Weekend Feild Annuals

This forum has been developed to discuss maintenance topics in Canada.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore

User avatar
Bede
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4427
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:52 am

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by Bede »

photofly wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:03 am With a bit of imagination, you could get a quick-assemble tent that goes over the plane, or at least the engine compartment, and which connects to your ambulance. I’m thinking crime scene protection, here (perhaps that’s not an inapt metaphor?) and presto-hey, instant hangar.
There was a company doing work in Inuvik with a massive hangar that was far too expensive to heat. When they needed to work on a plane, they just put a tent over whatever part they were working on (engine, wing, etc.) and had a Herman Nelson heater heat the tent.
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5931
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by digits_ »

photofly wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:03 am With a bit of imagination, you could get a quick-assemble tent that goes over the plane, or at least the engine compartment, and which connects to your ambulance. I’m thinking crime scene protection, here (perhaps that’s not an inapt metaphor?) and presto-hey, instant hangar.
Oh god now I want to be an AME doing field annuals :D

That would be super cool...
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
SmartWrenchMonkey
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:36 pm

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by SmartWrenchMonkey »

RedAndWhiteBaron wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:33 pm
SmartWrenchMonkey wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:30 pm You guys are optimists.
Your opinion is unique.

The only advice I can give is to be very careful to not consort with any client who may have ever possibly been, in any way, a client of your current employer - or ever will be. As photofly said, it's an instantly fireable offense.

Well that's the negative advice I guess. Here's my positive advice: get an ambulance. Seriously, a used ambulance is a great mobile home for tools, has all kinds of nooks and crannies and drawers, easy access in and out with giant doors, and multiple batteries and electrical systems, just to start. Plus sirens if you make the right deal - and sirens are very cool.

They're generally very used, but I doubt an AME of your lineage would find that a problem.
Ambulance would be great. I'd get places in half the time, traffic jams would be no concern. And if I can rig the siren to play The Ride of the Valkyries I can add a little drama to my arrivals.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
RedAndWhiteBaron
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 813
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:55 pm
Location: In the left seat, admitting my mistakes

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by RedAndWhiteBaron »

SmartWrenchMonkey wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:36 pm Ambulance would be great. I'd get places in half the time, traffic jams would be no concern. And if I can rig the siren to play The Ride of the Valkyries I can add a little drama to my arrivals.
My vote would be for the William Tell Overture. Much more heroic.
---------- ADS -----------
 
I will dance the sky on laughter-silvered wings.
SmartWrenchMonkey
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:36 pm

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by SmartWrenchMonkey »

digits_ wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:33 am
photofly wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:03 am With a bit of imagination, you could get a quick-assemble tent that goes over the plane, or at least the engine compartment, and which connects to your ambulance. I’m thinking crime scene protection, here (perhaps that’s not an inapt metaphor?) and presto-hey, instant hangar.
Oh god now I want to be an AME doing field annuals :D

That would be super cool...
"This shimmy dampener requires.... service."
Then I put my sweet shades on and the intro to Who are you blares from the sirens.
---------- ADS -----------
 
SmartWrenchMonkey
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:36 pm

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by SmartWrenchMonkey »

digits_ wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:33 am
photofly wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:03 am With a bit of imagination, you could get a quick-assemble tent that goes over the plane, or at least the engine compartment, and which connects to your ambulance. I’m thinking crime scene protection, here (perhaps that’s not an inapt metaphor?) and presto-hey, instant hangar.
Oh god now I want to be an AME doing field annuals :D

That would be super cool...
"This shimmy dampener requires.... service."
Then I put my sweet shades on and the intro to Who are you blares from the sirens.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
all_ramped_up
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 465
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:32 pm
Location: Ukraine
Contact:

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by all_ramped_up »

SmartWrenchMonkey wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:36 pm
RedAndWhiteBaron wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:33 pm
SmartWrenchMonkey wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:30 pm You guys are optimists.
Your opinion is unique.

