Float Question

[Lurch]

I've been toying with an idea for the last 2 summers and I just wanted to put it out there.

What is the chance of a float job for a higher time pilot but no float time, just the basic 7-10hrs?

Would the other thousands of hours I have count for anything or would I still be required to Dock it?

Lurch

[Bushav8er]

I'd say experience counts for something...but insurance counts louder.

Only one way to know for sure

[kevinsky18]

Sorry Lurch but I think you know the answer already.

Both the employer and insurance company are going to want to see float time. There's no employer out there that I know of that's going to say hey you have 5000 of King Air time here's the keys to our Beaver on floats.

You're going to be on the dock and working your way up like the rest. 50 hours on floats would help but only as much as it would help a 300hr pilot.

There of course is the logical argument that you with thousands of hours on wheels and 50 hours of float time would beat out another candidate with 300hrs and 50 hrs of float time due to your over all greater experience.

However, the exact opposite argument could be made that the 300hr guy is going to get the job as an employer would always be wondering if you were serious about the long haul and would be worried about you packing up and going back to whatever IFR gig you had previously.

In short 7-10hrs will get you on the dock with the rest of the new guys. 50+ float hours and your previous experience would give you a decent chance at direct flying gig if you conviced them you were serious about the long haul.

[Lurch]

Sorry Lurch but I think you know the answer already.

Both the employer and insurance company are going to want to see float time. There's no employer out there that I know of that's going to say hey you have 5000 of King Air time here's the keys to our Beaver on floats.

You're going to be on the dock and working your way up like the rest. 50 hours on floats would help but only as much as it would help a 300hr pilot.

There of course is the logical argument that you with thousands of hours on wheels and 50 hours of float time would beat out another candidate with 300hrs and 50 hrs of float time due to your over all greater experience.

However, the exact opposite argument could be made that the 300hr guy is going to get the job as an employer would always be wondering if you were serious about the long haul and would be worried about you packing up and going back to whatever IFR gig you had previously.

In short 7-10hrs will get you on the dock with the rest of the new guys. 50+ float hours and your previous experience would give you a decent chance at direct flying gig if you conviced them you were serious about the long haul.

Oh I know all about insurance I deal with them and their "requirements" almost every other month.

Here is the part about you reply I find odd, how is working the dock going to make me look better in the eyes of the insurance company? I have never seen a column on any of their forms thats asks for "time on the dock/ramp"

I've spent enough time in this industry that I'm never going to work the "ramp/dock". I'm not above loading planes heck I load and clean our planes all of the time, this is a part of flying but I'm not going to slave myself out well trying to reach that carrot.

I'm not looking to get into float flying because I need the job, I have a job I love, but it gets slow during the summer and instead of laying off another pilot for the summer I was considering taking the summer off and working else where myself. I've always wanted to fly floats and since it's a seasonal job it would fit well into my winter busy job.

I think the biggest problem I'd have is since I'm not looking at the job as a time builder I wouldn't be like most low timers and put up with unsafe practices. I'd need a company that operates within the law and not expect me to fly over weight or in 1/2mile vis because they want to make another $100.

Lurch

[moose_meat]

My boss actually brought this up with me this summer. I did my first season on floats this past summer, and he had actually mentioned to me that if I wanted to leave and try IFR after one season that he understood, but that if I ever planned on coming back to it commercially, or if I ever got laid off from IFR and it was my only choice that I wouldn't stand a chance having only flown a season, most of which was "flying the dock".

He said it would be wise to at least build 500 hours on floats if I ever wanted to come back an fly floats for him at least. He said if he got two resume's, one from a low time guy with some float experience, and one from a high time IFR guy, with no float experience it was the lower time pilot who got the job for sure (depending on if he liked him of course).

Anyway, that's one opinion from a hiring perspective I guess. You mentioned "instead of laying off another pilot" you would take some time off. Maybe I have misunderstood this but it sounds like you have some experience in the office side of things as well? If so, that might help you out if they need help in the paperwork department.

[ragbagflyer]

It can be done Lurch. There's companies that don't require 50 hrs on floats. That number gets tossed around a lot but you can thank all the operators peddling 50 hr float courses for that. It's sort of like the flight schools talking about the impending pilot shortage.

