Cessna 180

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tazin river
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Cessna 180

Post by tazin river » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:04 am

Good day

Looking at getting a Cessna 180 on floats within the year and presently doing my home works....someone mentioned to me to stay away from the A and J model but did not really explain why! Something to do with engine overheating during long take-off run...

Can someone please shed some lights on this?

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Tazin
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by NWONT » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:27 am

Stay away from the J model engine. It has many problems including the exhaust system. The system is held to the cylinders with two studs instead of four so flanges will warp and cause leaks which will eventually erode the cylinder itself. It has two mufflers with a poor support system which means many cracks. At one time the system had to be inspected every 25 hours, don't know if thats been changed. The engine is also lesser HP, 225 instead of 230. The early A models etc of the aircraft get off the water well because they are smaller and lighter they also shake apart sooner for the same reason. Look for a Skywagon (it has the extra window, looks like a 185) it'll hold its value longer.
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tazin river
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by tazin river » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:56 am

Thank you very much for the quick reply. A friend of mine has the J model and had to replace the same cylinder twice in the last 2 years and I think this is related to what you just mentioned.

So I gather then that the K, L, or S models are the way to go? I believe they were produced later than the J with the 230 HP engine.

Thanks a million again.
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by NWONT » Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:16 am

The K model was the best for many years. Then the R model took over. I think this is the best one, probably because that is what I have in my 180. There are newer models that I'm unfamilliar with. Many are converting to PPonk engines (I think thats how you spell it) The possibilities are endless, so is the cash payout.
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by tazin river » Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:37 am

Thanks again!

Just so I understand as I do not know much yet about the 180. Does the model A and J we talked about refer to the airframe only on the engine (or both). Just saw a 180J advertized for sale with the O-470S for engine..would that be a bad combo because of the airframe model?

Cheers
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by NWONT » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:21 am

Its the J engine to stay away from, not the aircraft. I'm not familiar with the S model engine but I'm sure its a good one. There is also a U engine, seems to me it turns slower, maybe an engineer with more recent experience could help here. Different engines have different oil systems (splashers etc) worth looking into.
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by iflyforpie » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:02 am

I haven't done too much work on 180s, but the O-470-U on the 182 is one of the best engines out there. 2000 hour TBO if properly modified, and 230 HP at only 2400 RPM. They run smooth and idle really slow for docking.
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by Big Pistons Forever » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:14 am

my 02 cents

When the 185 came out the airframe was beefed up and in 1964 the 180 and 185 were built to the same specs in order to achieve production line efficencies. This resulted in a significant empty weight increase for the 180. By the time they got to the late 1970 O470U (C180K) powered machines the airframe empty weight was up almost 250 pounds over a pre 1964 example. The problem with very early airframes (pre 1960) is the engine as discussed above (although many have been updated to later engine styles) and the cowling, a complete nightmare to remove and replace and with a poor cowl flap design that made it easier to overheat the engine. IMO the sweet spot for 180's is the 1960 to 1963 models (C180 D,E,F) with an "R" or "S" model engine
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by Shiny Side Up » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:16 pm

Cessna 180 Engine and airframe combos. One thing that wiki doesn't mention though, but may be of concern when purchacing a 180 is the size of the fuel tanks. Some of the original 180 and 180A models were only equipped with the 42 US gal tanks, from its lineage of the Cessna 170. Makes the airplane a little short legged, especially on floats. Many have been refitted with larger tanks, though I know of at least one running around with the smaller tanks.
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tazin river
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by tazin river » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:36 pm

Thanks folks

It certainly makes my job of looking for a 180 a lot easier! Exactly what I needed to know.

Cheers
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by Edo » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:10 pm

Not sure of the model letters but after 1957 or so the wing was beefed up.

1956 and before the airplane is lighter but not certified on aerocet foats (if i recall correctly) Check with aerocet and I would look into the wing x stol tips. Not necessary but if you want to add on later it would be a shame to buy an older model and then find out you cant customize it.
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by sheephunter » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:47 pm

Tazin, IMO look for one already with wing ext. This is a fairly expensive mod. Secondly,STOL and then vg's. A time x'd engine is also good if youv can afford to go with the higher hp upgrade. If you are flying floats in the north stay with something carberated so that you can keep the mogas STC. It's a great time to be shopping for a C180... Give ur!
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by tazin river » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:54 am

Thanks again Folks - Please keep them coming!

Are droop tips considered to be a wing extention?

