Weekend Feild Annuals

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J31
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Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by J31 »

Shop rate $100 per hour
If you watch and ask questions $125 per hour
If you want to help $150 per hour.
If you help and fail to do it right the first time $200 per hour. :smt040
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RedAndWhiteBaron
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Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by RedAndWhiteBaron »

J31 wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:08 pm Shop rate $100 per hour
If you watch and ask questions $125 per hour
If you want to help $150 per hour.
If you help and fail to do it right the first time $200 per hour. :smt040
LOL, I've actually made that request of my mechanic - "Can I help if I pay you more?"

It's especially funny because he has a poster in the office saying exactly this.
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photofly
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Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by photofly »

I’m boring, I know, but I find that sort of laugh very disrespectful to the customer. It׳s like the pottery jar that says on it “ashes of difficult clients”. Neither projects a professional image.
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digits_
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Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by digits_ »

photofly wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:52 pm I’m boring, I know, but I find that sort of laugh very disrespectful to the customer. It׳s like the pottery jar that says on it “ashes of difficult clients”. Neither projects a professional image.
Yup. Or the classic mousetrap with the "ring to file complaint".

The funny thing is, you only see those labels in places where it can't really be interpreted as a joke.
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CBAME
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Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by CBAME »

I once considered doing the same thing, but due to the reasons posted and the amount of equipment and tools needed i decided a shop can do a better inspection in a hangar, Also the shops and AME's who do the inspection with a pen could be my competition, difficult to compete against someone who never finds any snags and is all done by lunch, curious on who the shop mentioned is. It bugs me if you say "I do not need to check the spark plugs it only flew 30 hours" what happens if next year the plane flies 30 hours, you say the same thing, then it flies 100 hours and your spark plugs now have 160 hours on them, and probably the grease in the wheel bearings, the oil filter and the floor has 2 to 3 years worth of bugs dirt and corrosion under it. jus my thoughts

I do admit it would be fun to work on planes again if i could find a good customer or even helping an AME with his weekend/evening annuals, PM if your in SW Ontario and need help.

as for being a licensed AME and having to delver pizza to get by, that is not good and something needs to change this career should be enough to get by. and the owners should be ashamed they do not pay their staff enough to live.
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SmartWrenchMonkey
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Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by SmartWrenchMonkey »

CBAME wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:31 pm I once considered doing the same thing, but due to the reasons posted and the amount of equipment and tools needed i decided a shop can do a better inspection in a hangar, Also the shops and AME's who do the inspection with a pen could be my competition, difficult to compete against someone who never finds any snags and is all done by lunch, curious on who the shop mentioned is. It bugs me if you say "I do not need to check the spark plugs it only flew 30 hours" what happens if next year the plane flies 30 hours, you say the same thing, then it flies 100 hours and your spark plugs now have 160 hours on them, and probably the grease in the wheel bearings, the oil filter and the floor has 2 to 3 years worth of bugs dirt and corrosion under it. jus my thoughts

I do admit it would be fun to work on planes again if i could find a good customer or even helping an AME with his weekend/evening annuals, PM if your in SW Ontario and need help.

as for being a licensed AME and having to delver pizza to get by, that is not good and something needs to change this career should be enough to get by. and the owners should be ashamed they do not pay their staff enough to live.
One great part of this whole thread for me has been "Can a AMO provide a better inspection than the same AME". I have the tools and equipment, I splurged for some neat new toys too. I am open to discussion on this, if I can't provide an equal or greater quality I'm not interested in operating. Please let me know if you think of anything the thread hasn't already discussed.

There is another part to that story which makes it a little more understandable but at the end of the day as an apprentice I was shocked, also stupid. What I learned since then is that GA is a different beast, things are complicated sometimes. Fundamentally the relationship between a aircraft owner and his maintainer can be extremely valuable.

I think most guys have a side gig. I know a guy who sells antiques on ebay, couple guys reno'ing houses, a buddy who rent's electric bikes to tourists. It's just how it is. Life's not easy, it's not suppose to be.

For anyone following along. I have a hangar to work in now.
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Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by SmartWrenchMonkey »

