Future AME Discouraged

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Stumper
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by Stumper »

A very raw and real post bhmve. Having little money and a wife and kids to provide for makes the glory fade pretty fast for all but a few. Especially when you're required to work shifts and places that make you routinely miss the people and moments that really matter. My dad once told me as he was battling cancer that his whole life boiled down to just a handful of important memories. I don't like to think about how many of those I have missed through the years
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azimuthaviation
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by azimuthaviation »

iflyforpie wrote:Yep.... sorry but buying a type endorsement--whether you are an AME or a pilot--is just setting yourself up for more abuse. Type specific training should be paid for by the company--companies who should factor this cost in as part of doing business. The only time it might make sense to buy an endorsement is if you are running a very good contracting company and you can justify the investment based on a guaranteed rate of return. Guys who are successful contractors.. both AMEs and pilots... got their type ratings paid for by previous companies and then jumped ship when the time was right.

If you are going to throw ten grand away, at least blow it on something interesting like a week in Vegas or high risk stocks. Your rate of return will be much higher if you are successful and if not... what have you lost in comparison buying a type rating that will take you years to pay off--that is if it even gets you a job?

And yeah... $3/hr for a whole pile more headaches, BS, and responsibility...? No thanks. I get a kick out of those who want endorsements and ACAs so badly. :D
Yes and No. Im avionics so its a little different, but to me it seems when someone gets a type rating through a company they pay for it in years of service before and after the course. When a company sends you on course they can hold you at a lower wage for longer because as soon as you leave you get a bill for the training. Meanwhile you might be missing out on a better opportunity (there are always better opportunities).

And yes, companies should pay for type training, since according to the regs they have to provide it.
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seamus
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by seamus »

bhmve wrote:I gradded in 2011 and I went straight into helicopters. I wanted to work on helicopters so that was my choice. I got a job as an apprentice making 13 bux an hour. No benefits, no holidays, no OT... crappy work environment. I told myself it was part of the process in order to get my AME license. After a year my wage went to 15 and change an hour and I was maxed out as an apprentice. I didnt quit because I had the opportunity to get a 212 endorsement out of them. Im getting my license now in a month and I have a really bad taste in my mouth. If i could go back in time I would not have taken Aircraft Maintenance. This was a terrible career choice so far. I still dont have a type course (they want to get an in house training program set up) I make no money and have gone so far into debt its ridiculous. I got in thinking there was a "shortage" of AME's? BS! there are TONS of old guys still working who have no intention of quitting any time soon because they cant afford it.
If youre ok with making not enough money and being treated like shit all the time then go for it. Get that AME license. As for me, if I could go back in time knowing what I know now, no way!
Also, if you plan on getting married and having kids... whoa! Just ask any AME what thats like.

Now I may sound bitter and I have only worked at one place. But the reason I am so frustrated is because I am married with two kids. Im just saying that if youre tied down this job is not for you. You need to keep your options open in this industry. If you are willing to walk out that door you are far better off. I am stuck making no money, no type course, huge debt because I am not willing to get a divorce. how fucked up is that?

You invest 5 years of your life and a shit load of money to get your license for what?? 60k a year? thats not enough money. I was told you can make 100k a year, which is true but you have to be able to go where ever whenever. just keep that in mind before you decide if this is for you.

This rant is all over the place but pretty much I just hate where I work and my personal experience has been horrible so far. Even if it gets better at a different company, the 5 year investment and debt and eating Kraft dinner and spam every night or starving while living in a shoebox is not fucking worth it!
Bmhve - I don't mean to be a prick here but you sound awfully jaded for a guy that's not even licenced yet. One thing's for sure - it will be damn hard to make 100k in your first year as a licenced engineer, down the road 5-10 years later it's not a problem, especially in the helicopter world but certainly not right at the beginning (though it does happen from time to time)

Second thing, nobody ever said there's a shortage of AMEs, that's a rather common misconception but... to quote a famous saying in this industry: " there is a big shortage of highly-skilled and CHEAP AMEs " :lol:

If one is setting out to work in the helicopter industry and hopes to break the six-figure income level IFR, offshore work is what one should really focus on. Try getting on with someone that operates AW139s or S92s, stick with that for 4-5 years and Bob's you uncle. You may not like the things I say here but these are the facts of life. How you get from where you are today onto some of that new technology is up to you but from where I'm sitting the off-shore helicopter job market seems virtually endless right now. And yes, many old engineers that have made handsome living for many years are now leaving this industry creating even more job vacancies.

