Do you log landings

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rotorspeed
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Do you log landings

Post by rotorspeed » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:30 pm

When I started flying in the 90's there was no talk of logging landings. I guess it's more common in the states. What gives I never started so though it was a waste. Anyone else?
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by FL_CH » Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:13 am

Logging takeoffs and landings might be required for the 5-in-6 months passenger carrying currency. I log night takeoffs and landing because those are relatively rare. Depending on how frequently you fly, you might want to log day to+landings too.
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by AirFrame » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:14 am

I log them because the number goes up higher than my total hours... :P

Seriously though, I had a discussion once with an old airforce pilot who pointed out that the number of landings was more indicative of the level of experience than the number of hours total... One can fly for 4 hours and do one landing, or one can do 4 hours of circuits... Who will be better at landing after that? I started logging them about half-way through my private license, and later on went back and made a best estimate for the first few flights.

Other than the number of landings for passenger currency, there's no other reason that i'm aware of.
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digits_
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by digits_ » Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:47 am

Of course. Why not? Started doing that right away as a PPL student. It was nice to see those numbers go up.
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by CpnCrunch » Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:29 am

I don't log landings, as my logbook doesn't have that column. The assumption is that each flight I take off and land once. If not, I write something like "did 5 touch+gos" in the comments. No big deal.
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by goingnowherefast » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:39 pm

What does the CARs say?
401.08 (1) Every applicant for, and every holder of, a flight crew permit, licence or rating shall maintain a personal log in accordance with subsection (2) and with the personnel licensing standards for the documentation of

(a) experience acquired in respect of the issuance of the flight crew permit, licence or rating; and

(b) recency.

(2) A personal log that is maintained for the purposes referred to in paragraphs (1)(a) and (b) shall contain the holder’s name and the following information in respect of each flight:

(a) the date of the flight;

(b) the type of aircraft and its registration mark;

(c) the flight crew position in which the holder acted;

(d) the flight conditions with respect to day, night, VFR and IFR;

(e) in the case of a flight in an aeroplane or helicopter, the place of departure and the place of arrival;

(f) in the case of a flight in an aeroplane, all of the intermediate take-offs and landings;

(g) the flight time;

(h) in the case of a flight in a glider, the method of launch used for the flight; and

(i) in the case of a flight in a balloon, the method of inflation used for the flight.

(3) No person shall make an entry in a personal log unless the person

(a) is the holder of the log; or

(b) has been authorized to make the entry by the holder of the log.
I do one entry per day in my book, and write in the number of takeoffs and landings in day and night along with the route and everything else required by that regulation.
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by 455tt » Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:07 pm

Remember as well that it is not "take-offs and landings" combined for day and for night, as most logbooks have, but rather, it is take-offs by day, take-offs by night, landings by day, and landings by night.

For example, if you take-off at day, then land at night, you would not log a "take-off and landing" at day and a "take-off and landing" at night; you would instead log a take-off at day and a landing at night. This becomes important for night currency purposes; you can't combine the take-offs and landings.
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by W5 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:24 pm

Once upon a time we used to do 150 landings and take-offs in a day (each). That was in a Stearman spreading fertilizer. 3 of us for 3 days at the time. Adds up quickly.
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by C.W.E. » Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:38 pm

That was in a Stearman spreading fertilizer. 3 of us for 3 days at the time. Adds up quickly.
Yes, and it sure did tell the story of how accurate your flying was as the crop grew. :mrgreen:

I can't think of a more satisfying sound than a Stearman working a field early in the morning.

AAhhh, the good old days.
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by JasonE » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:03 pm

I only log take-offs and landings for night flying. I barely seem to get enough to stay current these days for night flying. Often requires some circuits before taking friends for a flight.
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by AirFrame » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:54 am

JasonE wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:03 pm
I only log take-offs and landings for night flying. I barely seem to get enough to stay current these days for night flying. Often requires some circuits before taking friends for a flight.
It's fairly common to see someone taxi out and bang out 5 quick circuits solo right after the sun sets, and then taxi in and load up with people. It meets the wording in the regs, but it sure doesn't meet the intent.
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by JasonE » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:56 pm

You are correct, certainly not ideal but legal.
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by photofly » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:33 pm

AirFrame wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:54 am
It's fairly common to see someone taxi out and bang out 5 quick circuits solo right after the sun sets, and then taxi in and load up with people. It meets the wording in the regs, but it sure doesn't meet the intent.
Five quick circuits right after sunset doesn't meet the regulation at all. For flying purposes, night begins when the sun is 6° below the horizon, which is typically 30 mins after sunset.