The only advice I can give is to be very careful to not consort with any client who may have ever possibly been, in any way, a client of your current employer - or ever will be. As photofly said, it's an instantly fireable offense.

Well that's the negative advice I guess. Here's my positive advice: get an ambulance. Seriously, a used ambulance is a great mobile home for tools, has all kinds of nooks and crannies and drawers, easy access in and out with giant doors, and multiple batteries and electrical systems, just to start. Plus sirens if you make the right deal - and sirens are very cool.

They're generally very used, but I doubt an AME of your lineage would find that a problem.
Ambulance would be great. I'd get places in half the time, traffic jams would be no concern. And if I can rig the siren to play The Ride of the Valkyries I can add a little drama to my arrivals.
AMO in YBW has a couple former Ambulances kitted out for field maintenance. They do work pretty well for this kind of thing.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Kejidog
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 202
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:55 pm

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by Kejidog »

I have read the posts above and wonder where this would be located and how far the person is willing to travel. I know if this would be tried in Nova Scotia you’d go broke.

After participating in 4 annuals on my 172 and one on my 182 I am constantly amazed at the amount of screws, washers, cotter pins, bolts, etc that get replaced from the shop stocks. I think you’d need a 5 ton cube van to hold every possible consumable part in stock. And don’t even get me started on finding dropped pieces in a open environment. If you love working on planes this might be fun but I personally don’t think you’d make any cash or get any more experience as a mechanic. Maybe in dealing with the nickel and dimers perhaps I’d say you can get that by walking into your company’s accounts receivable department

I am one to promptly pay my bills and love to help my AME to keep him in business and happy to take my calls whenever I have a question. Would I compromise my relationship with him to have a mobile AME to come to my plane. No, not in a second even if he was cheaper, mobile and 2 am drop off etc.

I think you could make more money putting an ad on Kijiji for lawn care. You’d get lots of exercise and keep your air cooled engine skills sharp. (Mostly joking). I have a friend that did this and he makes upwards of $10K a season of pure cash. For the cost of a Honda push mower and a beat up pickup truck.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
RedAndWhiteBaron
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 813
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:55 pm
Location: In the left seat, admitting my mistakes

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by RedAndWhiteBaron »

There must be some way to "pilot" this idea before going whole hog on it. I'm no expert on the regulatory requirements, but certainly there's a way to try it out with a few friends first without a large outlay of funds?

If your current employer is supportive, there may be a way. What about offering your services out to your employer, in an employee capacity, in such a way that they could offer it as a value added service? You'd still need a vehicle and another set of tools, but regulatory and insurance requirements would hopefully be much less cumbersome. I really don't know much about this line of work so I may be off in left field here. But there must be a way to share some of the initial risk with your employer, if you're also willing to share some of the potential reward.

Something else to think about would be asking auto mechanics who offer the same kid of service. I use one occasionally who does good work, who comes to me on a Saturday or Sunday, instead of bringing my car to a shop. Sometimes it boils down to "I can't fix this here, you need a proper auto shop", and that's OK. I pay him for his time regardless. It's not any cheaper, but it's sure as shit a hell of a lot more convenient. Someone like that, I imagine, would have some insights for you. Boat mechanics would also be good to ask for the same reasons.

I'm generally optimistic about this idea (well, I'm just generally an optimist), but as so many people have covered, it's full of caveats. I'd really like to see this work out for you.
---------- ADS -----------
 
I will dance the sky on laughter-silvered wings.
User avatar
AirFrame
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by AirFrame »

digits_ wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:44 pmI'm pretty sure my wife won't sue my AME -or anyone else- if I crash my plane. The thought wouldn't even cross her mind I think. Would your partner do so?
It doesn't matter if your spouse would sue the AME directly. Your insurance would pay out, and the insurance company would go after the AME. It's called subrogation and it's likely a clause in your insurance policy and allowing it is a requirement of settlement.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Kejidog
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 202
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:55 pm