Cheers
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bhmve
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by bhmve »

Hey seamus good reply. I totally understand what you're saying. I was more talking about how I am treated and what I have had to go through in order to get my license. As for money, I know there is potential but in the end there are lots of other jobs out there that pay well with a lot less BS. I just wished I had the ability to move on and get a job with a decent company. Im just speaking from my own personal experience.
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dstechnical
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by dstechnical »

as a contract AME for many years i have paid for a few endorsements. some worked out other did not. I dont like to feel obligated to a company. you can demand top; dollar and leave when you want. Want to make 6 figures be prepared to leave home, and also remember there is hardly no benefits in this industry so you need a good income to support your retirement. where i live a heavy duty mechanic demands $50/hr plus benefits. My 23 yr old son makes 350- 700/day drilling in the mines. try to get him to apprentice as an AME for $12-15/hr i love aviation but i also like to eat have a house, feed my kids, put them thru school etc,When I see jobs asking for 10 year plus AMes and paying $23-25/hr, you got to ask yourself how much of a discount you want to take for the luv of the job. the shop reate to get your ATV fixed is now $100/hr, try to find an FBO that can get that kind of money out of the average airplane owner!. the ATV mechanic makes $30/hr plus benefits. Aviation has always had an aura about and companies have always taken advantage of it. When tell someone what I do they always think it is the best job and I must be paid like I am a doctor. When i tell them the average wage, and that the guy repairing his car is making more money, they think i am lying. Aviation is great, but it also demands many sacrifices, but the pay does not usually compensate for the sacrifices.
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motox415
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by motox415 »

A big +1.
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CentCollStud1234
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by CentCollStud1234 »

According this this topic "Future AME Discouraged",
How about Future A&P?
How about others aviation mechanics in other countries?
Can I assume aviation mechanic jobs have no future?
I want to change into this career and I don't want another bad career move in my early 30s.
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GyvAir
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by GyvAir »

I think it's been said about a gross of times in as many different ways in these stickied maintenance forum threads:
There is a rewarding future for the aspiring AME who understands that the rewards they will reap in their career will only be proportional to what they put into it.
If you apply yourself in school, get good grades rather than scrape by, go out and get that job for the summer, work hard at it and impress the people that can get you the nod to the full time job at graduation and continue to show up to work, contribute, learn and take on new challenges... you will be as satisfied, happy and remunerated as well as in most other trades.
Coast through school hiding in the corners, only doing what you absolutely need to to get by, take that attitude to the interview (and the job, should you manage to get hired) and you will have a bitterly disappointing aviation career.

Do what you love and/or are good at; enjoyment will come naturally and the money will follow.
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God of Store keepers
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by God of Store keepers »

GyvAir is right. Out of a class of 12, 4 will get AME jobs within 5 months of Grad. these four will how ever have excellent grades and attendance, thus approved status. be keen and foster good relationships with instructors. This is important, be a keener, ask questions. The companies always call the school and the Instructors always give out more information then is legal. those who just cruise through and don't have a instructors reference will not find a good paying job below the 49th parallel. Come out with acceptable and kiss your 8 grand away, maybe you can find something in manufacturing, Boeing is hiring like crazy, so was Bomb. and Viking.
If you want to make good money, helicopters. Start in helicopters, get endorsed on the Astar, 205, 206, 212 and Twinstar, have a real desire to work in the bush half the year and its all gravy.
Don't listen to pilots, Cargojet pays its AME's more then a pilot Captain. There are good fixed wing jobs but you must be prepared to travel.
What else, oh ya work on being a good trouble shooter, my sister can change parts. For example said company like Cargojet sends you to NewWark to get a 727 up and running. Fail and they will never send you to trouble shoot another airplane, you will be stuck in Heavy maintenance.

That's some of my advice, I'll post if I hear of some opportunities like Cargojet, now, huge contract job in Iqualluit, get resume in, get packed.
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God of Store keepers
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by God of Store keepers »

According this this topic "Future AME Discouraged",
How about Future A&P?
How about others aviation mechanics in other countries?
Can I assume aviation mechanic jobs have no future?
I want to change into this career and I don't want another bad career move in my early 30s.

A&P is the US term, whats the difference? tonnes. The IACO more easily recognizes the Canadian and other countries AME programmes because things are done differently in the US. Wan't to work abroad? get AME training, avoid US training.
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NeverBlue
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by NeverBlue »

After a year my wage went to 15 and change an hour
...from $13 to $15 (20%) in one year and that's not enough?????...and you haven't even got a license yet???
I make no money and have gone so far into debt its ridiculous.
...you make it sound like rocket science!