Pat Richard wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:39 am
SeptRepair wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:10 am Been an engineer for over 30 yrs now. I remember being enthusiastic like yourself many moons ago. I worked in a shop pumping out annuals like a puppy mill. Learned on my own with out guidance. Annuals were expected to be done in 8hrs start to finish from initial run up to post run up cowls on. Excuse by management being "they only flew 4hrs last year. nothing to look at it." This mind set although wrong was the norm. The customers came to expect an annual's cost. Trying to break out on my own and give them value and preform the work as expected, would mean i would have to double their annual cost if not triple as the parts that require replacement would also need to be attended to. Also I knew the shop owner i currently worked for would fire my ass, rightfully so.
Fast forward and after a few year of wrenching i jumped to structures and moved to another city. Now i could do annuals on the weekends and not have a conflict with current employer! Perfect right? HA! Start out doing the annuals in their hanger, no heat, no lights, no supplies. So i try and purchase and be prepared for every possible scenario, show up at 8 am Saturday morning, work till 5, come back the next day at now 7 and finish it all off hopefully by 5 that night. (Family has been ignored all weekend as they were off enjoying the lake and having fun.) While working those 2 days im wishing i had my own spark plug tester( among many other things), i know i need to test after gapping, but a friend who has one is a 20 min drive one way, Well i work that into my day. Cant charge the customer for me not being prepared can I? Nope eat 45 mins. Working away, now comes the local weekend warrior pilot seeing a new face wants to come talk airplane.. Oh joy. So give the courtesy to talk and bam another half hour goes by. Figure might be a potential new customer right, nope never is. So cant charge my customer, so eat another half. Some days more than just one local pilot wants to talk. Their hobby of airplanes is not mine.
So now comes time to bill. Eaten some of the hours of my day and charge the Customer straight billable hours. Have worked the whole weekend and can maybe bill 80% of the time worked. I have supplied oil and by the time i paid freight the price per liter is above the list price on Aircraft Spruce! The go to for every pilot/owner who want to ensure the are treated fairly on the pricing! The bitching and the moaning on the cost of parts and consumables, as if its me who sets them just gets on your nerves after a while. Im not your therapist. The hours spent at home researching the best possible price is not worth it, even with a meager 10% mark up. I have told the customer they need to get the part, guess what? They have no manuals and have no idea what they need, so you need to do the research anyways, spoon feed them what they need to buy, and then still have them ask you to order it in anyways as they dont want to set up an account with the vendor. But they now know what the vendor charges and they expect the same price. ( little hint most vendors dont give discounts to weekend annual performers, we dont have the volume of sales)
Now lets talk about the customer who wants to "help"! Sure ok, I get it, you want to "learn" and keep your cost down. Sigh. So now I'm baby sitting you, giving you tasks like taking off inspection panels, removing seats, cowls etc. I get you to take off every panel on the wing, some of them are not inspection panels but access panels from then the wing was assembled in a jig, but meh, keeps you busy and make you feel productive all the while keeping you our of my hair so i can focus and get the rest of the annual done. My time is valuable you see, I have a weekend off and its here working on your machine. I want to get it done as efficiently as possible. No you cant use that robertson Pk screw that works just as well as the phillips head one to put back on the panel, No i dont want to explain to you why. @#$! me. Now your struggling with the seats coming off on your cessna. I need to stop show you how to crank the seat up high and move it all the way forward blah blah blah. Your helping me has slowed me down and turning this annual into something way longer than it needs to be. Now i have found a concern of something that needs to be addressed. Cant be done this weekend as we need parts, Owner with big crocodile tears now wants to know how much it will cost? and the preverbal "does it have to be changed? Can i run it a little longer?" whaa whaa whaa. now i ha. ve to explain your a grown man, you can do whatever you like. I have told you what is wrong, you can ignore the problem and hope it fixes itself, like hoses that are 50yrs old have been known to do( insert eye roll). I will just write it in the log book as a known hidden defect and you can decide to fix it whenever. Now I'm the asshole. I have devalued their airplane as i have made it less marketable as they wanted to sell it soon. You cant fucking win in this game. It is thankless and the unicorns of good pilot/owners like Pilotdar or Photofly are just that unicorns. The real world of guys who dont visit this forum are plentiful.
I havent even touched on the cost of having your own hanger and the overhead to keep it going. I make more money renting my hanger out for boat storage and motorcycle storage than i do for aircraft storage. Planes take up a lot of floor space. No one wants to pay 500/month to store their aircraft, but 2 boats and 8 motorcycles pay very well. In the spring/summer they are gone, and i have the shop to myself. They pay a retainer to have that space available come fall again.
I am down to only 2 aircraft i maintain on the side now. My weekends are valuable. I have the customers i now want. I have fired all the rest. There is not enough money in the world to make me want to work on their aircraft. Ya im old and crusty, bitter etc. But this is the realistic life of a guy trying to annuals on the side for extra cash, because their full time gig doesnt pay enough.
I agree 1000% with this and experienced almost all of it personally.

The reason I think the OP has a chance is his strong aerosexuality, zero personal life or interest in having one, a raving desperation to please pilot owners, and working at a "great company" that pays poorly enough that he delivers pizza on his time off.

I never had that sort of ambition or motivation. :rolleyes:

I really thought the whole being a hero thing was finally history.

Enjoy sleeping in your truck. It will be a good prepper for when you're living in it.

COOL!
Covered this friend, I have a lovely refrigerator box and a spot picked out down by the river.
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CBAME
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Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by CBAME »

What did you decide to do?
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Heliian
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Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by Heliian »

digits_ wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:01 pm
photofly wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:52 pm I’m boring, I know, but I find that sort of laugh very disrespectful to the customer. It׳s like the pottery jar that says on it “ashes of difficult clients”. Neither projects a professional image.
Yup. Or the classic mousetrap with the "ring to file complaint".

The funny thing is, you only see those labels in places where it can't really be interpreted as a joke.
Options are:
-cheap
-fast
-high quality

You can have 2.
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RedAndWhiteBaron
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Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by RedAndWhiteBaron »

Heliian wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:39 am Options are:
-cheap
-fast
-high quality

You can have 2.
Options are:
- single
- attractive
- mentally stable

You can have 2.
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SmartWrenchMonkey
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Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by SmartWrenchMonkey »

CBAME wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:59 pm What did you decide to do?
I'm working my way into it.
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