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by Kejidog »

AirFrame wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:10 am
digits_ wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:44 pmI'm pretty sure my wife won't sue my AME -or anyone else- if I crash my plane. The thought wouldn't even cross her mind I think. Would your partner do so?
It doesn't matter if your spouse would sue the AME directly. Your insurance would pay out, and the insurance company would go after the AME. It's called subrogation and it's likely a clause in your insurance policy and allowing it is a requirement of settlement.
So true. The business model for insurance i believe is to encourage prompt billing while sleazing out of payouts. Then when you lawyer up to get your “fair settlement” they cry that everyone gets a lawyer to get a “huge settlement”. After giving the average claimant the bureaucratic run around.

Totally unrelated :As someone who was tboned on a motorcycle i have first hand experience at dealing with them. Not only that the lawyer took his cut.
---------- ADS -----------
 
SeptRepair
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 882
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:41 pm
Location: Wet Coast.

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by SeptRepair »

Been an engineer for over 30 yrs now. I remember being enthusiastic like yourself many moons ago. I worked in a shop pumping out annuals like a puppy mill. Learned on my own with out guidance. Annuals were expected to be done in 8hrs start to finish from initial run up to post run up cowls on. Excuse by management being "they only flew 4hrs last year. nothing to look at it." This mind set although wrong was the norm. The customers came to expect an annual's cost. Trying to break out on my own and give them value and preform the work as expected, would mean i would have to double their annual cost if not triple as the parts that require replacement would also need to be attended to. Also I knew the shop owner i currently worked for would fire my ass, rightfully so.
Fast forward and after a few year of wrenching i jumped to structures and moved to another city. Now i could do annuals on the weekends and not have a conflict with current employer! Perfect right? HA! Start out doing the annuals in their hanger, no heat, no lights, no supplies. So i try and purchase and be prepared for every possible scenario, show up at 8 am Saturday morning, work till 5, come back the next day at now 7 and finish it all off hopefully by 5 that night. (Family has been ignored all weekend as they were off enjoying the lake and having fun.) While working those 2 days im wishing i had my own spark plug tester( among many other things), i know i need to test after gapping, but a friend who has one is a 20 min drive one way, Well i work that into my day. Cant charge the customer for me not being prepared can I? Nope eat 45 mins. Working away, now comes the local weekend warrior pilot seeing a new face wants to come talk airplane.. Oh joy. So give the courtesy to talk and bam another half hour goes by. Figure might be a potential new customer right, nope never is. So cant charge my customer, so eat another half. Some days more than just one local pilot wants to talk. Their hobby of airplanes is not mine.
So now comes time to bill. Eaten some of the hours of my day and charge the Customer straight billable hours. Have worked the whole weekend and can maybe bill 80% of the time worked. I have supplied oil and by the time i paid freight the price per liter is above the list price on Aircraft Spruce! The go to for every pilot/owner who want to ensure the are treated fairly on the pricing! The bitching and the moaning on the cost of parts and consumables, as if its me who sets them just gets on your nerves after a while. Im not your therapist. The hours spent at home researching the best possible price is not worth it, even with a meager 10% mark up. I have told the customer they need to get the part, guess what? They have no manuals and have no idea what they need, so you need to do the research anyways, spoon feed them what they need to buy, and then still have them ask you to order it in anyways as they dont want to set up an account with the vendor. But they now know what the vendor charges and they expect the same price. ( little hint most vendors dont give discounts to weekend annual performers, we dont have the volume of sales)
Now lets talk about the customer who wants to "help"! Sure ok, I get it, you want to "learn" and keep your cost down. Sigh. So now I'm baby sitting you, giving you tasks like taking off inspection panels, removing seats, cowls etc. I get you to take off every panel on the wing, some of them are not inspection panels but access panels from then the wing was assembled in a jig, but meh, keeps you busy and make you feel productive all the while keeping you our of my hair so i can focus and get the rest of the annual done. My time is valuable you see, I have a weekend off and its here working on your machine. I want to get it done as efficiently as possible. No you cant use that robertson Pk screw that works just as well as the phillips head one to put back on the panel, No i dont want to explain to you why. @#$! me. Now your struggling with the seats coming off on your cessna. I need to stop show you how to crank the seat up high and move it all the way forward blah blah blah. Your helping me has slowed me down and turning this annual into something way longer than it needs to be. Now i have found a concern of something that needs to be addressed. Cant be done this weekend as we need parts, Owner with big crocodile tears now wants to know how much it will cost? and the preverbal "does it have to be changed? Can i run it a little longer?" whaa whaa whaa. now i have to explain your a grown man, you can do whatever you like. I have told you what is wrong, you can ignore the problem and hope it fixes itself, like hoses that are 50yrs old have been known to do( insert eye roll). I will just write it in the log book as a known hidden defect and you can decide to fix it whenever. Now I'm the asshole. I have devalued their airplane as i have made it less marketable as they wanted to sell it soon. You cant fucking win in this game. It is thankless and the unicorns of good pilot/owners like Pilotdar or Photofly are just that unicorns. The real world of guys who dont visit this forum are plentiful.
I havent even touched on the cost of having your own hanger and the overhead to keep it going. I make more money renting my hanger out for boat storage and motorcycle storage than i do for aircraft storage. Planes take up a lot of floor space. No one wants to pay 500/month to store their aircraft, but 2 boats and 8 motorcycles pay very well. In the spring/summer they are gone, and i have the shop to myself. They pay a retainer to have that space available come fall again.
I am down to only 2 aircraft i maintain on the side now. My weekends are valuable. I have the customers i now want. I have fired all the rest. There is not enough money in the world to make me want to work on their aircraft. Ya im old and crusty, bitter etc. But this is the realistic life of a guy trying to annuals on the side for extra cash, because their full time gig doesnt pay enough.
---------- ADS -----------
 
