Who can give you a float rating?

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Cat Driver
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Re: Who can give you a float rating?

Post by Cat Driver »

A flight test by an independent flight test examiner would be the logical way to go......the five solo take offs and landings are just another stupid requirement some drone in a T.C. cubicle thought up.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Who can give you a float rating?

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Cat Driver wrote:A flight test by an independent flight test examiner would be the logical way to go......the five solo take offs and landings are just another stupid requirement some drone in a T.C. cubicle thought up.
Absolutely. In the US you have to do a ride with an examiner to get the seaplane rating. We should have the same system in Canada.
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Hornblower
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Re: Who can give you a float rating?

Post by Hornblower »

spafloats wrote: you must be insured for the solo flight or the rating isn`t legal and so is the flight. Ratings have been voided and hours have been rolled back in the past by T.C. for not following the rules.

Spafloats
Well, if you don't meet the requirments for the rating, the rating could be cancelled, but insurance is not a requirement for the rating, so there would be no grounds to cancel the rating for that reason ... for not having done the five sole occupant take-offs and landings; yes. In theory you could be charged for a breach of the 606 regs, but the insurance rules don't apply to the pilot; only the owner/operator ... but we've been down that road in another thread.
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Hornblower
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Re: Who can give you a float rating?

Post by Hornblower »

Cat Driver wrote:A flight test by an independent flight test examiner would be the logical way to go......the five solo take offs and landings are just another stupid requirement some drone in a T.C. cubicle thought up.
I so agree with that, but who would do the test??

I guess that the 5 take-offs and landings is actually a test, but without an examiner ... if you come back, you've passed the test.

I suppose that TC decided long ago that they don't have the type of personnel to do that kind of testing, or even to do the delegation of someone who could. TC only hires ATPL pilots that typically come from a different world. There are few TC inspectors left that come from the float world (except for those that did it for a season or two to build enough hrs to get out. So the end result is the test is carried out by trial and fire ... here you go my son, try to get back here in one piece and they'll give you the rating ... best of luck!
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Cat Driver
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Re: Who can give you a float rating?

Post by Cat Driver »

I so agree with that, but who would do the test??
Any T.C. inspector or any DFTE, same as for the multi engine ratings and IFR ratings......which incidentally do not require solo flights.

There are thousands of retired pilots who may be interested in being a DFTE for sea plane ratings.....if it were not for all the B.S. that T.C. would ask for.
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beaverbob
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Re: Who can give you a float rating?

Post by beaverbob »

I have done a half dozen float ratings. I sent in the forms and TC never questioned anything. Never asked for the insurance.
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Kdevine
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Re: Who can give you a float rating?

Post by Kdevine »

Colonel Sanders wrote: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:00 am
who can sign off my float rating?
Any Authorized Person at any FTU can do it. I did it for years, for free.

Whether or not they will or not, is another question.

Hell, if you're in eastern ontario, give me a holler.
Hello Colonel Sanders,

This is a long shot, but I just finished my PPL and came across this forum looking into getting my float raiting. I am also in eastern Ontario. Would it ve possible to speak with you

Thanks,
Kieran
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Freetime
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Re: Who can give you a float rating?

Post by Freetime »

If an aircraft owner meets the requirements to provide instruction for a float rating can they charge money for the instruction?
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Bede
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Re: Who can give you a float rating?

Post by Bede »

Freetime wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:27 am If an aircraft owner meets the requirements to provide instruction for a float rating can they charge money for the instruction?
No. Need FTUOC.
406.03 (1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), no person shall operate a flight training service in Canada using an aeroplane or helicopter in Canada unless the person holds a flight training unit operator certificate that authorizes the person to operate the service and complies with the conditions and operations specifications set out in the certificate.

