offstrip tips.

[jet a1]

so i was just looking around the rules of thumb section and i got thinking about rules of thumb for offstrip work...ski work, tundra tires etc. so lets hear some rules/tips for flying offstip. what do you look for at a new landing spot, how do you know it's ok to land. lets even hear about those times when things didn't go so well...

[just curious]

I just go where they tell me and pull the power off.

[just curious]

Plus, I have really sharp first officers

[AntiNakedMan]

When I train our pilots for off-strip work, I make them recite this mantra in their head - "Don't f*ck up".

Ok, I actually teach them this from day one, way before the off-strip stuff.

[Doc]

Pick your spot.....and put it right THERE. Mind the station 60!

[Cat Driver]

Pick your spot.....and put it right THERE. Mind the station 60!

The nice thing about the DC3 was you did not have to worry about station 60.

And we flew them into some of the most unbelievable spots one could imagine they were like Super Cubs on steroids.

[tiny]

LASSO

Length
Altitude
Surface
Slope
Obstacles

If all these things are ok, then landing shouldn't be a problem.

[Cat Driver]

If all these things are ok, then landing shouldn't be a problem.

True, but how does one determine those requirements?

I personally am not comfortable with giving out suggestions on something as variable and critical as how to operate airplanes on and off unprepared surfaces, these things are best learned by flying with other pilots who have learned these skills.

[Big Pistons Forever]

If you seriously want to be able to operate off strip I would suggest you treat it like any other specialty skill in avaition and get practical training from an expert. In this case I would suggest you find an instructor who has extensive practical experience in offstrip work. Put together a training plan that starts with working in and out of progressively more difficult grass/gravel airstrips and then moving to true offstrip work. This is basically what a guy I met once did. He had a big engine Murphy Moose with tundra tires. He went to Yellowknife and spent 2 weeks with one of the locals going into every little hole they could find. I gather he came back with massively improved stick and rudder skills and a healthy appreciation of the dangers in this kind of flying.

[onceacop]

Speed management and knowing what the conditions on the ground are like without having the opportunity to walk it first. It's hard to expect a transplant pilot to make good decisions if they haven't walked a beach at low tide, or kicked at the pebbles which are actually the size of softballs, or humped through the soggy mess in hip boots which looked dry and flat from 200 agl.

[Station 60]

Pick your spot.....and put it right THERE. Mind the station 60!

Yeah! Keep me in mind!

[Oleo 4]

Know your winds - slower gs obviously better
watch for gusts with reduced airspeed on approach
determine your committment point and overshoot path
do not accept being 5 knots fast, pick a speed and manage your power carefully
DO NOT MISS YOUR TARGET TOUCH DOWN
If you do miss and start to float - hit the flap switch up, if you are too high and do it then your going to have some explaining to do.... However if your too long your going to have some explaining to do as well!

I have followed these guidlines working offstrip in the rocks and it has served me well!

Departure off of short off strip stuff:

Into wind!
watch your load and temperatures (density alt)
just enough back pressure to get the nose off
max short field flap from POH
Keep Rolling ALWAYS - from startup once you move you keep going, so taxi at a reasonable speed and start to apply power slowly as you turn on the button of your field and apply full power by the turn exit and you'll keep the prop happy!
Too much back pressure is drag find that sweet spot on a paved runway before you goto the short stuff
Watch your obstacles!
The greatest lift you can have is that point just before stall - you don't want to be testing that theory - drop your load if your gut tells you too!
finally - DO NOT TOUCH your flaps until you have sufficient airspeed and alt from obstacles!

Cheers

[beaverbob]

If you have never operated off strip before find a good grass runway and practice, then find a good gravel runway and practice some more.

The first time I landed on a gravel runway the rattling of a metal airplane rather unnerved me.

Practice best angle of climb speeds untill it is second nature.
Practice judging take off distance by pre planning "go no go" points on or near the runway and then stopping if you are still on the runway when you reach that point. (for practice purposes do not brake so heavy as to cause gravel to fly or skid your tires.

Gives you a good judgement of your planes performance in grass or gravel

Very important to power up on gravel at a rate that the airplane is accelerating so as not to chew the prop up.

This is only a small amount of off airport considerations but a good place to start.