How can you tell which one is the pilot when you walk into a bar?....Don't worry he will come up and tell you.
SmartWrenchMonkey
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:36 pm

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by SmartWrenchMonkey »

Kejidog wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:20 pm I have read the posts above and wonder where this would be located and how far the person is willing to travel. I know if this would be tried in Nova Scotia you’d go broke.

After participating in 4 annuals on my 172 and one on my 182 I am constantly amazed at the amount of screws, washers, cotter pins, bolts, etc that get replaced from the shop stocks. I think you’d need a 5 ton cube van to hold every possible consumable part in stock. And don’t even get me started on finding dropped pieces in a open environment. If you love working on planes this might be fun but I personally don’t think you’d make any cash or get any more experience as a mechanic. Maybe in dealing with the nickel and dimers perhaps I’d say you can get that by walking into your company’s accounts receivable department

I am one to promptly pay my bills and love to help my AME to keep him in business and happy to take my calls whenever I have a question. Would I compromise my relationship with him to have a mobile AME to come to my plane. No, not in a second even if he was cheaper, mobile and 2 am drop off etc.

I think you could make more money putting an ad on Kijiji for lawn care. You’d get lots of exercise and keep your air cooled engine skills sharp. (Mostly joking). I have a friend that did this and he makes upwards of $10K a season of pure cash. For the cost of a Honda push mower and a beat up pickup truck.
Thanks for the advice. I can travel quite a distance, geographically I'm in a great location. Hows the market out in Nova Scotia?

Inventory isn't that bad, sure you need lots of stuff but it's manageable. Being immersed in it everyday really helps. I've never seen a guy do a field annual out of a 5 ton, but someone could. I'm not going to. Even just going through all these processes on my own has been great experience.

If you're happy with your maintenance, keep your maintenance. You gotta find the right person for your needs, sounds like you got it.

