RMC OC looking for flight training advice.

[aircadetblondie]

Hi everyone,

I'm not sure if this is the right forum to ask, but I am a RMC Officer Cadet thinking about getting some flight training at the weekends. Would this be a good idea before I start my military flight training?

I am keen to go fighters and want to prepare myself as best I can for the selection.

Thanks (:

[gwagen]

Absolutely, previous flying experience is an asset that will let you advance faster than your comrades.

Some might tell you you won't be trained the way the military wants you to be. Nonsense. You can pickup the differences when you get there.

If you are at RMC in Kingston, I strongly suggest Fly Kingston. The CFI is retired airforce, very professional he will set you well on your way above your class mates.

Plus you'll have some fun on the side.

PM me for more details and contact info.

[Gannet167]

Yes and no. Many students come to 2CFFTS with previous flying experience and they really don't stand out against their peers who have zero flying experience prior to PFT. You'd think that more time in the aircraft is advantageous, but in reality it doesn't always play out that way. If anything, it would appear the guys with 2000 hours and multi-IFR quals are some of the worst performing students.

Work ethic, capacity to learn, innate hands and feet (often seems to be linked to participation in sports), an organized and focused approach analyzing and improving performance, chair flying and extreme levels of pre-flight preparation are really the ticket. It's common for a student who has never touched an aircraft before PFT - which is really a selection course and not a training course - to absolutely excel. It's very common for pilots with a fair amount of experience to perform really poorly and it's not uncommon for them to fail. A common lament given to new students with fairly significant aviation resumes is to "lose the baggage" and learn to fly the school's way. In some ways, this is proof of the training in that it levels the playing field - with prior experience not really being a significant advantage.

Having said that, I wouldn't call a few introductory lessons a complete waste. Time in the plane should help with air sickness - which most students experience to some level in their first few flights. It provides some exposure to the basic concepts that will become critical as you progress. Realize that the training a civilian flight school will provide in a Cessna aircraft is very different in the way maneuvers are flown, the level of performance, the culture of how training is conducted and the expectations of you as a "client" vs "student pilot" in the military system. The skills you're going to pickup in a few hours of Cessna work will only be relevant for the first few flights in the Harvard, after which you'll be in new territory.

Anecdotally, student pilots with experience seem to feel that they understand things and take it a little easy. For example, some seem to think since they've flown a circuit in the Cessna, the Harvard can't be much more complex. But they are worlds apart and often students who think they know a little about flying are rudely awakened. Meanwhile, the innocent and wet behind the ears newbie who works his/her a@@ off like their life depends on it, is the top student on course.

Take what you can from the exposure to flying. But be very flexible and open minded when you get to Moose Jaw, be prepared to re-learn everything and don't assume you understand how to play the game because you've seen something before in a 172 - assuming the 200 hour wonder teaching you in the 172 even taught you correctly.

[trampbike]

Absolutely, previous flying experience is an asset that will let you advance faster than your comrades.

Some might tell you you won't be trained the way the military wants you to be. Nonsense. You can pickup the differences when you get there.

If you are at RMC in Kingston, I strongly suggest Fly Kingston. The CFI is retired airforce, very professional he will set you well on your way above your class mates.

Plus you'll have some fun on the side.

PM me for more details and contact info.

(emphasized passages by me)
I suspect some financial incentives are involved here.
I highly doubt you ever flew in the military or have any clue what the military flight training is like. The bolded passages don't jive with me at all.

To the OP: what Gannet167 wrote is on point. My advice is to go through civilian flying for fun only. If you approach it that way, it won't hurt you (and it can be a lot of fun indeed). The biggest quality a student pilot can have is not previous flying experience, it's self-awareness and motivation.

Cheers!

[gwagen]

Absolutely, previous flying experience is an asset that will let you advance faster than your comrades.

Some might tell you you won't be trained the way the military wants you to be. Nonsense. You can pickup the differences when you get there.

If you are at RMC in Kingston, I strongly suggest Fly Kingston. The CFI is retired airforce, very professional he will set you well on your way above your class mates.

Plus you'll have some fun on the side.

PM me for more details and contact info.

(emphasized passages by me)
I suspect some financial incentives are involved here.
I highly doubt you ever flew in the military or have any clue what the military flight training is like. The bolded passages don't jive with me at all.

