beaver hourly operating costs?

[GUMPS]

Tractor747,

I've been reading your posts for a while now. Don't take this the wrong way, but I think your business plans has all the marks of failure. I don't want to piss in your snow angel but perhaps my criticism can save you from losing a bunch of money. I have a feeling you love airplanes, have a bit of money after years of hard work, want to be your own boss, but don't know a lot about the business. Please don't lose a bunch of your money on this.

You are going on a public board asking about hourly costs. This is a poor place for it. There are too many variables. How much is insurance? If you own the plane outright, you can get away without paying for hull insurance. As a new operator, insurance will be higher as well. Will you have an AMO? If you have your own AMO, maintenance is cheaper, however, you need a certain number of hours flown to justify paying a DOM, equipment costs, etc. 1200 hrs/ year on a Beaver??? I have never heard of an operator flying that much. Maybe scheduled flying on the coast, but not charter.

A general rule of thumb is fuel costs x 3. If you want more of a breakdown, calculate fuel and oil. Then go by an AMO and ask them how many hours a typical beaver flies and how much they spend on maintenance per year. Then figure out engine and prop overhaul cost. Calculate fixed costs (salaries, hangar, insurance, phones, office, internet, advertising, etc.) Don't forget to add in incidentals (paint, interior, avionics, etc.)

You need to figure out what your revenue will be. Call some operators and get a few quotes. Then knock 10% off the price because as soon as you open up, they'll cut their prices to under cut you. I think you will pretty soon realize that you can make more money doing your existing job than this.

However if you do go ahead, I wish you all the best.

This is the best advice you've been given on any of the threads you've started here.
I hope you're talking to actual owners and operators outside of this place. Besides the current owners I'd suggest you to go talk to the guys who started a float operation in the last 10 years and are now out of the game, find out what went wrong and why.

[Beefitarian]

I understand what bede is saying and he's got excellent points. I'm about to sell a 3-ton truck and lose thousands of dollars in addition to the operating cost of attempting to run it commercially part time.

Thing is I could have lost that money buying stocks like a lot of people I have talked to did. I even worked with a guy once that told me how he lost money on real estate, that's supposed to be the "can't lose" investment.

If you can buy the beaver and own it. Even if you lose some money and end up going back to some other job later, it might be worth it for the experience. Sometimes doing something you love is valuable beyond the cost.

Maybe just buy one Beaver to start with.

[xsbank]

No! There is a difference between trying to start a business without doing your homework, without having a solid business plan and buying, say, a boat, which will be strictly a lifestyle thing. The costs of running a Beaver are so far out of range of a "normal" middle class guy that the experience will be very short.

A business is strictly to earn a living and the primary goal is money. The tool you use to generate the money should be amenable but not the raison d'être.

Beef, surely when you contemplate the sale of your truck and the loss of all that hard-earned dosh, you must wish you had researched it better or worked harder at it? The "experience" can't be worth what you paid for it?

By the way, I have a friend who says "Boating is the best time you can buy." Certainly you can do it for longer in a boat than buying a Beav. I have about 2000 hours in a Beav, enjoyed using it to earn a living, enough that I even thought of doing it again but there probably wasn't more than a couple of hours I would have actually paid for.

[Beefitarian]

Beef, surely when you contemplate the sale of your truck and the loss of all that hard-earned dosh, you must wish you had researched it better or worked harder at it? The "experience" can't be worth what you paid for it?

Nope. My only regret is it was not an airplane.

Having wrote that I don't recommend it for everyone. Be careful Tractor747, unlike myself, these guys talk sense.

worked harder at it?

Ok I'll fess up since everyone wants to hear about "hard work." I've done it a few times, I don't regret that either.

I wish I worked harder at being myself and doing important things.
- actually finished my multi, IFR, CPL by 30.
- found a good Bagua master.
- finished building my race car.
- made some animated films.
- traded this house for an acreage with an airstrip.
- practiced more and sought out better bands to join.

Instead I did too many things to impress other people like being an Electrician and trying to own/operate a truck. Live and learn. It could have been a lot worse.

[iflyforpie]

There were some guys up the road from us who operated a Beaver. They were accountants who had built up a very successful charter business... but fell for the 'emotional response' of running a float-equipped Beaver in a market and terrain that didn't suit it.

All of the profits from the business were funneled into sustaining a dream that even the most skilled accountant couldn't balance. Eventually, they went back to accounting.