You might be right my friend, but I love aviation.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4053
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by PilotDAR »

Inventory isn't that bad, sure you need lots of stuff but it's manageable
In past times, I maintained an airworthy parts stores, for fabrication I did for specialty aviation customers. I had the advantage of nearly always knowing before I needed it, what I'd need, and some extra budget to stock a little extra of that, and some more extra around the edges (longer and shorter bolts and rivets, for example).

Planning and stocking it was one thing, maintaining and documenting the required traceability was a big job on it's own! I was required to provide the certification documents through, which I did. My clients were prepared to pay the shop time required to do that, it was not none!

The other thing which I have seen omissions in has been aircraft specific maintenance check sheets. Yeah, I know you can just refer to Car 625, Appendix B & C, but you still have to account for the ICA which could be required for every mod on the plane. I've been the holder of several Canadian and FAA STC's since 2002, and I get several calls a year asking if my ICA, at revision A, is still the valid version. "Yes, it is." "Thank you, just checking...". An AMO doing their job properly.

For the owners who want to "help", well, their attitude is in the positive direction... So direct them to the paperwork that they can do before they bring you the plane. An airplane specific maintenance checklist, which details every task, the standard or reference for each of those tasks, and all of the applicable ICA's at the correct revisions, and, a recent AD search. I find that by the time the owner has actually understood, and documented these properly, they begin to appreciate why proper airplane maintenance costs what it does, it's not just wrench turning.... And, they're probably exhausted, so they'll be happy to just give you the plane, and go on about the rest of their weekend with their family!
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
AirFrame
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by AirFrame »

SeptRepair wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:10 amBeen an engineer for over 30 yrs now. ...
... But this is the realistic life of a guy trying to annuals on the side for extra cash, because their full time gig doesnt pay enough.
Excellent post. It's enough to make one want to get out of the business and go open a craft brewery... ;)
---------- ADS -----------
 
SmartWrenchMonkey
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:36 pm

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by SmartWrenchMonkey »

PilotDAR wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:40 pm
Inventory isn't that bad, sure you need lots of stuff but it's manageable
In past times, I maintained an airworthy parts stores, for fabrication I did for specialty aviation customers. I had the advantage of nearly always knowing before I needed it, what I'd need, and some extra budget to stock a little extra of that, and some more extra around the edges (longer and shorter bolts and rivets, for example).

Planning and stocking it was one thing, maintaining and documenting the required traceability was a big job on it's own! I was required to provide the certification documents through, which I did. My clients were prepared to pay the shop time required to do that, it was not none!

The other thing which I have seen omissions in has been aircraft specific maintenance check sheets. Yeah, I know you can just refer to Car 625, Appendix B & C, but you still have to account for the ICA which could be required for every mod on the plane. I've been the holder of several Canadian and FAA STC's since 2002, and I get several calls a year asking if my ICA, at revision A, is still the valid version. "Yes, it is." "Thank you, just checking...". An AMO doing their job properly.

For the owners who want to "help", well, their attitude is in the positive direction... So direct them to the paperwork that they can do before they bring you the plane. An airplane specific maintenance checklist, which details every task, the standard or reference for each of those tasks, and all of the applicable ICA's at the correct revisions, and, a recent AD search. I find that by the time the owner has actually understood, and documented these properly, they begin to appreciate why proper airplane maintenance costs what it does, it's not just wrench turning.... And, they're probably exhausted, so they'll be happy to just give you the plane, and go on about the rest of their weekend with their family!
Inventory is indeed a massive job, luckily like you I have some experience maintaining a real parts stores. It's proving to be a bit of a challenge, my excel sheets are growing very quickly. Luckily I'm pretty good at excel, getting everything programmed the way I want is coming together nicely so far, kinda.

