Flight training schools in BC (or elsewhere in Canada)

[utczulugmt]

I am considering flight schools in Canada for PPL, CPL and other ratings training or a "Professional Pilot Program."

I am not currently physically in Canada though, but I am permanent resident looking to finally make the move to Canada soon and figure I would complement that move with pilot training as possible career change for the future. I have zero experience with aviation.

Overall the British Columbia area seems to have schools I would be inclined to take a further look at but I am very much open to any other suggestions anywhere in Canada.

The schools in BC that I am looking at so far are:

(a) Langley Flight School (there seems to be a lot of favourable reviews here on AVCanada for this school)
(b) Victoria Flying Club
(c) Pacific Flying Club
(d) Pacific Sky Aviation

I have since discovered an additional school in BC called Sea Land Air Flight Centre, however, the last reference I seem to be able to find for this school here on AVCanada was on "Jan 01, 2010" in a post by a "MichaelP."

Can anyone provide any additional information on Sea Land Air Flight Centre (regarding flight training, what is the experience like there, etc)?

I have also been taking a look at Harvs (which along with Langley seems to have very favourable reviews here on AVcanada). I am not too sure about the location though

[HiLo]

Look in the prairies: better weather and typically lower costs (although you still need to do your shopping).

[utczulugmt]

Look in the prairies: better weather and typically lower costs (although you still need to do your shopping).

Thanks HiLo, but can you tell me more about what do you mean by praires? Beyond what I can Google I am not really familiar with locations in Canada.

Can you suggest a few schools in the praries I could take a further look at?

[moocow]

He meant Alberta, Sask., and Manitoba. Vancouver area tend to be expensive in terms of living expense. I don't think MichaelP works for SLA anymore and I don't really have enough experience to give any kind of impression. I had a check out with them but didn't like how the DA20 fly. Be aware of schools asking for money up front also remember that they can't withhold your training record.

[CpnCrunch]

Thanks HiLo, but can you tell me more about what do you mean by praires? Beyond what I can Google I am not really familiar with locations in Canada.

Can you suggest a few schools in the praries I could take a further look at?

Try Harv's Air in Manitoba -- they seem to have a good reputation. They're right in the middle of Canada. Cold in winter and hot in summer, lots of mosquitoes.

Victoria or Vancouver is a lot more interesting than Manitoba, and the scenery is spectacular, but it will cost a lot more for accommodation, and airspace is more congested. You'll spend a lot more time taxiing, waiting for takeoff and getting to the practice area, but it will give you good experience of flying in controlled airspace. Harv's Air's Steinbach operation is at an uncontrolled airport, which means less time waiting.

[HiLo]

Further suggestions (and I don't mean to sound patronizing):
1. Talk to people. Real human beings, en chair et en os, who have experience in that world and who aren't trying to sell you anything. Basically, any former flight instructor, or even any CPL or ATPL holder. The more people you talk to, the better off you are, so long as you have a good bullsh*t filter.

2. Try to pick a school near a TC office. That way, if you doubt what your instructor told you on something related to air law or FTU regulations, ou can waltz down to the TC office and ask someone who isn't out there to take your money. It's saved my ass a lot.

3. You seem to be a little bit uninformed. You may want to read up about Canada, flying in general (I don't know how much experience you have), and how flight training works before coming here.

[utczulugmt]

He meant Alberta, Sask., and Manitoba. Vancouver area tend to be expensive in terms of living expense. I don't think MichaelP works for SLA anymore and I don't really have enough experience to give any kind of impression. I had a check out with them but didn't like how the DA20 fly. Be aware of schools asking for money up front also remember that they can't withhold your training record.

Thanks moocow, I will check out schools in those locations.

Further suggestions (and I don't mean to sound patronizing):
1. Talk to people. Real human beings, en chair et en os, who have experience in that world and who aren't trying to sell you anything. Basically, any former flight instructor, or even any CPL or ATPL holder. The more people you talk to, the better off you are, so long as you have a good bullsh*t filter.

2. Try to pick a school near a TC office. That way, if you doubt what your instructor told you on something related to air law or FTU regulations, ou can waltz down to the TC office and ask someone who isn't out there to take your money. It's saved my ass a lot.

3. You seem to be a little bit uninformed. You may want to read up about Canada, flying in general (I don't know how much experience you have), and how flight training works before coming here.

Thanks for your points HiLo:

[1] Unfortunately, the only real human beings I know who have experience in this world (i.e. the Canadian aviation industry) are the people here on AVCanada.

[2] I will take this into consideration.