Fly five quick circuits, immediately after the end of evening civil twilight - that meets both the regulation, and its intent.
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by C.W.E. » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:04 pm

Fly five quick circuits, immediately after the end of evening civil twilight - that meets both the regulation, and its intent.
It is even better to do the five circuits in five minutes or less.

Less fuel burnt.

Less wasted time.

More attention to accurate flying.
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by photofly » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:40 pm

CYHM has a 10,000' runway and is amenable to multiple touch and goes :-)
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by AirFrame » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:36 am

photofly wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:33 pm
AirFrame wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:54 am
It's fairly common to see someone taxi out and bang out 5 quick circuits solo right after the sun sets, and then taxi in and load up with people. It meets the wording in the regs, but it sure doesn't meet the intent.
Five quick circuits right after sunset doesn't meet the regulation at all. For flying purposes, night begins when the sun is 6° below the horizon, which is typically 30 mins after sunset.
Yeah, I assumed everyone would understand that by "sunset" I meant "sunset as it applies to night flying," including the usual 30 minute delay.
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by photofly » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:39 am

Fair enough. Why does five quick touch and go's after night begins not meet the intent of the regulation?
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by Beefitarian » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:45 am

Yup. I do find the total is a squeeze in the little box at the bottom but I like to open the book and see it once in a while.
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by AirFrame » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:35 am

photofly wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:39 am
Fair enough. Why does five quick touch and go's after night begins not meet the intent of the regulation?
Because it seems fairly clear to me that the intent is that you go off and do five flights, not just five tight circuit landings. Thereby expanding your experience flying somewhere at night, not just making landings in near-twilight. The reg is 5 landings in the last 6 months, not in the last 15 minutes.
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Last edited by AirFrame on Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do you log landings

Post by ahramin » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:44 am

Interesting. It's 5 landing in 6 months, not 90 days, and the 6 months is an upper limit, not a lower one.

I don't think the recency rules are there to build experience, they are there for recency. To me 5 solo circuits before taking passengers meets both the intent and the specifics of the regulations. At a certain experience level, further experience is not appreciably helpful but currency is important no matter what the experience level. If the intent of the regulations was a certain number of hours and landings, they would have written them that way.
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by digits_ » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:05 am

AirFrame wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:35 am
photofly wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:39 am
Fair enough. Why does five quick touch and go's after night begins not meet the intent of the regulation?
Because it seems fairly clear to me that the intent is that you go off and do five flights, not just five tight circuit landings. Thereby expanding your experience flying somewhere at night, not just making landings in near-twilight. The reg is 5 landings in the last 90 days, not in the last 15 minutes.
Well if you want to go flying in near-twilight with pax, you need to be current, so it seems only fair you can also achieve that currency in near-twilight conditions. The regulator can't have it both ways...
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Re: Do you log landings

Post by photofly » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:34 am

AirFrame wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:35 am
photofly wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:39 am
Fair enough. Why does five quick touch and go's after night begins not meet the intent of the regulation?
Because it seems fairly clear to me that the intent is that you go off and do five flights, not just five tight circuit landings. Thereby expanding your experience flying somewhere at night, not just making landings in near-twilight. The reg is 5 landings in the last 90 days, not in the last 15 minutes.
I don’t think so. Jurisprudence via the TATC suggests the regulation is there specifically so that people have, individually, handled the controls for the takeoff and landing in night conditions at least five times. Being PIC while the other pilot flies the takeoff or landing doesn’t count. It could easily have been worded to be about being PIC for a night flight of some duration, but it’s not.

If you’ve just done 5 landings 15 minutes ago I’d say you were ideally qualified; if you last landed at night five times in fifteen minutes five months and thirty days ago, I’d say that’s a stretch, but legal, anyway.


30 mins after sunset is actually pretty dark; I’m always surprised that someone without a night rating is permitted to fly in the last 15 mins before the end of evening civil twilight.
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Kirk: This is a dangerous mission. Likely, one of us will die. The landing party will be me, Spock, McCoy, and Ensign Ricky.
Ensign Ricky: Aw, crap.

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Re: Do you log landings

Post by AirFrame » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:46 am

90 days/6 months corrected, my bad.

Maybe it's just me, but I found landing and taking off to be the easiest part of night flying. The harder parts for me were flying without much reference when you're away from the lights of the city, and finding the airport when coming back to it. It seems odd that the intent of the regs would only require that you never leave the circuit, and not require that you use more of the skills necessary for night flying... Like flying on instruments.
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