Be careful

BB

[pelmet]

If you are in a Twin Otter, make sure those prop levers are forward for landing. Going from memory, they had to be at least past the 91% in order for the power levers to be able to select reverse. Full forward on the prop levers was 96% so they had to be almost all the way forward.

If not. Well we had an accident up on the ocean ice years back where they couldn't get any reverse. No mechanical fault ever found. Pilots said the prop levers were fully forward for sure. My experience was that it happened to me on a long runway. No reverse available even though I had selected the levers forward on final approach. After that, I decided that this would never happen again, especially considering that a high percentage of landings required reverse capability. I didn't just select the levers fully forward for landing, I held them in the full forward position to make sure 100% that the didnt somehow slip back and hang up the throttles from selecting reverse. Even though one captain didn't like me doing it, I did it anyways. In the heat of the landing on a short offstrip landing, it was never noticed anyways that my hand was moved up there at the last second. Never had a subswequent problem.

[2R]

Practice spot landings .
Pick a stripe on the runway.The second or third stripe allows for a margin of safety in training. Practice until you can put the wheels precisely where you want them.When you can put any wheel at the begining of a stripe with absolute precision at the slowest possible contollable speed you will be getting close to ready for the next lesson.
Spot landings sort out the pilots from the drivers

Never rush the approach .Take a birds eye view of how you would depart the strip before you land.Low aproach and overshoot ay a safe altitude will help determine if it is feasable for the wx today.Do not go in without an out .
Always have an out.One way approaches should only be flown when you are on fire

[mag check]

If it looks rough, then it is.

If it looks smooth, then it "might" be.

[trey kule]

I personally am not comfortable with giving out suggestions on something as variable and critical as how to operate airplanes on and off unprepared surfaces, these things are best learned by flying with other pilots who have learned these skills.

That, catrick, is because you have the knowledge and experience to understand that it is not that easy to do well. I notice JC and some of the other also kind of laugh it off.

Hope the original poster gets the message that some of those on this forum may just not have ever really done any offstrip work.

The best way is to get someone to fly with you for a while who has the knowledge and experience. I have pictures of the results of some confident young pilots who wanted to strut their stuff and things did not work out well for them.

Real off strip work is dodgy at best, and not the time to refer to acronomyms. It is the time to think, analysize and really know your abilities and limits, as the failure to do so will result in some embarrasing moments and a ton of paperwork, including a rewrite of your CV.

To many of the youngins think that if you have tundra tires on you can land anywhere. If you have skiis on, and there is snow below you, you can land on it. They forget that the strip they landed on last week, has been rained on for the last five days and things are not going to be the same.

My rant for the day...this is not the place to get advice for this type of flying.

[Cat Driver]

Real off strip work is dodgy at best, and not the time to refer to acronomyms.

Unfortunately acronyms have replaced using a logical thought process on how you are about to perform some different proceedure in aviation.

These acronyms are the product of the training industry driven by people who not really understanding the subject make up neat sounding acronyms to cover up their ignorance.

If a pilot needs to mentally revert to a acronym before he/she is about to land on an unprepared landing area they won't be flying any airplane of mine.

[aeroyt]

Don't forget "Chicken bone Chicken bone lucky lucky Chicken bone before you start

[AntiNakedMan]

I personally am not comfortable with giving out suggestions on something as variable and critical as how to operate airplanes on and off unprepared surfaces, these things are best learned by flying with other pilots who have learned these skills.

That, catrick, is because you have the knowledge and experience to understand that it is not that easy to do well. I notice JC and some of the other also kind of laugh it off.

Hope the original poster gets the message that some of those on this forum may just not have ever really done any offstrip work.

The best way is to get someone to fly with you for a while who has the knowledge and experience. I have pictures of the results of some confident young pilots who wanted to strut their stuff and things did not work out well for them.

Real off strip work is dodgy at best, and not the time to refer to acronomyms. It is the time to think, analysize and really know your abilities and limits, as the failure to do so will result in some embarrasing moments and a ton of paperwork, including a rewrite of your CV.

To many of the youngins think that if you have tundra tires on you can land anywhere. If you have skiis on, and there is snow below you, you can land on it. They forget that the strip they landed on last week, has been rained on for the last five days and things are not going to be the same.

My rant for the day...this is not the place to get advice for this type of flying.

+1. If you are hired to do it, then there should be someone in your company who can teach you how to. If there isn't, you should question the wisdom of what you are planning.