good pilots, and vica versa.
If she floats, give er!
Kenora Air's got some ladies flying their 185's, saw 'em come into Selkirk once (was funny to hear, "you go girl" on the radio)- I heard they were pretty damn good at their job.
I guess if you're up for the work, hauling propane and gas drums around isn't always easy work-and I'm sure these little teeny-bopper barbies you see prancing around the bar wouldn't do it, but I've worked beside some really cool chicks who don't mind getting their hands dirty and do more than pull their weight. Flying aside, I was volunteer firefighting with a girl who'd put some of the boys to shame; now she's hired full time with the fire service.
I guess if you're up for the work, hauling propane and gas drums around isn't always easy work-and I'm sure these little teeny-bopper barbies you see prancing around the bar wouldn't do it, but I've worked beside some really cool chicks who don't mind getting their hands dirty and do more than pull their weight. Flying aside, I was volunteer firefighting with a girl who'd put some of the boys to shame; now she's hired full time with the fire service.
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SuperchargedRS
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Ok...I am getting ready to head off for BFC so I am green in the flying business, but I do have ALOT of experience in this field...just a different industry. I used to be in the car business, I eventually moved up (see: made friends w/ the GM) to F&I (the guy in the little office that sold you that undercoating you shouldn’t have bought lol). Well I can’t tell you how many times I was offered a job as an F&I guy....but we want to start you off in a sales position and see "how things work". I saw one kid that was brought on in sales, management said that they would make him a closer (the guy that comes in on negotiations and tries to help the salesman), well the manager told him "it isn’t working out" and with months in the kid was out of luck. My opinion is don’t let people blow smoke up your arse, don’t think you will ever get anywhere on the "work your way up" system. Get the schooling then get the job, settle for no less.
Just my .02
-SuperchargedRS
Just my .02
-SuperchargedRS
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cloudrunner
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Supercharged...
When it comes to "the schooling", the dock is where it happens.
Yes you have to be wise about picking who you work for in order to "work your way up", but in this industry, that's how it's done. You need to learn the practical side of the float business and prove that you can handle the unique challenges associated with it before someone hands you a 185 and sends you off on camp checks.
Good luck with your BFC, hope you gain some real insight into the biz before the ink on your diploma dries.
When it comes to "the schooling", the dock is where it happens.
Yes you have to be wise about picking who you work for in order to "work your way up", but in this industry, that's how it's done. You need to learn the practical side of the float business and prove that you can handle the unique challenges associated with it before someone hands you a 185 and sends you off on camp checks.
Good luck with your BFC, hope you gain some real insight into the biz before the ink on your diploma dries.
Fill the Oil..Check the Fuel
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SuperchargedRS
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I would like to get some real experience...however I won’t play the hope game. All I was saying is that if one has the right attitude and energy (and puts enough mileage on their feet, car, etc going from place to place) one should be able to find a job, perhaps not flying a c-130 through mountain passes inverted, but a remedial pilot’s job. Or maybe I am totally wrong & jaded; but I think with the right amount of effort, and getting the 50hr float course, and all the trimmings (and yes I know the debate on that), there is no reason one should not be able to get a job flying something somewhere.
Now if I was offered a dock job that involved a significant amount of flight time and my employer backed that up I wouldn’t turn him or her down.
I just look at it like this; if I spent 35-40k of my hard earned money, which I busted my arse for in the car world (where I worked to save up for THIS), spent a year of my life, moved for school and graduated with all the trimmings on my diploma (and kicking maj arse in my training); I my resolve it very clear, I have a no prob chopping wood, teaching some rich hunter how to sight in his rifle or even gut his deer, but I would expect to be hired on as a pilot...heck if things are not working out...fire me, but I guess it is a respect thing. I will respect the owners & what they want me to do (and I will work my asrse off), but don’t try to offer me a job as a "dockhand".
Now if I was offered a dock job that involved a significant amount of flight time and my employer backed that up I wouldn’t turn him or her down.
I just look at it like this; if I spent 35-40k of my hard earned money, which I busted my arse for in the car world (where I worked to save up for THIS), spent a year of my life, moved for school and graduated with all the trimmings on my diploma (and kicking maj arse in my training); I my resolve it very clear, I have a no prob chopping wood, teaching some rich hunter how to sight in his rifle or even gut his deer, but I would expect to be hired on as a pilot...heck if things are not working out...fire me, but I guess it is a respect thing. I will respect the owners & what they want me to do (and I will work my asrse off), but don’t try to offer me a job as a "dockhand".