[letsfly]

My earlier method of determining the Piston Beaver operating at $355.00 has additional equations for figuring out the Charter Cost. The operating costs multiplied by 3 divided by airspeed in MPH. 3 X 355 = $1065.00/110MPH = $9.68 per mile. Once again the speed will vary as will fuel costs, insurance and labour.

[Beefitarian]

Pie, that sucks and I doubt they are happy with losing the money but I bet they don't regret trying.

[LousyFisherman]

Pie, that sucks and I doubt they are happy with losing the money but I bet they don't regret trying.

I worked for 5 years, and then wasted another 5 years on a failed dream. I really have no regrets other than I wish I had recognized the point when the effort became wasted effort. I no longer stress about making payroll or during times of tight cash flow. I was totally unaware of how deeply the business had taken over my life. 16 hours/day, 6 days/week, 51 weeks/year for 10 years.

I am glad I tried, it's unfortunate I failed, however, now I can afford to go flying and enjoy all the other parts life I neglected for 10 years

YMMV
LF

[tractor747]

Pie, that sucks and I doubt they are happy with losing the money but I bet they don't regret trying.

I worked for 5 years, and then wasted another 5 years on a failed dream. I really have no regrets other than I wish I had recognized the point when the effort became wasted effort. I no longer stress about making payroll or during times of tight cash flow. I was totally unaware of how deeply the business had taken over my life. 16 hours/day, 6 days/week, 51 weeks/year for 10 years.

I am glad I tried, it's unfortunate I failed, however, now I can afford to go flying and enjoy all the other parts life I neglected for 10 years

YMMV
LF

You are right guys, if you don't try you'll never know. If i fail, I fail and keep trying. I'm not going to try it a million times but at least I can say that I tried to do something I love and wherever it takes me it takes me.

tractor747

[Beefitarian]

I hope you do well. Aviation sounds pretty tough. Some say the best way to make a million dollars in it is to start with several million dollars.

Try to keep your debt load as low as possible. Zero would be best if possible. I would probably be much more upset if I owed money instead of just spending too much.

[tractor747]

I hope you do well. Aviation sounds pretty tough. Some say the best way to make a million dollars in it is to start with several million dollars.

Try to keep your debt load as low as possible. Zero would be best if possible. I would probably be much more upset if I owed money instead of just spending too much.

if you do for the love of aviation and flying and listen to what the customer wants and not what you want in time you should and I say you should do well to earn an above average living and continue to enjoy life at its fullest and that is being involved in something you love to do.

One day at a time.

[ruddersup?]

Tractor, it's all depends on the "realistic" business plan. Everyone tries to make the numbers work because they've got a chubby on for it. Instant failure, well maybe the reserve fund can drag it out a year or two.
If the flying involves outfitting then you need two aircraft. The idea there is to make money with the camps while the aircraft is on the water. The less you fly the Beaver the more you will make, oxymoron?
This is something one does not jump into. Been there done it.

[tractor747]

Tractor, it's all depends on the "realistic" business plan. Everyone tries to make the numbers work because they've got a chubby on for it. Instant failure, well maybe the reserve fund can drag it out a year or two.
If the flying involves outfitting then you need two aircraft. The idea there is to make money with the camps while the aircraft is on the water. The less you fly the Beaver the more you will make, oxymoron?
This is something one does not jump into. Been there done it.

I agree 100% with your words. If you don't do your homework especially financing the operation and having a bulletproof business plan your're going down in flames. I am presently doing alot of homework, talking to others that have done it and are doing it in the floatplane side of operations and I'm trying to find out who will use my service. We have all have seen others try and not make it, so I am doing this one step at a time.

I'm still looking for other operators to have a chat with in terms of the day to day operations and to pick brains.

Thanks ruddersup for the cautious words. Also we have one life to live and you might as well try to do something you love .

[195'er]

Tractor747,

I know this is an older thread, but I'm curious how your adventures into a charter/scenic flight operation with the Beaver have progressed? I ask this sincerely and not tongue in cheek.

I, too, am in the process of starting a scenic flight biz here in the lower 48. I'm starting out in my 195 but hope to add a Stearman or Waco in the near future. Looking down the road, I entertain the idea of a Beaver for scenic flights and/or charter flights despite their horrific operating costs! Tough to put a price on cool!

Anyhow, fill us in on your progress if you don't mind and thanks for letting me in on the discussion fellas! My 195 came from a guy over in Red Deer in fact.