[beaverbob]

I don't see much problem Lurch. If it was my company I would look at your over all experience and age and think, "this guy already has developed a good airmanship attitude and has probably already developed a safety standard. All he needs is to learn the ropes for a float operation."

I would say that you already have good judgement and would know your own limitations better than the average low time pilot, no matter what type of experience you have.

I got my first float job in Prince Rupert with 11,000 hours and only 6 on floats.
The boss said If I can fly for 11,000 hours VFR around this province of BC without killing myself then I will be good on floats.

I now have more time flying Beavers on floats than my total wheel time.

Bob

[skybaron]

I agree with Ragbag - it can be done; and, yes, having higher time worked for me in getting my first float job on a C180.

Regardless of what's been mentioned in regard to insurance requirements, there are operators out there who have quite a good record with their insurance companies, thus are given a little flexibility on who can be insured. Having higher time makes you more marketable than a 2-300 hour wonder with a float endorsement for the sole fact being - your exposure to making decisions - which comes with experience. It's the stuff that if you have 5000 hours (or just more than 500) has kept you safe (alive) in your previous jobs.

Virtually anyone can be taught to fly a float plane, and having previous IFR, multi, instructing, whatever experience shouldn't be taken a negative aspect for a first float job.

A lot of argument can be made whether or not to start on the dock. I for one didn't, and know that you don't need to start there to fly. Besides, on your first FLOAT job, you'll most likely be (in order) dock-hand, camp builder, carpenter, garbage collector, grounds keeper, sometimes chef, guide, then FINALLY the C180 driver.

Arm yourself with a kenora dinner jacket and filthy work boots/gloves before heading up north to outpost camps looking for a job.

Good luck man.

[LOW BURNER]

worked with someone this summer. 5000+ hours and a good portion of it heavy time. Got the job with only 7 hours on floats. NO dock work. Give it a try

[flyinthebug]

Lurch... There is a spot for you flying floats. Not all companies have the "minimum 50 hours" requirement with their insurance companies. We had a blanket policy that covered even bare bones 7 hours on floats (It was 5 hours then). All you need to do is find a company that has this type of blanket insurance coverage and you`ll be all set. Many employers would value your 1000`s of hours wheel time and as beaverbob pointed out, you have a very good chance at making this work, and if you applied to me directly, I would strongly consider you for a float position. I wish you all the best. Send me a PM if you want a couple ops names that would consider you and your experience for a float position.

Fly safe all!

[Bede]

I have to question this idea of minimum times with insurance. I have done work that involved talking with underwriters (CP) and never did an insurance certificate or policy state a minimum time. The policies I have seen state that pilots must be approved by the company and trained in accordance with CAR's. I believe the "our insurance company requires 300 hrs floats) is a red herring. And it gives bosses a reason not to hire someone without outright saying you don't have the experience we are looking for.

I met a guy who worked the ramp/dock for a company without a float rating. The guy worked hard and the company gave him a float rating on the Turbine Otter on amphibs. After a bit of supervision, the guy was flying the otter on amphibs and caravan on amphibs - with a bare bones float rating.

Same thing goes for flying clubs schools. The one I'm involved with told people they needed a comprehensive checkout, even if they had 1000hrs on a 172. Turns out the insurance just requires club membership and no checkout.

[Lurch]

Thanks guys

This was pretty much what I was thinking

Lurch

[Lurch]

Edited

Haha opps some how my PM got posted

Oh well good thing there was nothing in there I didn't want anybody to know

[302sc]

check out pilotpointer.com you will find under employment on seaplanes several outfits already looking for floatplane pilot in canada and elsewhere for 2010, good luck!

[Lurch]

When do float operators usually hire for the season?

[moose_meat]

Try calling in February/March

I know that with many you have to be persistent and call frequently

[Dust Devil]

I have to question this idea of minimum times with insurance. I have done work that involved talking with underwriters (CP) and never did an insurance certificate or policy state a minimum time. The policies I have seen state that pilots must be approved by the company and trained in accordance with CAR's. I believe the "our insurance company requires 300 hrs floats) is a red herring. And it gives bosses a reason not to hire someone without outright saying you don't have the experience we are looking for.

Ummm as someone with a insurance certificate right in front of me I can assure you that is has minimum times on it. Granted I'm not a float operator but I see no reason that should matter.