[3] Yes, you are indeed correct, I am uninformed. I have zero knowledge about aviation. I thought I would start here (on AVCanada) and googling the various schools to get an idea.

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Try Harv's Air in Manitoba -- they seem to have a good reputation. They're right in the middle of Canada. Cold in winter and hot in summer, lots of mosquitoes.

Victoria or Vancouver is a lot more interesting than Manitoba, and the scenery is spectacular, but it will cost a lot more for accommodation, and airspace is more congested. You'll spend a lot more time taxiing, waiting for takeoff and getting to the practice area, but it will give you good experience of flying in controlled airspace. Harv's Air's Steinbach operation is at an uncontrolled airport, which means less time waiting.

Thanks very much CpnCrunch. I see your comment pointing out the disadvantage to learning in a controlled airspace, but are there any advantages to learning in such an airspace? For someone like myself (i.e. a novice/beginner/zero-knowledge), I assume learning in a controlled airspace would give me more "real world" experience? Similar to how I also assume that a glass cockpit would provide a more "real world" experience especially for someone who intends to one day fly for an airline?

I have been slowly discovering that cost of living in those locations (Vancouver, etc) are indeed expensive but the quality of living is likely "better."

But since I am possibly considering being in the location relatively long term (i.e. 6-9 months), I have to also take into consideration my quality of life not just going to and from school every day.

For example, I have since looked at Cornwall Aviation, they seem relatively good....but their school seems to be located far from everything. Even if I could find accommodation near to the school I am not sure how would I get to and from the school on a daily basis (for 6-9 months, also beyond going to/from school, what else exist in Cornwall? Anyway, I plan to do some more research on them and eventually give them a call.

What I have also noticed (based on what I see here on AVCanada), is that it seems like most people only go to Cornwall just to do MIFR/renewal (apparently Cornwall is the place to go for this in terms of cost and convenience).

Does anyone here have experience with Cornwall Aviation PPL training program?

[CpnCrunch]

I would recommend figuring out where you want to live in Canada, and then going to a school nearby. Call some schools and talk to them. Most of them are friendly and helpful. No school on the west coast will rip you off, except perhaps one beginning with the letter A. From what you're saying, it sounds like Vancouver or Victoria might be ideal if you can find some affordable accommodation. If you buy a car you can commute from somewhere like Duncan to Victoria and live cheaply.

I think Michael P works at Glacier Air in Squamish, which has a lot of good reviews.

Even if you train at an uncontrolled airport, you can still fly to controlled airports so I'm not sure it's really much of an advantage.

[North Shore]

I wouldn't worry too much about the controlled airspace thing - it sounds more intimidating than it is. Most schools will be within an hour of controlled airspace so that you can get your control tower fix that way.
6 to 9 months isn't that long a period of time, in the grand scheme of things. You can always drive into the big city to do whatever. Far better, IMO, to get stuck in at a school and immerse yourself in the flight training. Worry about 'civilization' later. Also, there's a pretty good chance, if you start your career in Canada that you ar going to get your first job in a place a lot further than one hour from a big city...

[lhalliday]

Please don't make the mistake of equating "British Columbia" with the southwestern corner of the province.

All flight schools teach the same syllabus, and you will be tested to the same standards, both as set by Transport Canada.

Langley Flying School taught me to fly. They are friendly, and Langley Airport is adjacent to Glen Valley. The main runway at Langley is tiny, so you learn stabilized approaches early. Their fleet of airplanes is modest (four Cherokee 140s, a 152 and a Seneca), and aircraft availability was occasionally an issue.

I've done some follow-on flying with Pacific Flying Club. They have a substantial fleet of 152s and 172s and a couple of Senecas. Boundary Bay is a spiffy airport with nice long runways, but it's sometimes too busy for its own good, and it's a ways to Glen Valley. I have found PFC somewhat less than friendly. YMMV.

In B.C. we have interesting terrain, but the winter weather in the Lower Mainland isn't always flying-friendly.

The vast majority of flying instructors are teaching to build hours for airline jobs. They are not teaching because they like teaching.

...laura

[utczulugmt]

I would recommend figuring out where you want to live in Canada, and then going to a school nearby.
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I think the above may very well be the best approach. My initial "ideal" location to live was (and still is downtown Toronto), but I could not really find any schools in the Toronto area. I only came across Toronto Airways, which looks really nice at their website...but the reviews here on AVCanada didn't seem so good. In fact, that is how I even ended up in the BC area (the reviews on AVCanada for Langely Flight School looked great, so I started looking further in the BC area).