Just some general advice for all:

get educated, get a career, get certifications and certificates, get a good job with good pay,

THEN get a family, mortgage, carpayment, debt!!!!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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flatface
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by flatface »

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Last edited by flatface on Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stumper
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by Stumper »

+1

Very well put.
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CanMaintGrad
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by CanMaintGrad »

Wow this was quite the read. I find it weird no one has brought up the skills of an AME. In terms of working a job that allows for the development of so many different skills. Some of the AMEs I know are incredible craftsman, they understand so many different components and systems and have the skills to build or repair almost anything.
I don't think it should be overlooked that it is important for some young people to be skillful. Some of us hold to the idea that its really about what you can do, a expensive qualification might help but its the skills in your hands and the knowledge in your head that really matter.
So to the guys who are saying avoid the industry or get out of it do you feel like you would be as skilled today in so many different areas if you hadn't been in aviation? Isn't there value in going to work and spending the shift working on your skills? familiarizing yourself with electronics, ventilation, mechanics, hydraulics, pneumatics, this list goes on and on.
Some AMEs have homebuilt aircraft, it flies and they built it in the garage. That is a great achievement and why do it? because they can.
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Dash 27
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by Dash 27 »

Everyone can rant on, and go for it. Isn't that what these forums are for?

I could care less about what evryone is ranting about, but back to the base topic and I'm going to be honest here. If you want to fix stuff and make money, stay out of aviation "PERIOD". If you don't cut it in automotive, aviation isn't your direction. You'll make less money, you have no life (if you want to get anywhere with it), and you can't pull over on the shoulder when your engine quits. Dont get me wrong, I love my job and I'm good at it. I've traveled the world from the north pole to the south pole and overseas. Ive been everywhere i wanted to go and got paid to do it.

What every nuwbie needs to know is this. AME is not a recognized trade. Skills are not transferrable. If you're into it for any length of time and want to switch careers, you're screwed unless you know someone willing to sign you off up to 3rd year apprentice to even be able to pay your bills. The bottom line is that any career in aviation is a lifestyle, and be prepared to make sacrifices to be sucessful. If youre passionate, go for it but, don't cheat yourself, if you don't see yourself sticking it out by the time you get lisenced, don't hesitate, get the hell out.

PS: the industry is fu*ked right now, thank TC and SMS for taking the experience off the floor. How are the experienced AME's supoosed to train apprentices when they're forced to push paper?
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NeverBlue
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by NeverBlue »

Skills are not transferrable
???????????????????????

...electrons flow differently in aviation electronics????

:shock:
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212wrench
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by 212wrench »

Piston engines work differently as well. Composites cure differently and are laid up differently. Brakes are different, as is the whole brake system. Bolts, screws, nuts and washers, totally different. Turbine engines in pumping stations, no similarity to aircraft engines at all!!!??. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Dash 27
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by Dash 27 »

by skills r not transferrable, I mean we are not a recognized "TRADE" in Canada. We have to start from scratch if we want to change careers. ie. education, apprenticeship hours etc...
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NeverBlue
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by NeverBlue »

there are tonnes of jobs out there that aren't considered "TRADES"

...transportation, communication, manufacturing, power generation.


a few years ago there was a mass exodus of avionics techs going to public transit...they certainly didn't have to start all over...some went right out of AME basic training schools with no education in public transit at all.

I'm not sure what connection you're making between recognized trades and transferrable skills.

If you can maintain aircraft communication systems you can maintain pretty much any communication system with minimal training.
If you can maintain aircraft navigation systems you can maintain any navigation systems with minimal training.
If you can maintain aircraft cabin entertainment systems.....

If you can maintain aircraft gas turbine engines you can maintain any gas turbine engine in other industries.

If you can maintain electric motors and generators on aircraft...guess what?

anyone can fix cars and trucks and boats and busses and trains and golf carts and motorcycles and scooters and radios and cell phones and computers and alarm systems etc...you don't HAVE to be licensed for any of them.
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The Weasel
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by The Weasel »

Yes, it is not a recognized trade because an AME licence doesn't allow you to carry out the work: it's an inspection and certification licence. It is unfortunately a bit of a middle area gray zone (not a trade and not a degree), however, for those willing to pursue it, the inspection and certification aspect can be used to your advantage outside of aviation (ie: transferable) in particular if you're wanting to go the auditing/quality/QA route.

There are some organizations working on getting AME apprentices recognized as a trade, and there are some government and other programs (and likely varies province to province) that provide some financial/tax/training credits in that respect. Some people say that getting the AME industry away from the inspection/certification licence and more towards a trade would drive down wages and dilute quality (think of large MROs having shops full of half-trained ACAs/SCAs to do the work but only a handful of licenced AMEs to sign the books at the end).

While AME skills might not be directly transferable, having the mechanical and troubleshooting background is a general skill transferable to many industries. If you know how to troubleshoot and fix stuff, you can do more than just aviation. The world is full of stuff that needs fixing and maintaining day-to-day.

At the end of the day, being an AME isn't for everyone and it has it's pros and cons.
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