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Re: Cessna 180

Post by cdnpilot77 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:35 am

I am flying a 180 on floats this season and we run the mogas. There is a definite performance difference when you are running a higher percentage of Avgas but the trade-off in cost to run the mix vs. straight avgas is fairly significant. We also have the droop tips and VG's which in my opinion also make a dramatic difference. Ours is a 1960 model but it is a flyer! Great performance, great fun!
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by NWONT » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:46 pm

No Taz, droop tips are not wing extentions.
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by oldncold » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:30 pm

2 best examples I ever saw were a Bern Browns' 180 k model which until health issues , the enevitable age thing. up in coville lake nwt sweet machine at least back in the early '90's . the other and maybe air tids could help me out on this one was out of nelson bc 55- 56 model all done up only 1 owner since 1970 a logging contractor joe? l(last name escapes me ) actually the absolute best model show room quality and most likely a kings ransome is Barry Lapointe( pres of kelowna flightcraft) cessna180

Aerocet floats do work as advertised and would sure help getting the ole buck 80- out of the water sooner. fly safe and make sure you do a very Through corrosion inspection as well /remember the joy of a lower price can be poisoned by the unforseen maintenace headache very soon there after.

Also have your ame check to see if the aircraft is in proper rig not only the floats box square but the that the angle of incidence on the wing is dead on / if not this is a possible indication that it was (if logs do not already indicate) substantial damage .Ergo not put in a proper jig to rebuild . nowdays with a simple laser light and the srm (structrual repair manual) it is relativively strait forward and quick to check the vertical :mrgreen: fin according to the srm should be x ' to the right so that p factor, torque in level cruise unloads most of the dynamic air load. if this measurement is not ask a lot of questions. hope that helps.
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by Bede » Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:38 pm

oldncold wrote:2 best examples I ever saw were a Bern Browns' 180 k model which until health issues , the enevitable age thing. up in coville lake nwt sweet machine at least back in the early '90's .
Anyone know what Berne Brown is upto these days? He was always proud of the fact that he out lasted his friend Max Ward and was still flying. That was 10 years ago though.
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by tazin river » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:38 am

Last time I saw Berne and his beautiful C180 for that matter was 10 years ago as well in Colville Lake. The last I heard about his plane is that he had it for sale in Edmonton 3 years ago. As far as I know, Max is the one who out lasted Berne as he still shows up every summer up to Red Rock on the Coppermine river in his Single Otter...

Thanks for all the info on the 180...starting to get a pretty good idea of what to get or not. Will have a few more questions I am sure.

Have a great day.
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by nofate » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:04 am

As an investment, the C180 tends to hold or increase in value so if you change your mind after buying one you should be able to get your money back.
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by kiloindiapapa » Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:58 am

You might be better off buying a 175 or 170 with the 180 hp. Haul the same load for less fuel consumption.
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by HS-748 2A » Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:50 pm

kiloindiapapa wrote:You might be better off buying a 175 or 170 with the 180 hp. Haul the same load for less fuel consumption.
I've always figured the 170 with the Doyne conversion looked like a pretty good airplane.
Would be interested though to know how it compares to the Buck Eighty on floats. I can't imagine you could get quite the load in there and maintain the same out of the water & climb performance etc.

Also, I cannot picture the 170 on floats cruising at 120 MPH.

Would be interested in hearing from somebody who has time on both though.


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tazin river
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by tazin river » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:47 pm

Well, for one thing, there sure isn't a whole lot of those C170/180hp powered in Canada on the market. Don't recall seeing one in recent years....
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by HS-748 2A » Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:13 pm

tazin river wrote:Well, for one thing, there sure isn't a whole lot of those C170/180hp powered in Canada on the market. Don't recall seeing one in recent years....
There have been a couple through COPA in the not too recent past. There are a couple on Barnstormers too.

I take that back. None listed on Barnstormers at the moment, in Canada.

There is at least one American one on floats though and a couple other nice looking ones on wheels.

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Re: Cessna 180

Post by Airtids » Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:39 pm

oldncold wrote:2 best examples I ever saw were a Bern Browns' 180 k model which until health issues , the enevitable age thing. up in coville lake nwt sweet machine at least back in the early '90's . the other and maybe air tids could help me out on this one was out of nelson bc 55- 56 model all done up only 1 owner since 1970 a logging contractor joe?
Bizarre. Before I wrote a response, I had to get up and go look at the "Father Brown" painting sitting over my fireplace. I often wonder what/where he is up to these days. Last I heard, he was still kicking around up at Colville. Fishing must still be pretty good!

Joe Tencza's 180 was indeed about a 55-56. Fit with 2790 amphibs, I don't know what the useful load would be like, but it's pretty much just him and a buddy going up to Evans for the day. He spent a LOT of time 'tinkering' on that machine.

One thing that hasn't really been mentioned (OK, BPF alluded to it) is that the early model 180's were a really lightweight frame. Plus and minus: Plus is that means a good useful load, minus is that it can get beat to HELL. Whitecapping water and unimproved snow will trash the lighter airframes.

Good luck...
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Re: Cessna 180

Post by lost in the north » Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:31 pm

Buy a 182,great floatplane...If I didn't have so much tied up in my 185 I would look at one,Airtids has a nice one for sale.
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