...No school on the west coast will rip you off, except perhaps one beginning with the letter A. From what you're saying, it sounds like Vancouver or Victoria might be ideal if you can find some affordable accommodation. If you buy a car you can commute from somewhere like Duncan to Victoria and live cheaply.

I think Michael P works at Glacier Air in Squamish, which has a lot of good reviews.
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When you say "west coast," what regions are you referring to? My understanding (according to wiki) is: Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba and Saskatchewan

I have taken a look at Glacier Air in Squamish, they seem similar to Cornwall Aviation, in terms of location, like they a located in a remote area. This in itself isn't really an issue, but now I have to consider how accessible accommodation and (public) transportation to/from school is.

According to ATAC (Air Transport Association of Canada), this is a list of the training facilities in Canada (including the "Western Canada Region"):

Air Transport Association of Canada - Flight Training Facilities


I assume the list only shows facilities that are a member of the ATAC (for example, I do not see Langley, SAL, Cornwall listed).

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6 to 9 months isn't that long a period of time, in the grand scheme of things. You can always drive into the big city to do whatever. Far better, IMO, to get stuck in at a school and immerse yourself in the flight training. Worry about 'civilization' later. Also, there's a pretty good chance, if you start your career in Canada that you ar going to get your first job in a place a lot further than one hour from a big city...

I think this is indeed a good point.

Please don't make the mistake of equating "British Columbia" with the southwestern corner of the province.

All flight schools teach the same syllabus, and you will be tested to the same standards, both as set by Transport Canada.

Langley Flying School taught me to fly. They are friendly, and Langley Airport is adjacent to Glen Valley. The main runway at Langley is tiny, so you learn stabilized approaches early. Their fleet of airplanes is modest (four Cherokee 140s, a 152 and a Seneca), and aircraft availability was occasionally an issue.

I've done some follow-on flying with Pacific Flying Club. They have a substantial fleet of 152s and 172s and a couple of Senecas. Boundary Bay is a spiffy airport with nice long runways, but it's sometimes too busy for its own good, and it's a ways to Glen Valley. I have found PFC somewhat less than friendly. YMMV.

In B.C. we have interesting terrain, but the winter weather in the Lower Mainland isn't always flying-friendly.

The vast majority of flying instructors are teaching to build hours for airline jobs. They are not teaching because they like teaching.

...laura

Thanks for sharing your experience with Langley and Pacific Flying. When I "discovered" Langely FS (via my googling), what struck me about them was how MUCH information they provided about the various courses they teach. In fact, currently, I am using the course info. details at their site as a "reference point" to compare the other schools.

"The vast majority of flying instructors are teaching to build hours for airline jobs." <---- This is one of the things I am trying very much to avoid. The AVCanada reviews for Langley FS suggested that instructors (at Langley FS) are actually interested in teaching you how to be a pilot, not just pass an exam.

I am starting to take a further look at other schools also, I am now looking at:

SkyQuest Aviation (Langley, British Columbia)
Mitchinson Flight Centre (Saskatoon, Saskatchewan)
GFT AeroSpace (Gander, Newfoundland and Labrador)
Regina Flying Club (Regina, Saskatchewan)

I initially overlooked SkyQuest Aviation because of what I thought was too much money for their CPL course ($24,232.43), compared to Langley which was $11,065.00. The difference, however, is accounted for in the number of "time building hours" in the SeaQuest CPL course. I have since noticed that different schools outline their courses differently (specifically the course content and the course cost...this can be very confusing to someone like me, a beginner).

[lhalliday]

Nobody can quote a flat rate for flight training, because everybody requires a different amount of time to be proficient. The numbers schools quote are based on Transport Canada's minimum hours.

Langley's numbers are PPL -> CPL. Skyquests's sound like Warm Body -> CPL (link broken...).

If at all possible visit some schools and talk to them. You're spending five figures, and a bit of field research isn't unreasonable. Go for a fam flight. See what you think. I still remember the instructor pointing and telling me "See that bridge? Fly us there. You have control..."

...laura

[utczulugmt]

Nobody can quote a flat rate for flight training, because everybody requires a different amount of time to be proficient. The numbers schools quote are based on Transport Canada's minimum hours.

Langley's numbers are PPL -> CPL. Skyquests's sound like Warm Body -> CPL (link broken...).

If at all possible visit some schools and talk to them. You're spending five figures, and a bit of field research isn't unreasonable. Go for a fam flight. See what you think. I still remember the instructor pointing and telling me "See that bridge? Fly us there. You have control..."