(2) A person who does not hold a flight training unit operator certificate may operate a flight training service if

(a) the person holds a private operator registration document or an air operator certificate, the aircraft used for training — in the case of the holder of an air operator certificate — is specified in the air operator certificate, and the training is other than toward obtaining a pilot permit — recreational, a private pilot licence, a commercial pilot licence or a flight instructor rating; or

(b) the trainee is

(i) the owner, or a member of the family of the owner, of the aircraft used for training,

(ii) a director of a corporation that owns the aircraft used for training, and the training is other than toward obtaining a pilot permit — recreational or a private pilot licence, or

(iii) using an aircraft that has been obtained from a person who is at arm’s length from the flight instructor, and the training is other than toward obtaining a pilot permit — recreational or a private pilot licence.

(3) In the case of flight training conducted under subparagraph (2)(b)(iii), the flight instructor shall

(a) notify the Minister in writing of

(i) the name and address of the person to receive the training,

(ii) the registration of the aircraft to be used,

(iii) the type of training to be conducted,

(iv) the location of the training operations, and

(v) the name and licence number of the flight instructor; and

(b) provide the information to the Minister

(i) prior to commencing training operations,

(ii) within 10 working days after any change to the information, and

(iii) when the training is discontinued.
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photofly
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Re: Who can give you a float rating?

Post by photofly »

Bede wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:52 am
Freetime wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:27 am If an aircraft owner meets the requirements to provide instruction for a float rating can they charge money for the instruction?
No. Need FTUOC.
To reduce the possible ambiguity in Bede’s correct answer, yes, they can charge money for the instruction as long as they use an airplane provided at arm’s length, but they can’t provide training - for money, or for free - in the airplane that they own.

The restriction doesn’t depend on being paid, using their own airplane isn’t permitted either way. But in someone else’s plane, sure, charge what you can get.
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mmm..bacon
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Re: Who can give you a float rating?

Post by mmm..bacon »

So if a pilot friend comes to me, the owner of, say, a 180 on floats, and asks, "I'm going to buy a 180 also. Can you give me a float rating on your plane, please?" and my reply is "sure, you pay for the gas, and the beer afterwards!" then that violates 406.03?
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Re: Who can give you a float rating?

Post by digits_ »

mmm..bacon wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:59 am So if a pilot friend comes to me, the owner of, say, a 180 on floats, and asks, "I'm going to buy a 180 also. Can you give me a float rating on your plane, please?" and my reply is "sure, you pay for the gas, and the beer afterwards!" then that violates 406.03?
Yes.
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scdriver
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Re: Who can give you a float rating?

Post by scdriver »

photofly wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 5:09 am
Bede wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:52 am
Freetime wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:27 am If an aircraft owner meets the requirements to provide instruction for a float rating can they charge money for the instruction?
No. Need FTUOC.
To reduce the possible ambiguity in Bede’s correct answer, yes, they can charge money for the instruction as long as they use an airplane provided at arm’s length, but they can’t provide training - for money, or for free - in the airplane that they own.

The restriction doesn’t depend on being paid, using their own airplane isn’t permitted either way. But in someone else’s plane, sure, charge what you can get.
Strictly speaking an FTUOC isn’t required if the owner simply holds an AOC but I don’t think thats the case here.
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Bede
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Re: Who can give you a float rating?

Post by Bede »

^ that's true. The other exception is if you do a float rating for someone and don't charge them anything (act of charity).
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photofly
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Re: Who can give you a float rating?

Post by photofly »

How is that legal?

Oh - because if it's not for reward, it's not a commercial air service, therefore it isn't a flight training service, so none of the 40x rules apply.

I guess that means this:
photofly wrote:To reduce the possible ambiguity in Bede’s correct answer, yes, they can charge money for the instruction as long as they use an airplane provided at arm’s length, but they can’t provide training - for money, or for free - in the airplane that they own.
is wrong.

You can train someone in your own plane, completely for free, as Bede says. But according to the Aeronautics Act, "hire and reward" means "any payment, consideration, gratuity or benefit, directly or indirectly charged, demanded, received or collected by any person for the use of an aircraft" so they can't even pay for the gas.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
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