To the OP: what Gannet167 wrote is on point. My advice is to go through civilian flying for fun only. If you approach it that way, it won't hurt you (and it can be a lot of fun indeed). The biggest quality a student pilot can have is not previous flying experience, it's self-awareness and motivation.

Cheers!

Absolutely correct, no military experience on my part.

That said I've a few friends active in different branches of the forces, I'm a little closer to it than the average joe.

I have absolutely no dog in this fight, my money, hard earned as it is, has ZERO to do with aviation and I don't appreciate the insinuations.

I only suggest it would be a benefit to the right person.

Clearly this cadet is motivated to achieve his goals and I believe most cadets are disciplined enough and well motivated to benefit from flight training outside of the military.

I appreciate both your view points and agree with some of it, but you can't use catchalls to lump everyone together.

I'm looking at this one specific person in one specific location asking for advice.

As mentioned I've no interest in this beyond seeing the cadet achieve his goals.

I suggested a local FTU and Instructor as local knowledge allowed me to provide it.

The CFI being a retired military aviator, I'm sure would know what's expected and could hold him to higher standards the CF is looking for.

Oh and as a final aside. RMC is currently developing a program to get cadets trained at private FTU's while still in college, it's near finalization from what I understand.

So there's that.

Anyways, good luck to the cadet however you proceed.

[ThatArmyGuy]

If anything, it would appear the guys with 2000 hours and multi-IFR quals are some of the worst performing students.

So the AF no longer offers those with a licence to skip PFT? Or is this an inaccurate assumption?

To the OP: Give me a beer.

[target]

When I went through those with zero flight time failed 90% of the time. That was the early eighties, those with more than 10 hours of instruction where closer to 50%. It was an extension of the selection process. Shortly there after you needed a PPL to get into pilot training.
My understanding is that there are professional pilot instructors at PFT, and zero time candidates are have much better success.
Investing in a couple hours of flight instruction can only help and is how I've advised my son.
Best of luck, enjoy!

[Gannet167]

The training system is vastly different from what it was 20 years ago.

Investing in a couple hours of flight instruction can only help

Not necessarily. If it's quality training and teaches some of the correct attitudes toward training, it could be good but I wouldn't spend much time. However, a lot of de-programming occurs on some students to remove bad habits or convince them that they way they learned something is not the one and only correct way.

PFT is a selection course and to some extent always has been. It's not about training, it's about evaluating if you're able to proceed to the next stage. Mainly, students at PFT need to demonstrate that they fit into the regimented format of the training system and can learn on the curve. It's a big test in playing the game. Basic flight training, or Phase 2, is where the real teaching begins.

PFT is largely staffed by civilian instructors, most of them with no military experience. At times, their assessment of a candidate's potential hasn't been exactly in tune with how the military system works. Some students have failed PFT, repeated the course and gone on to be extremely successful in the military training system. The opposite is also true.

Students with a commercial licence are often bypassed PFT, as it is not a good predictor of success in MJ for people with that much experience. PFT measures learning performance from a low level starting point. Experienced commercial pilots generally have no problem with it, so there's little learning curve for them to advance along and even if they're weak - they do just fine. Once those PFT bypass students get to MJ, they are no further ahead than a candidate who joined with zero experience.

[B208]

Civilian flight training will help you once you get started in your military flight training. Things like situational awareness and attitude flying transfer well. Just understand that procedures, (at least VFR ones), differ. IFR procedures share a lot of commonality. While there have been high time ATPLs that have failed out, it is rare. Most of the guys my vintage who had previous flying experience did quite well.

[Kitzbuhel]

If anything, it would appear the guys with 2000 hours and multi-IFR quals are some of the worst performing students.

So the AF no longer offers those with a licence to skip PFT? Or is this an inaccurate assumption?

If you have a CPL you can skip PFT in Portage.

[7ECA]

So the RCAF does then accept civilian pilots. Interesting, a while back I spoke to someone at a recruitment centre, who told me the air force does not accept civilian pilots.

[AuxBatOn]

So the RCAF does then accept civilian pilots. Interesting, a while back I spoke to someone at a recruitment centre, who told me the air force does not accept civilian pilots.

You may have 10,000 hrs, none of that experience will get you any qualification. The most you'll get is a PFT by-pass. In that sense, we don't take civilian pilots. Other than that, anybody can apply to be a military pilot.