Everyone's favorite subject, airplane specific maintenance checklists actually provided by an owner. In my experience this is less than a 1 in 10 situation. Almost every aircraft's first visit through the shop needs one made up and I assume this will be a trend for me independently too. So my plan is anyone who doesn't have one, gets one. If I get a call from an owner who doesn't have one then that is the first thing we do to save you some money, I'll walk you through it, I'll send you the templates, checklists, and tell you where to look. You do your best and I'll check it. I'll still have to spend some time going through it at the first annual but far less if I have it beforehand. I'm also perfectly happy to charge someone to do it.

Personally, I have far more positive experiences doing owner assisted annuals than negative experiences. Working weekends, I hope to find customers who want to be present and involved.
---------- ADS -----------
 
SmartWrenchMonkey
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:36 pm

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by SmartWrenchMonkey »

AirFrame wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:39 am
SeptRepair wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:10 amBeen an engineer for over 30 yrs now. ...
... But this is the realistic life of a guy trying to annuals on the side for extra cash, because their full time gig doesnt pay enough.
Excellent post. It's enough to make one want to get out of the business and go open a craft brewery... ;)
Different strokes for different folks. I'll be honest here, it sounded negative until he got to the owning a hangar part, after that I forgot the negative stuff. I own debt, and not the useful debt. I'll work harder than the next guy because my weekend are not valuable and I'm just happy to not be delivering pizza anymore. It was embarrassing the few times I delivered to aircraft owners who bring their aircraft to the shop.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Pat Richard
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 896
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: all over

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by Pat Richard »

SeptRepair wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:10 am Been an engineer for over 30 yrs now. I remember being enthusiastic like yourself many moons ago. I worked in a shop pumping out annuals like a puppy mill. Learned on my own with out guidance. Annuals were expected to be done in 8hrs start to finish from initial run up to post run up cowls on. Excuse by management being "they only flew 4hrs last year. nothing to look at it." This mind set although wrong was the norm. The customers came to expect an annual's cost. Trying to break out on my own and give them value and preform the work as expected, would mean i would have to double their annual cost if not triple as the parts that require replacement would also need to be attended to. Also I knew the shop owner i currently worked for would fire my ass, rightfully so.
Fast forward and after a few year of wrenching i jumped to structures and moved to another city. Now i could do annuals on the weekends and not have a conflict with current employer! Perfect right? HA! Start out doing the annuals in their hanger, no heat, no lights, no supplies. So i try and purchase and be prepared for every possible scenario, show up at 8 am Saturday morning, work till 5, come back the next day at now 7 and finish it all off hopefully by 5 that night. (Family has been ignored all weekend as they were off enjoying the lake and having fun.) While working those 2 days im wishing i had my own spark plug tester( among many other things), i know i need to test after gapping, but a friend who has one is a 20 min drive one way, Well i work that into my day. Cant charge the customer for me not being prepared can I? Nope eat 45 mins. Working away, now comes the local weekend warrior pilot seeing a new face wants to come talk airplane.. Oh joy. So give the courtesy to talk and bam another half hour goes by. Figure might be a potential new customer right, nope never is. So cant charge my customer, so eat another half. Some days more than just one local pilot wants to talk. Their hobby of airplanes is not mine.
So now comes time to bill. Eaten some of the hours of my day and charge the Customer straight billable hours. Have worked the whole weekend and can maybe bill 80% of the time worked. I have supplied oil and by the time i paid freight the price per liter is above the list price on Aircraft Spruce! The go to for every pilot/owner who want to ensure the are treated fairly on the pricing! The bitching and the moaning on the cost of parts and consumables, as if its me who sets them just gets on your nerves after a while. Im not your therapist. The hours spent at home researching the best possible price is not worth it, even with a meager 10% mark up. I have told the customer they need to get the part, guess what? They have no manuals and have no idea what they need, so you need to do the research anyways, spoon feed them what they need to buy, and then still have them ask you to order it in anyways as they dont want to set up an account with the vendor. But they now know what the vendor charges and they expect the same price. ( little hint most vendors dont give discounts to weekend annual performers, we dont have the volume of sales)
Now lets talk about the customer who wants to "help"! Sure ok, I get it, you want to "learn" and keep your cost down. Sigh. So now I'm baby sitting you, giving you tasks like taking off inspection panels, removing seats, cowls etc. I get you to take off every panel on the wing, some of them are not inspection panels but access panels from then the wing was assembled in a jig, but meh, keeps you busy and make you feel productive all the while keeping you our of my hair so i can focus and get the rest of the annual done. My time is valuable you see, I have a weekend off and its here working on your machine. I want to get it done as efficiently as possible. No you cant use that robertson Pk screw that works just as well as the phillips head one to put back on the panel, No i dont want to explain to you why. @#$! me. Now your struggling with the seats coming off on your cessna. I need to stop show you how to crank the seat up high and move it all the way forward blah blah blah. Your helping me has slowed me down and turning this annual into something way longer than it needs to be. Now i have found a concern of something that needs to be addressed. Cant be done this weekend as we need parts, Owner with big crocodile tears now wants to know how much it will cost? and the preverbal "does it have to be changed? Can i run it a little longer?" whaa whaa whaa. now i ha. ve to explain your a grown man, you can do whatever you like. I have told you what is wrong, you can ignore the problem and hope it fixes itself, like hoses that are 50yrs old have been known to do( insert eye roll). I will just write it in the log book as a known hidden defect and you can decide to fix it whenever. Now I'm the asshole. I have devalued their airplane as i have made it less marketable as they wanted to sell it soon. You cant fucking win in this game. It is thankless and the unicorns of good pilot/owners like Pilotdar or Photofly are just that unicorns. The real world of guys who dont visit this forum are plentiful.
I havent even touched on the cost of having your own hanger and the overhead to keep it going. I make more money renting my hanger out for boat storage and motorcycle storage than i do for aircraft storage. Planes take up a lot of floor space. No one wants to pay 500/month to store their aircraft, but 2 boats and 8 motorcycles pay very well. In the spring/summer they are gone, and i have the shop to myself. They pay a retainer to have that space available come fall again.
I am down to only 2 aircraft i maintain on the side now. My weekends are valuable. I have the customers i now want. I have fired all the rest. There is not enough money in the world to make me want to work on their aircraft. Ya im old and crusty, bitter etc. But this is the realistic life of a guy trying to annuals on the side for extra cash, because their full time gig doesnt pay enough.
I agree 1000% with this and experienced almost all of it personally.

