when do you say NO !

trapedyzf · Post by **trapedyzf** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:20 am

deleted it

cloudrunner · Post by **cloudrunner** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:57 am

You say "no" when you are outside of your comfort zone. You have to set limits and stick to them. It's always shitty to think about "not getting the job done" cause that goes against your "I can do it" nature. We've all pushed the weather and been thinking "what the hell I am I doing in this shit?" Then you get through it and say "that's the last time I'm doing that !" Then, like a good fly-aholic, you do it again cause you don't want to let the boss down. Well, that to me is the wrong reason to risk your life. If it's a medivac and someone's life is on the line... then you might test the boundries more, but for the sake of the boss's bottom line... not this cat anymore.

trapedyzf wrote:I have done it many times and just waiting for it to jump up a bite me flogging along at 300 ft not seeing the ground not knowing if your in cloud or not.

And it will bite you.

Fly Safe.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:05 am

Used to fly 185's and 206's North of 60, I never left below -30. The plane can probably handle a bit more, but if it does calve, the amount of fun you'll have sitting on a lake will go down exponentially after -30.

As the other guy said, set your own limit, but I would NEVER consider a -40 take off in a piston. Turbine's a bit different, but again, IF it lets go at that temp...

Good luck

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:13 am

Okay, I'm not north of 60....but, I've been there. I've worked for more than a few total jerks who see nothing wrong with running piston stuff at
-40. It ain't worth it! -30 makes a good limit....but ya gotta stick to it. You make one trip at -40, and he'll want to to repete the feat daily! Think safety first.....just think about a cold night sleeping in the old Cessna at -40! Or -2 for that matter......carry a sat-phone and a hand-held GPS with good batteries!

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:19 pm

I know some turbine engines have a minimum temperature limit for starting and for operation but I do not know if that is for the airframe also. Has anyone ever gone to the manufacturer's tech rep to see what they consider to be the minimum temperature for operation?
Maybe we are all test pilots. I know we used to shut down operations at -35F but oils have improved over the years and things are different. What is the biggest problem with extreme cold weather? Brittle metal? Oil congealing? engines quitting? Weather? Is -35 better than -40 and why.
Just curious.

moe · Post by **moe** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:38 am

we used -30 for the 185, -36 for the PA-31.

bezerker · Post by **bezerker** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:31 pm

I remember flying the ho we had a "limit" of -35. However, I noticed that when flying close to that limit, e.g. -30 to -35, almost every day, something would break on each of the 3 ho's we operated. Whether it was the gear not retracting, flaps sticking, instruments failing, digital radios not displaying, props not feathering, etc. I was suprised that the company couldn't figure out the correlation between flying below -30, and broken aircraft. Maybe it was just the crappy pilots.

Spinner · Post by **Spinner** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:08 pm

the PT6-27 has a minimum oil temperature that you have to meet before you can takeoff. (check the POH guys)

The reason is that the fuel going to the engine is actually preheated by the oil. This is to get rid of any ice crystals in the fuel (I assume)

As far as I know there is no other temperature limits.

Northern Flyer · Post by **Northern Flyer** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:20 pm

A min oil temp of -40 is used for the PT6-41/42. But I supose that if you pull her out of the hanger at -60 you could flash her up before the oil cools down to -40. I'm not saying that this would be smart. Our cut offs are -40 for the turbines and -35 for the piston twins.