Last edited by SuperchargedRS on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sarcastic jim
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you're a shoe in, supercharger.
all i might add in advice is to tell the boss your score on your flight test, like say something like "i don't want to brag but i scored 95% on my private flight test, and 96% on my cpl test", it will go over huge!
just be firm, let them know you paid all your dues selling cars and you aren't here to put up with any shit. tell them in school they taught you all about flying in bad weather with big loads and they taught you everything you might learn in a year on the dock in the bush. and don't settle for skimpy pay either. you are unique, having kicked ass at school, so demand to be paid accordingly. in fact, i can't think of any better idea than turning soemone loose on floats who already knows everything and is ready to hop in a go and who feels you would be wasting his time having him learn on the dock.
i wonder what 50 hour bush course you have? i have over a thousand hours on floats and still don't have the balls you have. maybe i should go back to school and get a pair like yours.
good luck
all i might add in advice is to tell the boss your score on your flight test, like say something like "i don't want to brag but i scored 95% on my private flight test, and 96% on my cpl test", it will go over huge!
just be firm, let them know you paid all your dues selling cars and you aren't here to put up with any shit. tell them in school they taught you all about flying in bad weather with big loads and they taught you everything you might learn in a year on the dock in the bush. and don't settle for skimpy pay either. you are unique, having kicked ass at school, so demand to be paid accordingly. in fact, i can't think of any better idea than turning soemone loose on floats who already knows everything and is ready to hop in a go and who feels you would be wasting his time having him learn on the dock.
i wonder what 50 hour bush course you have? i have over a thousand hours on floats and still don't have the balls you have. maybe i should go back to school and get a pair like yours.
good luck
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SuperchargedRS
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How long you been on the board there Jimbo?
Any who, what I said was now that I dont know everything, I'm not stupid, I know that school cant teach real-world type situations that can only be taught through experience. However I am just trying to say that it seems like there are a whole bunch of people who just want slave labor, they give a hope and dream of flying; this is backed up by the this bravado; this is the only way to learn suck it up line. I agree whole heartily, however I think that for a person with the certs and just out of school 250 kinda hrs, maybe a job flying something maybe not even full time and doing whatever else, but sure as hell not a dockhand. I could see being a dockhand if someone only had a PPL or less, but a guy that put the time in, deserves better then a pat on the back and "maybe you will get a few hours next season, sorry". I just think allot of this is the old timers whom busted there balls and now will except no less from anyone else. I work smart not hard, like I said:
Pilot, who doesn’t fly much, chops wood, etc...Ok
Dockhand who chops wood, might get to ride R side Once and a while...no
BTW Sarcastic, when you start in the Car business when you are 18, leave that and start up your own business to fund your dreams that might not pay all that well, you tend to grow a good set
Any who, what I said was now that I dont know everything, I'm not stupid, I know that school cant teach real-world type situations that can only be taught through experience. However I am just trying to say that it seems like there are a whole bunch of people who just want slave labor, they give a hope and dream of flying; this is backed up by the this bravado; this is the only way to learn suck it up line. I agree whole heartily, however I think that for a person with the certs and just out of school 250 kinda hrs, maybe a job flying something maybe not even full time and doing whatever else, but sure as hell not a dockhand. I could see being a dockhand if someone only had a PPL or less, but a guy that put the time in, deserves better then a pat on the back and "maybe you will get a few hours next season, sorry". I just think allot of this is the old timers whom busted there balls and now will except no less from anyone else. I work smart not hard, like I said:
Pilot, who doesn’t fly much, chops wood, etc...Ok
Dockhand who chops wood, might get to ride R side Once and a while...no
BTW Sarcastic, when you start in the Car business when you are 18, leave that and start up your own business to fund your dreams that might not pay all that well, you tend to grow a good set
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sarcastic jim
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just got on the board tonight, could not resist being a dick, you served it up so nicely.
here is the thing; evryone has 'the certs' as you put it. everyone has put in the hard work to get the training, and most will be paying for it for years.
that is great you have been hustling cars for years and don't want to lower yourself to the dock, but you'll find there are a lot of guys like you out there. you need to realize something; when you approach companies you are not unique or special. the only thing at the bottom that really matters is that you can be insured, and chances are you aren't insurable at 250 hours.
so what will they look for after your hours? a hard worker who will do it all and not be a pain in the ass and bitch about what they have coming.
typically they want to get to know you before they trust you with their reputation and other peoples lives. it is nice to know a guy before you turn him loose.
and while you are fully prepared to jump the line up and assume your position the guys who have been on the dock might have something to say about it, like 'get in line'.
bad news super: all the dues you paid elsewhere are worth exactly jack shit.
a late start in aviation from a good career elsewhere is always a recipe for a rude awakening. just prepare yourself. and be prepared to go down to earning minimum wage too, if you are lucky.
you have an alternative though; be an instructor. wear a shirt and tie and carry a flight bag around and tell everyone you are a pilot and earn less and learn less.
but i may be wrong. if you are a good salesman maybe you can hustle the boss and slide into the left seat and away you go. but good luck hustling the insurance company.
and the balls i was talking about aren't the brass ones, there the overinflated kind that burst easily.
here is the thing; evryone has 'the certs' as you put it. everyone has put in the hard work to get the training, and most will be paying for it for years.