...laura

Yes, I didn't realise at the time how the hours were broken down. Now I understand (or have a better understanding). What I see most other schools quote for their CPL course, is a price of say $11k to $15k (this is usually for about 65hrs, including ~5 sim hrs), and then indicate separately that you will require additional time building hrs (plus your PPL hrs) to make to 200hrs for the CPL licence. The time building hrs is usually in the form of some additional ratings, etc. I didn't realise this when I was looking at the SkyQuest (now I know though), all I saw was the ~$10K difference in price.


If I subtract the 75hrs of time building hrs (at a cost of $10,050.00) from SkyQuest CPL total cost (of $24,232.43), the cost would now be ~$14,182.43. I would then need to make up that 75hrs somewhere else (in the form of ratings, etc).

SkyQuest CPL course

Langley FS CPL course

[CpnCrunch]

My initial "ideal" location to live was (and still is downtown Toronto), but I could not really find any schools in the Toronto area. I only came across Toronto Airways, which looks really nice at their website...but the reviews here on AVCanada didn't seem so good.

Did you see Island Air? They are based in downtown Toronto. photofly might be able to give you some info on them, as he flies around there.

When you say "west coast," what regions are you referring to? My understanding (according to wiki) is: Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba and Saskatchewan

"West coast" generally means the lower mainland, sunshine coast, and Vancouver Island. Your definition is referring to "Western Canada".

"The vast majority of flying instructors are teaching to build hours for airline jobs." <---- This is one of the things I am trying very much to avoid. The AVCanada reviews for Langley FS suggested that instructors (at Langley FS) are actually interested in teaching you how to be a pilot, not just pass an exam.

To be honest I wouldn't worry too much about that. I think any instructor you get for your PPL will be a time builder, unless you are very lucky or go to a small school that has career instructors. It shouldn't really be a big deal. Certainly do fly with more experienced instructors sometimes, as you will learn a lot from them.

[Rookie50]

I wouldn't worry too much about the controlled airspace thing - it sounds more intimidating than it is. Most schools will be within an hour of controlled airspace so that you can get your control tower fix that way.
6 to 9 months isn't that long a period of time, in the grand scheme of things. You can always drive into the big city to do whatever. Far better, IMO, to get stuck in at a school and immerse yourself in the flight training. Worry about 'civilization' later. Also, there's a pretty good chance, if you start your career in Canada that you ar going to get your first job in a place a lot further than one hour from a big city...

This is excellent advice.

From my impressions Harvs air is solid, Cornwall has a solid reputation, and I have a lot of experience with Waterloo Wellington outside Toronto, who are also solid with a fine fleet.

All would cost much less than Toronto or Vancouver, all things considered.

Cornwall is one hour from Montreal, for things to do outside training.

Immerse yourself, and get lots of short runway and uncontrolled experience. Controlled is easy to fit in.

Cost them out, Google the communities, ask each school about housing, ect. (They will help set up)

My $0.02.

[NunavutPA-12]

I've trained at the Victoria Flying Club, but that was a few decades ago. The controlled airspace was not a problem, at least it wasn't in those days

I also trained at Vernon, in interior British Columbia, which has decent weather year-round, and a Transport Canada office just down the highway.

But my vote would be for Harv's, which was my last training venue. Good weather, nice people, relaxed training environment, and they train a lot of non-Canadians. The living is cheaper in southern Manitoba than in most parts of B.C.

Southern Ontario (Peterborough) was another place I've trained. Best to decide where you'd like to live during your training, as there are good flight schools everywhere.

You have some research ahead of you!

[utczulugmt]

My initial "ideal" location to live was (and still is downtown Toronto), but I could not really find any schools in the Toronto area. I only came across Toronto Airways, which looks really nice at their website...but the reviews here on AVCanada didn't seem so good.

Did you see Island Air? They are based in downtown Toronto. photofly might be able to give you some info on them, as he flies around there.
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I have looked at their website but based on what their website looks like I didn't really take them seriously, they just didn't really seem like a serious/professional school. Also, I was unable to find much info./reviews here on AVCanada about them and I noticed they don't seem to offer CPL or Instructor training (I would not yet be considering Instructor rating, but I look more favourably on a school that offers the full gamut of training/rating).

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"West coast" generally means the lower mainland, sunshine coast, and Vancouver Island. Your definition is referring to "Western Canada".
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Thanks for clarifying that.

I wouldn't worry too much about the controlled airspace thing - it sounds more intimidating than it is. Most schools will be within an hour of controlled airspace so that you can get your control tower fix that way.
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From my impressions Harvs air is solid, Cornwall has a solid reputation, and I have a lot of experience with Waterloo Wellington outside Toronto, who are also solid with a fine fleet.
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My $0.02.