The reason I think the OP has a chance is his strong aerosexuality, zero personal life or interest in having one, a raving desperation to please pilot owners, and working at a "great company" that pays poorly enough that he delivers pizza on his time off.

I never had that sort of ambition or motivation. :rolleyes:

I really thought the whole being a hero thing was finally history.

Enjoy sleeping in your truck. It will be a good prepper for when you're living in it.

COOL!
---------- ADS -----------
 
SeptRepair
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 882
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:41 pm
Location: Wet Coast.

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by SeptRepair »

SmartWrenchMonkey wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:15 pm Different strokes for different folks. I'll be honest here, it sounded negative until he got to the owning a hangar part, after that I forgot the negative stuff. I own debt, and not the useful debt. I'll work harder than the next guy because my weekend are not valuable and I'm just happy to not be delivering pizza anymore. It was embarrassing the few times I delivered to aircraft owners who bring their aircraft to the shop.
Please dont forget the negative! Come back and re read my post in a couple years. I wish you luck. I really do. I see myself in your posting. I used to clean restaurants and movie theaters at night, while i worked full time during the day as a licensed engineer. Its humbling when your close friends know what you do for a "career" and see you mopping floors and picking chewing gum off the undersides of seats. Boy do i relate to your comment of delivering pizza. I was embarrassed, but i still needed to pay rent and eat.
Dont sell yourself short. Your weekends are valuable. Your time is valuable. Charge accordingly. If shop rate is 110.00$ charge at least 85$. You dont have the overhead of having a hanger, but you have knowledge. Make the owners pay for your service. If you freeze yourself working out in the elements or laying in the mud you deserve to be compensated for accepting those shit conditions. If they want to help let them. If they slow you down, smile, take your time to work with them and charge them for every hour you hold their hand. Dont flat rate your annuals.
Im teaching you where i went wrong. This advice is worth as much as your paying me for it!
BTW , the hanger i have? I didnt get it making money in aviation. I made my money in real-estate and the stock market. I dont read about airplanes at the end of the day. I read about investing/economics.
Good luck kid!
---------- ADS -----------
 