that is great you have been hustling cars for years and don't want to lower yourself to the dock, but you'll find there are a lot of guys like you out there. you need to realize something; when you approach companies you are not unique or special. the only thing at the bottom that really matters is that you can be insured, and chances are you aren't insurable at 250 hours.
so what will they look for after your hours? a hard worker who will do it all and not be a pain in the ass and bitch about what they have coming.
typically they want to get to know you before they trust you with their reputation and other peoples lives. it is nice to know a guy before you turn him loose.
and while you are fully prepared to jump the line up and assume your position the guys who have been on the dock might have something to say about it, like 'get in line'.
bad news super: all the dues you paid elsewhere are worth exactly jack shit.
a late start in aviation from a good career elsewhere is always a recipe for a rude awakening. just prepare yourself. and be prepared to go down to earning minimum wage too, if you are lucky.
you have an alternative though; be an instructor. wear a shirt and tie and carry a flight bag around and tell everyone you are a pilot and earn less and learn less.
but i may be wrong. if you are a good salesman maybe you can hustle the boss and slide into the left seat and away you go. but good luck hustling the insurance company.
and the balls i was talking about aren't the brass ones, there the overinflated kind that burst easily.
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sarcastic jim
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SuperchargedRS
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"and the balls i was talking about aren't the brass ones, there the overinflated kind that burst easily."
LOl, I like that one!
Anyway I get what you saying and see the logic in it...I still I confident that I will find someone who will give me a left seat (not as a instructor), I may be flying horse chit around, but it will be doing what I want to do.
And the pay, I am not to worried about, I still have a fall back job that I am keeping that doesn’t req. more then a few late evening hours on my laptop. So good times, I look forward to the adventure and the people.
-SuperchargedRS
LOl, I like that one!
Anyway I get what you saying and see the logic in it...I still I confident that I will find someone who will give me a left seat (not as a instructor), I may be flying horse chit around, but it will be doing what I want to do.
And the pay, I am not to worried about, I still have a fall back job that I am keeping that doesn’t req. more then a few late evening hours on my laptop. So good times, I look forward to the adventure and the people.
-SuperchargedRS
Ya know... (insert thoughtful pause)
sometimes a guy comes along that is invaluable to the industry.
He's unique to some extent... bold... full of enthusiasm... likes to exude a sense of confidence that all around just seem to be drawn to.. like moths to a flame... he speaks with clarity and forethought.. a real MAN'S MAN... he's ... dun da da dunnnnnnn......... sssupercharged
he comes in like a hawk... quiet and deft... circling his prey with all-seeing eyes... he spots his target (the left seat of a PA-12
).. and dives in for the kill... he whisps past the lowly right-seaters and pungent dockhands with precision-guided accuracy... attacking his prey with a ferocity not seen since Bert clobbered Ernie.
with his prey in his tallons he gracefully powers away... beat after mighty beat of his strong, feathered wings (like bird's wings but stronger,more arse kickin' )
he beats off for eternity... with a regularity and consistancy that makes all his peers wonder where he gets the energy to beat off like such a champ... a real CHAMP'S CHAMP !!
so here's to you...sssupercharged... you......guy, you
.
thanks for setting the standard for all to aspire to... straight outta skool and into the seat... the left seat
keep on beatin' champ.. don't quit... don't you ever quit..ya big lug..
sometimes a guy comes along that is invaluable to the industry.
He's unique to some extent... bold... full of enthusiasm... likes to exude a sense of confidence that all around just seem to be drawn to.. like moths to a flame... he speaks with clarity and forethought.. a real MAN'S MAN... he's ... dun da da dunnnnnnn......... sssupercharged
he comes in like a hawk... quiet and deft... circling his prey with all-seeing eyes... he spots his target (the left seat of a PA-12
).. and dives in for the kill... he whisps past the lowly right-seaters and pungent dockhands with precision-guided accuracy... attacking his prey with a ferocity not seen since Bert clobbered Ernie.with his prey in his tallons he gracefully powers away... beat after mighty beat of his strong, feathered wings (like bird's wings but stronger,more arse kickin'
)he beats off for eternity... with a regularity and consistancy that makes all his peers wonder where he gets the energy to beat off like such a champ... a real CHAMP'S CHAMP !!
so here's to you...sssupercharged... you......guy, you
.thanks for setting the standard for all to aspire to... straight outta skool and into the seat... the left seat
keep on beatin' champ.. don't quit... don't you ever quit..ya big lug..
Don't Let the Same Dog Bite You Twice - . Berry
LMAO! Please keep us updated supercharged. While you skip the ramp you should write a book about all the scary things that have happened in the circuit.
Last edited by Hoov on Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
I carry my crucifix
Under my deathlist
Forward my mail to me in hell
Liars and the martyrs
Lost faith in The Father
Long lost in the wishing well
Wild side
Under my deathlist
Forward my mail to me in hell
Liars and the martyrs
Lost faith in The Father
Long lost in the wishing well
Wild side