I will take a closer look at Harvs and Cornwall. Suitable accomodation and transportaion were/are my major concerns with Harvs and especially Cornwall.

Didn't know of Waterloo Wellington, I will look at them.

Thanks very much for your (more than) 2 cents.

I've trained at the Victoria Flying Club, but that was a few decades ago. The controlled airspace was not a problem, at least it wasn't in those days

I also trained at Vernon, in interior British Columbia, which has decent weather year-round, and a Transport Canada office just down the highway.

But my vote would be for Harv's, which was my last training venue. Good weather, nice people, relaxed training environment, and they train a lot of non-Canadians. The living is cheaper in southern Manitoba than in most parts of B.C.
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Thanks for all the info., I was looking at Vernon Flying Club, but it appaears thy do not actually offer flight training, flight training is offered by Full Moon Air Services.

[utczulugmt]

Some more information/clarification about what I would be looking for:



I am looking to pursue PPL training leading to CPL training with the various ratings (at least Night Rating, VFR Over-The-Top, Multi Engine Rating, Instrument Rating, etc). Prior to starting the training, I am planning to have a heads-up on the training/expectations by doing online ground school (at PilotTraining.ca) before actually starting any program/course at a flight school.

I was targeting a "Professional Pilot Program," done in a modular format, something similar to what is offered here:

(a) Harvs - Professional Pilot Program
(b) Langely FS - Professional Pilot Program
(c) Mitchinson Fligh Center - Professional Pilot Program

The reason I like the above programs is that programs are laid out "end to end" and I can see and have an idea of the overall cost. I don't know anything about the actual schools apart from what is on their site and what is on AVCanada.

The other major reason I am looking at (these) "Professional Pilot Programs" is that the program structure/description suggest that I could complete the program in about 6-9 months assuming I am training full time. My intention is to indeed train/study/fly full time (at least Monday to Friday), I would also be available on Saturday and Sunday if the school can facilitate me.

The training must be structured in a modular format such that if necessary I could exit after completing a module (let's say I decide I no longer want to learn to fly and as such I want to exit after completing the PPL module).

Note that the program does not have to be a so-called "Professional Pilot Program," it just needs to be modular such that I can do PPL training leading to CPL training with the various ratings (at least Night Rating, Multi Engine Rating, Instrument Rating).


I am available to consider training anywhere in Canada, be it in a remote/in-the-middle-of-nowhere or city/urban location. Generally, though I prefer city/urban location, but I am flexible. My ability to live in remote/in-the-middle-of-nowhere locations is based on the fact that I am wanting/hoping/expecting to complete the "program" in 6-9 months (ideally 6 months). The less time I take to complete the program, the less direct cost-of-living cost I will incur as a result of pursuing the program.

These are the major things I have to take into consideration:

[1] Cost of the program/course, what I have come to realize is that the pricing of the program/course for the various schools will pretty much add up to be about the same. Any financial savings to be had would likely be in terms of cost of living at the location.

[2] The weather at the training location, specifically, how many flying/training days throughout a 6-9 month period I would likely lose due to poor weather, this would affect the approximate completion time of the program/course, a longer completion time would mean greater cost-of-living costs being incurred by me.

[3] How easy is it is to find suitable accommodation wherever I am pursuing training.

[4] How easy is it to commute to and from school: Access to reliable public transportation between accommodation and school. Or, accommodation should be in walking distance to the school (I recognize that this is very unlikely). I will not be buying a car, purchasing a car is just not possible for me.

[5] Cost of living: i.e. rent, utilities, food, transportation, etc

[6] General local lifestyle in the community where I am training/living. This is the last and the least item, since regardless of where I am I would only intend/plan to be there for about 6-9 months (though I can help but feeling thinking that 6-9 months in a remote location may feel more like 12-18 months, but at least I would likely be flying on a daily basis).

[digits_]

Hi utczulugmt,

check your pm.

Regards,
digits

[CpnCrunch]

It sounds like you have done a lot of research! Here are a few more suggestions based on your replies:

- Don't discount a school with a crappy website. Flight schools are in the business of flight training, not web design.
- From what you say, my first choice suggestion would be Harv's air, as it ticks all your boxes (except perhaps lifestyle) and will likely be the cheapest. They also have an excellent reputation.
- Give the schools a call and talk to them! I emailed Harv's a while ago about one of their courses, and Adam emailed me back pretty quickly. He also posts on this forum occasionally. Both of those are good signs, showing that they care about their customers. I'm sure they'll have more concrete info about finding a place to live, etc.

While Winnipeg wouldn't be my first choice to live in, it's not going to kill you living there for 9 months. There's a lot of fishing and other outdoor activities.