How can you tell which one is the pilot when you walk into a bar?....Don't worry he will come up and tell you.
SmartWrenchMonkey
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:36 pm

Re: Weekend Feild Annuals

Post by SmartWrenchMonkey »

SeptRepair wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:55 pm
SmartWrenchMonkey wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:15 pm Different strokes for different folks. I'll be honest here, it sounded negative until he got to the owning a hangar part, after that I forgot the negative stuff. I own debt, and not the useful debt. I'll work harder than the next guy because my weekend are not valuable and I'm just happy to not be delivering pizza anymore. It was embarrassing the few times I delivered to aircraft owners who bring their aircraft to the shop.
Please dont forget the negative! Come back and re read my post in a couple years. I wish you luck. I really do. I see myself in your posting. I used to clean restaurants and movie theaters at night, while i worked full time during the day as a licensed engineer. Its humbling when your close friends know what you do for a "career" and see you mopping floors and picking chewing gum off the undersides of seats. Boy do i relate to your comment of delivering pizza. I was embarrassed, but i still needed to pay rent and eat.
Dont sell yourself short. Your weekends are valuable. Your time is valuable. Charge accordingly. If shop rate is 110.00$ charge at least 85$. You dont have the overhead of having a hanger, but you have knowledge. Make the owners pay for your service. If you freeze yourself working out in the elements or laying in the mud you deserve to be compensated for accepting those shit conditions. If they want to help let them. If they slow you down, smile, take your time to work with them and charge them for every hour you hold their hand. Dont flat rate your annuals.
Im teaching you where i went wrong. This advice is worth as much as your paying me for it!
BTW , the hanger i have? I didnt get it making money in aviation. I made my money in real-estate and the stock market. I dont read about airplanes at the end of the day. I read about investing/economics.
Good luck kid!
Thanks bud. I do really appreciate the response, it's good to hear from some people who have been there done that and can relate to the struggle. It's not easy working in this industry, wages just don't move. Shop rate goes up and boss buys a new lake house, but there is no money for a raise, suck it up buttercup. Well I still gotta pay rent and eat.

Don't think i'm dismissing your warnings. I am prepared for days exactly like you describe, some days are going to be really hard, I just have to accept its part of the job. I'm not one of those guys who only made the "right" decisions in life, I've screwed up a lot and I have to pay for it. If I could go back, I'd kick my 18 year old ass for signing papers he didn't understand and trusting adults who said I'd make 40/hr straight out of school!

As of right now I'm very close to your recommended rate. I think it will cover my expenses and allow me to take some profit for myself. If an owner wants a flat rate inspection, there are several AMO's I can direct them too, been there, done that, I don't do that anymore. I have problems charging someone for 14 hours work and then actually doing only 4 hours of work because "they barely flew 50 hours". I'd warn anyone paying for a flat rate to stay and watch your inspection, it is literally the only way to make sure you are getting maintenance. When I was an apprentice I even witnessed a popular AMO owner (many of you know him, his business is growing) lie directly to an owners face that his airplane would get a 18 hour annual inspection. We didn't even run the engine, cowls never came off, airplane just sat in the hanger for 2 days. To top it off the AMO charged the owner for consumables!

Again I really appreciate the advice, you and I have quite a bit in common. Honestly, I wouldn't have the opportunity to do this at all if it weren't for Gamestop, I'm too poor for real estate.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Maintenance”